Hi all,

New to these boards but have done reading on the afterlife.  Wanted to know if there was more to it then the Christian heaven/hell.   I was raised Catholic.

.  I have read that people choose their families, how they are going to live, die etc before coming here.

I have been feeling awful since reading about the actor Heath Ledgers passing.
It is just hard to fathom someone so young and famous with a lovely family died so tragically.
I find it hard to beleive his soul chose that before coming to earth.. What would be the point? 

I wonder how he felt when he passed... Where is he now?   I wonder if he is sad to leave behind his daughter and family.   

Its just a shame someone so young had to go.  Wondered if anyone tried a retrieval?  I tried but am getting nothing. 

Thanks for listening

That was a really sad story, but one that's not that unusual. I'd say don't mistake fame for happiness. Watching a few over the years you can see it develop - single minded pursuit of their holy grail drawing on a compelling, powerful and attractive persona, a very short period of enjoyment and the the rapid setting in of disillusionment.

Even if these people start out well grounded it's incredibly hard for the ego not to get puffed up by all the  adulation and start losing connection with the stuff that matters in life. Meanwhile a record company or manager or sponsor has a schedule set up to recover their investment/maximise earnings that leaves them exhausted and struggling to stay with the schedule while simultaneously trying to do the real job - train, learn lines, write music, stay married, raise a family or whatever.

The heart connection with your art (whatever it is) in the face of all this struggle is lost  - it stops being fun, stops giving back. The tail starts to wag the dog.

Then the realisation sets in that all these thousands of so called fans that get upset when you don't play ball actually know nothing whatsoever about you, as a result can't actually love you and are living out some selfish ego driven head trip of their own. To the point where it's their agenda that matters, they get angry when you don't fulfil their fantasy. You're a hero now, but quickly you figure they will turn on you and destroy you in a moment if you step outside of what they have determined you must be.

Then you realise that everybody from the groupies upwards regards you as a piece of meat from which they want their slice. All the apparent friendliness and goodwill is actually self interest driven. Nobody sees you as a real person with feeling and needs - you are famous after all and you owe them.

Next thing the anger, resentment and loneliness set in. There's maybe a few shallow enough not to sense the reality or grounded enough to be able to live with it - who somehow through this and fortunate circumstances end up living in this bubble of unreality. But the more sensing, more empathetic seem to come unstuck one after the other.

There's in the end nothing loving about that scene - it's a gilded cage almost wholly driven by selfish and mostly money interests. It's no wonder the so called stars so often turn to drugs, or get immersed in questionable belief systems, or become recluses or whatever.

Perhaps if there's a moral or a reason for it it's about learning to stay grounded and not getting sucked into the ego in the most challenging of circumstances. Or the other side of the same coin - maybe  misuse of that powerful persona in previous lives did harm and generated this sort of karma......

Been thinking about Vajra's post about how people behave like they love famous people but only want a piece of them and don't really care. I don't agree with that, but I have heard many people say that. I know there are a crowd of journalists, media moguls, newscasters, and lots of "fans" out there (and a lot of those people use drugs and alcohol so their feelings are seldom properly accessed anyway) who do completely USE these individuals who have struggled so hard to develop their blazing talent so they can succeed.

It is true to some extent. But I don't think it is nearly as true as the stars themselves and the public are led to believe.

Once, back in 1994, when the ice skater Nancy Kerrigan got hit on the ice by Tonya Harding who wanted her out of the competition, and that whole disgusting plot was exposed, I felt so dreadful for Nancy, and then when she did compete and of course we all were so concerned for her, and she fell just once in her big skate, my heart nearly stopped.

When they interviewed her later, she said with great bitterness, I know you all were just watching HOPING I would fall, she said, her voice full of pain and rage.

Well, I was speechless to hear that from her lips. Let me tell you, when any ice skater falls, I come so close to having a heart attack, I am sure, that when I die it will be from watching ice skating on tv and one of them falls. My whole body goes into such stress reaction when a skater falls, I almost need help myself.

I want to rush out there myself(I can't skate so it would not help) and pick them up and dust them off. But by the time I have thought it, they are up and skating again as though nothing happened, and I never can think how they can learn to do that. It's amazing.

