The link is to a site called, "Kill The Afterlife".

http://killtheafterlife.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html

I thought it would be interesting to see what some of the opinions here in this forum would be with regard to KTA.


Desert

My view on this Desert is fairly well summarised by Nanner's tag line:  A samurai once asked Zen Master Hakuin where he would go after he died. Hakuin answered "How am I supposed to know?"
"How do you know? You're a Zen master!" exclaimed the samurai. "Yes, but not a dead one", Hakuin answered.

We don't in truth know for sure, although I can certainly say that I've had enough personal and other  experience involving communication from people that are dead to leave me convinced that there's probably something that continues after death. Convinced enough anyway that I'd be acting irrationally  to dismiss the possibility.

I gather that a major objective for Bruce Moen in setting up this site was to provide people with the means to gain such experience for themselves, and so reduce their fear of death and the range of undesirable behaviours that follow from too much of it.

That experience is by definition subjective and not exactly repeatable, and consequently not amenable to proof in the subject/object/impartial observer world view that most of the debunkers inhabit. This whole philosophical system is basically on the ropes as a one size fits all means of explaining reality, or indeed of originating ways of living that lead to happiness though.

A further factor is that our minds seem to be constructed so that if we've reason to prop up a belief then what we perceive tends to do so. If you're a debunker that's what you'll see. Interestingly enough if you're a believer or at least open to the possibility that's also what you see. Leaving it clear that we can't necessarily trust what we perceive either.

Excessively ardent belief in what we can't experientially verify is just another form of grasping, and causes all sorts of problems as outlined yesterday in my post on fear and how we get involved in all sorts of awareness reducing and ultimately suffering producing mind games to avoid it. This ranges from fundamentalists flying aircraft into city buildings to the many in Victorian times who destroyed their own family members for not living up to societal values.

The trouble is that those that make arguments like those on that website spill over into an equally strident tone to that of the religious zealots - suggesting that they too have an equally strongly felt need to convince others and probably themselves too that they are 'right'. You can justify many horrors in a world where subjective mind experience does not matter, and where life ends with death - and have done so already right through the 20th C and earlier.

We've had the discussion on continuation of self unchanged (immortality) versus continuation of attributes here already and mixed views were expressed. My personal take is right down the middle - I can't be certain of any continuity after physical death, but on the other hand it'd be foolish to dismiss all the experience that's around too.

Two things are for sure:

It's not very hard to demolish the arguments he puts up on the website. The fairly basic 'brain as physical interface to consciousness' argument kills off what I read, and even that implies more personal continuity after death than does say a tradition like Buddhism.

Secondly it's unwise to get hung up on or obsessive about the issue, as this brings its own problems. Staying light, open, balanced and firmly in the middle  (living with the groundlessness that uncertainty brings) seems wise no matter how heated the argument becomes...

The guy thinks George Eliot is a man...so the rest of his writing is a bit suspect, I'd say...

(And yes, its the "real" George Eliot...I googled a quote he used, she wrote it...)

Hi Desert. I found u way down here on the threads and decided to put you up to the top due to my large ego must be talking...
I think it's an excellent thread. ironically, it's a question all of humanity is asking, while I sit here complacently in my knowings, other's are running around trying to "up the stakes."

so heres an article which addresses this thread question, in my own way. because nobody believes me, when I say I have lived before. except there are a few friends which have this knowing, or they are open minded and don't shut me down with negativity. thank you all my friends; they probably only number about 12.
so if anyone would like to see what I've written which is pertinent to this thread go to the bottom where my tag is and click on the very top address.

one reason I've backed off here, is I don't want to use up too much cyberspace as it's costly to run this website for Bruce, and I've enjoyed using images with my articles. I can only use them very sparingly here.

the other reason I'm responding here is Desert got me to thinking. I want to show how we effect one another in that dept.  I appreciate what Desert brings here.
he got me to thinking on family relationships as well lover relationships..I mean, what else is there? so I take the relationships and put them together with out of body experiences I've had, as well meditations, as well just plain living from day one. and of course, my beliefs are my own, that we are watched over by guides, and the masters from on high, and the masters are still here among us. my ultimate goal is I look towards a peaceful world and build on that.