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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of? (Read 36542 times)
Alan McDougall
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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
May 14th, 2008 at 2:11pm
 
Numbers Chapter 31?

I have great difficulty in rationalizing this chapter with a concept of a good loving God as depictured by the lord Jesus Christ. Someone help me please! The bible states that God is the same, yesterday, tomorrow and forever. This does not seem to be the case if one analyses and compares the awful chapter 31 of the book on Numbers, in relation to the loving, forgiving, Father God, that the Lord Jesus presented in the four gospels. Answer this and I will be able to press on. Note I do not have much time left. I am so tired and weary now!

1)      Verse: 2 the Lord said to Moses take vengeance on the Midianites. In direct contrast, Jesus said, forgive those who hate you and despitefully use you. It is easy to love those that love you, but I say love those that hate you. Vengeance is mine said the lord I will recompense. However, here God appears to go against his own word and commands Moses to take vengeance.

2)      Verses: 3- 6 Make war and kill said the lord. This is a direct contradiction to Gods own commandment. Thou shalt not kill. Jesus said if a man strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer him the other and not to violence.

3)      Verses: 6-13 here the armies of Israel go out and destroy, spoil, burn and steal and plunder on Gods command. In addition, they slaughter all the adult males however; this is not sufficient bloodletting slaughter to please Moses or God as we read from verse 14. In contrast, Jesus said he that lives by the sword would die by the sword. The soldiers apparently somewhat kinder and merciful than Moses spared the woman and children much to Mosses disappointment and anger

4)      Verse: 14 Moses was wroth (angry) with the officers. Why? Because they had not slaughtered THE WHOLE LOT, WOMAN, CHILDREN, like they had done to the adult males. So what is sweet kind merciful Moses proposal? Verse: 15, He says now murder all the “LITTLE BOYS”. In ABSOLUTE contrast Jesus said blessed are the little children for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

For goodness sake is this the same merciful loving God depicted by Jesus. No this horrific story does not end yet. Moses goes on saying.” KILL ALL THE WOMAN” except those that have not had sex with a man. How on earth in those remote primitive days were the soldiers to know which woman was a virgin and which were not. There was definitely no gynecologist way back in 300O B.C. WERE THERE?  So to me they must on Moses command raped all the woman first and then murdered those who were not virgins. Why was it necessary to rape them all? Because a woman’s age does not necessarily indicate whether a woman is a virgin or not.

5)      Now if any learned rational bible scholar can tell me that this is the same father God that is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever, I am all eyes and ears waiting for a logical explanation. You know if one takes out the title God and Moses and replaces them with Hitler and Rudolf Hess, no one would question that it was the work of the evil Hitler regime. Would they?
     Alan McDougall 13/7/2007

any comments?
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betson
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #1 - May 14th, 2008 at 9:41pm
 
Greetings,

Possibilities, but not from a biblical scholar:

Moses has the starring role in Numbers 31, and he also wrote it!   Even such a God-chosen good person may be be a bit self-serving sometimes.

Death is no big deal to God. He knows it's only temporary. He could speak of it in brutal terms because peoples' lives were more brutal then.

God knew what He needed to have happen in order that His plan unfold. He used whatever means were necessary for those times. He uses whatever means are currently  necessary too; we just don't have a Moses to record the instructions.

Huh
Bets






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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #2 - May 15th, 2008 at 1:12am
 
Bets,

Nice reply  have often wondered how much of what was supposed to have happened was JUST OLD MOSES DOING HIS OWN THING

love

alan
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LaffingRain
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #3 - May 15th, 2008 at 2:25pm
 
hmm Alan..I'm not a bible scholar either. I just memorized in my soul things JC said which rang true for me.  the people in the bible were the current scribes of the times..hopefully mankind is not as brutal as they once were.
I guess if you look at it another way, Earth is a warring planet. I assume if Earth is a warring planet, then there must be other planets where war is not a consideration. just unthinkable.

so if u say u haven't much time left Alan and you are weary and tired, I can say the same about myself. I would like to make a proposal: can I meet you someday in the hereafter on a peaceful planet?

I would love to have tea and crumpets with my brother.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #4 - May 15th, 2008 at 2:29pm
 
This kind of contrast, Alan, is one which disturbs me the most, and I am not certain that it can be explained so simply as we would like. Is it possible that "God" has a dark side too? And, if so, might we be able to forgive this God? Might even God require our forgiveness, along with our love, for everything that is beyond our ability to understand?