The thing is, too, that at the end of the day, whoever we are, we go home alone and step into our home alone, and if we are lucky and smart, there is someone waiting for us inside that door who is happy to see us, and if we are currently not so lucky, we have to keep ourselves going through a quiet evening...and we have to know we are loved, because love is the chicken soup that heals the trials of life. If we feel lost and unloved, it is a motivating force to drive us to be better and get out further and reach out to others and do things for others so we connect better.

Small or large, famous or not, we all have those same chores every day in life. It's harder when young to have those inner skills in place. Maybe we should be teaching those skills to our young, talented upcoming stars.

The point is, stars often think we don't care but they would be amazed by how many fans really really love them and would give them their last dollar if it would help them get better at something or fix something that is wrong. If anyone out there was around when Elvis was destroying himself, and you knew how to fix him if you could go back in time, are you telling me you wouldn't drop everthing to rush back thirty years and whip him into proper shape?? Of course most of us would. He was worth it!

Well, having said that, I didn't know much about Heath Ledger and I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain because I don't usually rush to see really sad movies, but I would guess to have that much success when young would be hard to deal with. In fact, to have that much talent when that young would be hard to deal with all by itself! I haven't gone in to attempt contact yet because I am full of the cold and can't even think straight, which is probably in evidence from this post. But I will try soon as I pick up energy again.

Hope this was on topic...there is a retrieval in there somewhere, honestly.
Vee

Hi AutumnWind,

I too have been feeling for Heath Ledger's death.  It has touched me more on a personal level as it reminds me very much of my bf's death.  Everything is almost identical.  I'm curious to find out what the toxicology reports says...my bf's came back as toxins in the blood and it was an accidental overdose.

I know it seems hard that a soul can choose something like that when coming to this earth, but I've come to believe it possible.  You ask what would be the point?  I think that's something that only that soul knows, but it has a life changing affect on many souls whom are still living.  And, I think that may be part of the point.  For myself in this situation I learned how deep love is, how short life is and how you just never know.  It has had a deep impact on my relationships with all those I love in my life.  I've learned how silly it is to fight over nonsense things, that you won't even remember in time to come.  I never go to bed angry or upset with anyone.  It has also made me look at the prescription drug world of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications.  And, it has made me want to do something about it.  Heath Ledgers death made me realize that something does need to be done about the way these prescriptions are just handed out like candy.  They have a major affect on the person taking them and an affect on those who love them.  I've seen what they can do and how addicting they can become.  They are not all good and sometimes you don't realize the effect they are having on the person taking them.  When my bf died, I wasn't really talking to him.  I thought that he was on some "street drugs" because of the way he was acting.  He vowed he wasn't and it was the prescriptions he was taking and how he was trying to come off of them, because of the way they were effecting him.  He would slur his words, hallucinate, act out...a lot of different things, and on top he was still very depressed.  Sometime after his death, I found a website it was called quitpaxil.com and I couldn't believe what i was reading.  I then began to see these same affects happening to others I knew who were on this drug and trying to come off.  I was able to be there and help them differently than my bf as I didn't know anything about it with him.

So, although this is a tragic death and seems like it shouldn't be because he was so young and had so much going for him, there is something to be learned and something great that can come out of it.  His sacrifice of his life, could help many others.  The problem is, that a lot of people don't think these drugs can really kill or hurt you, but they do.  The sad part is, that if his toxicology reports come back as toxins in the blood, the prescription medications probably won't be looked at.  It will just be looked at as another sad tragedy and that is what would really make it a sad tragedy.   IMHO anyway if these prescriptions are the only link to his death.

Lea

Wow, Petrus!

What wonderful experience and understanding!

Could you post a thread on 'Evocations' under 'Retrievals'?
Your knowledge of Moen's methods as well as the 'somewhat
more formalized hermetic context' sounds fascinating.
I'm sure many of us would really appreciate hearing more!

Bets

Well, this is by Ernest Dowson, not Churchill, but I think it nicely sums up what we call life.

VITAE SUMMA BREVIS

They are not long, the weeping and the laughter,
Love and desire and hate;
I think they have no portion in us after
We pass the gate.

They are not long, the days of wine and roses:
Out of a misty dream
Our path emerges for a while, then closes
Within a dream.