I would like to consider this thought for a while.

love, b
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2008 at 3:05pm
 
Quote:
This kind of contrast, Alan, is one which disturbs me the most, and I am not certain that it can be explained so simply as we would like. Is it possible that "God" has a dark side too? And, if so, might we be able to forgive this God? Might even God require our forgiveness, along with our love, for everything that is beyond our ability to understand?

I would like to consider this thought for a while.

love, b


Hi Blink I could share my beliefs and faith I have. It's an honest question. God does not have a dark side. Being spirit we take a physical body, and with this physical walk through matter, it is necessary to take and build an ego. We join in with the collective area and we are told to learn all about the world and how to behave ourselves according to the collective social rules.

It is the ego which is dark. It is generally wanting to add unto itself and grow more powerful.
the ego is not who we really are. In our essence we are spirit, we are love.

we come to the world to essentially view the contrast and discover our true selves once more through struggle, pain and suffering is sometimes our journey. Other lives, a life of ease may not yield up much in the way of a fruit of the soul to return to our wider disc, or level of afterlife station, which is the before life station he same. our true home is not here. we are on a journey, in a movie. Death is not real, that's why I say movie.

There comes a time when the ego begins to die off, as it is seen for what it is, a self image that can never be satisfied, though it may have fame and fortune, the real satisfaction is knowing who you really are, and in this knowing, one with god, with all that is, pain and suffering, struggle and strife cease as you understand the ego is the one to make this suffering, and also the ego will tell you suffering is necessary.
It is not necessary and all suffering ceases when you know that you are love, which is the love of the father also, God, the force, Atman, The Buddhic nature, we have so many names for higher self, it's all the same.

It's in our hands to choose love because we wanted to be here, to experience a physical honing process, and then coming back to this particular dimension is a choice for the soul, or to go onto plan other vistas "to be" existing within.
Free will means being able to choose our reality. It's easier to do it together than singly because the ego can be a vicious guard of it's spoils. Yet PUL can sweep the ego away into the dust and nothingness which it really is.
Here, I view life as we all wear these masks at a costume party. In the afterlife we have no mask on the higher levels, and getting home, we often say, wow, I thought that life was Real!

It's not real here. everybody is telling a big lie believing they are not this love essence, or they are screaming give me some love from others.
sometimes u can give them what they need, other times you have to walk away and pray for them. then what's really amazing, is prayer works!
two voices in the head, one speaks first; the ego, the softer voice is our connection to God, creative thought. Most often, but it's changing, we can't tell the difference between the ego and the spirit speaking. yet we have assistance nowdays in greater measure, because we have to be able to tell which is the voice of love, and which is the voice of the self serving ego.

Lucifer, the fallen angel, I believe is a symbol for man's ego having come to Earth. Now, the good news is I have a good report I trust that Lucifer has returned home! lol!
which means the ego has no more power in and of itself to block our visions of cummuning with those beings who are now ascended and which I call spirit.

hope that helps...our words though, are twice removed from our certain reality to all knowledge.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #6 - May 15th, 2008 at 4:27pm
 
Well Alan,

I am starting to wonder if I am on the wrong site.  I have been into TMI for more years than I care to mention.  I have been listening to Bob Monroe's Gateway cd's again, reading Bruce Moen's books again.  I have ordered Moen's new book and cd's and am still into wanting more direct knowledge and wanting to help in retrievals just because I want to. 
I have been under the impression that the belief system territories were for people stuck in belief systems whether they think they are positive beliefs or negative beliefs.
I have been hearing the christian bible quoted and treated as if it is the true word of god.  I am hearing many talking about JC as if he is supposed to be my lord.  Then I hear about Christ consciousness or what I have come to see as a new-age christianity.
Much of the world does not believe in this and they have their own beliefs which are for me just that, beliefs.
I do believe in LOVE and so do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and you did ask the question about the christian bible so I will say that there are many who do not accept this book as authentic.
So, if this is a christian site, can someone please let me know and I will move along.  Thank you and much, much love to all,  SHSS
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #7 - May 15th, 2008 at 5:44pm
 
SHSS, this is not a "Christian" site but, rather, an "exploration" site, but I understand your hesitation. All ideas, belief systems and experiences are open here for discussion, and we have varying degrees of success in discussing these ideas peacefully with each other, because they quite naturally bring up emotions for people from time to time.

The beliefs that influence me change from day to day, and I am becoming more open to that, as a way of being. It's not always easy to be open, for me.

Basically, personal experiences are accepted here, from any belief system. We all come from somewhere, so I guess we come together with whatever is in our basket, and try to feed ourselves and each other. Yes, that is a Christian image: Jesus sharing the fish and the bread with the multitudes, stretching out a little to feed a crowd.

I wonder if the fish or the bread looked different to each person in the crowd?

I like to think about things like that....


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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #8 - May 15th, 2008 at 6:24pm
 
oh I hope u stay SHSS, I was hoping for more TMI visitors for years!

btw, this is just a room where Alan started a subject..it's under the title of Religions and their beliefs; so it's own room..not to represent what the entire board is about.

of course these are all beliefs, no more, no less. Alan has labeled himself as Christian mystic because he's comfortable with that.
my own labels is that I wear them all like a costume because I believe we are all one in spirit. I do believe there are many ascended masters, not just JC.

when you see the word PUL, it stands for pure, unconditional love, and in my own mind I liken it to perfect love, which I liken to the fellowship of JC.
also perfect love can be likened to Christ Love.

Religion in the future will change into something more universally understood as do unto others as you would like to be done to you...that sort of philosophy might go far!

so I continue to welcome you here whatever you decide and would like to hear about any experiences you had at TMI or otherwise...

ps: Alan is going thru a hard time right now; aren't we all?
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #9 - May 15th, 2008 at 7:12pm
 
Thanks Blink and LaffingRain.  I did not mean to imply that I have been to the Monroe Institute.  I know someone who has and so I have all the cd's and books I can buy and have been exploring on my own for many years.  Sorry.  PUL

I am going to shut up about religion, just wanted to answer.

PUL, got a new word,
SHSS  Kiss
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #10 - May 15th, 2008 at 11:46pm
 
Hello guys

Thanks for the responses.

Alysia I take you up of your offer for tea and crumpets in the hereafter. Can I invite Bets, Blink and SHSSS?

SHSS If you go back and read my posts you will see I am absolutely not stuck in any belief system and indeed despise anything exclusive such as the many cults that poison society today.

Blink

Yes, you are not the only one disturbed by this apparent contrast and it makes me wonder how much of the bible is truly relevant to us today. God seems from a scriptural viewpoint (not my own) to have a dark side as per Isaiah 45 indicates

Isa 45:7      I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all

Alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #11 - May 16th, 2008 at 6:01am
 
Hi Alan,

Yes, if there is anything I have learned since the internet came out is how easy it is to misunderstand and to be misunderstood in an email or post.
I would love to take you up on the tea and crumpets.  Thank you.   Maybe we can have a good old party soon and celebrate having graduated this game.
I personally believe that ALL is ALL and as you mentioned-in your way-Yahweh is both the light and the darkness.
You know when you get into some focuses where you cannot compare things.  Like, how can you tell if something is big if there is no small.  How can you tell if something is hot etc.  without something to compare it to.  How can you tell what is good or healthy if there is no contrast?  This is why I cannot understand how some say especially now-a-days that we can get rid of all black for example.  I think it would be great to rest in loving white for some no-time, but then after trillions of non-years, it might get boring.
And then we might go out looking for some trouble to get into again.

PUL
SHSS  Kiss
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #12 - May 16th, 2008 at 8:26am
 
SHSS,

You are wise maybe wiser than you know. (The highlighted part of my previous post was from the bible not me)

Quote:
How can you tell if something is hot etc.  without something to compare it to.  How can you tell what is good or healthy if there is no contrast?  This is why I cannot understand how some say especially now-a-days that we can get rid of all black for example.  I think it would be great to rest in loving white for some no-time, but then after trillions of non-years, it might get boring.
And then we might go out looking for some trouble to get into again.


This is exactly what I believe, if we existed forever in a state of everlasting bliss and peace we would simply not know it and after a billions and zillions of googolplex years, "Man/Girl"!!!!. we would be bored with this endless, ceaseless unchangining existence.

regards

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #13 - May 16th, 2008 at 2:19pm
 
well ha! you two, I'm going to go be a mermaid somewhere after this life...I wouldn't want to get bored after all... Cheesy
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #14 - May 16th, 2008 at 4:02pm
 
Of course Alan, you are just talking of a book. No more, no less. Its just a book. The Bible is so full of hate and power. Smote, kill, destroy, rape,.....(I wonder if those who wrote it has little man syndrome?)I remember the first time i read Treasure Island. It did change me somewhat inside. Of course, it was just a book. It was a far better read than the Bible to me. Both were wrote to invoke emotion. Both very successful. I still prefer treasure Island.
Joe
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