EternalEssence wrote on Nov 14^th, 2007 at 1:05pm:


  Yup, certainly tis.  May all of our minds and hearts expand, and completely merge while on this great adventure. 

  It was an interesting chat, and thanks.

"Possibly exposure to such materials while growing up?" Possibly Eternal Essence is making an assumption because he doesn't want to seriously consider what Christ is all about.

During my night in heaven experience, despite my previous doubts, I understood at an inner level that was deeper than belief, that the afterlife and God existed, without having to think about it. This understanding was certain. Not only that, I completely understood how it was possible for God and the afterlife to exist, in a manner that was beyond what my pre-existing beliefs were.

This realm wasn't just some mere belief system. It "wasn't" a place that mirrored this physical realm. It was a place where beings abided as one in perfection without body based identities. It was understood that everything worked out perfectly in the end.

Regarding my experience of Christ during this experience, it wasn't a matter of my seeing a being of light and assuming this being was Christ. It wasn't a matter of a spirit appearing to me with the image of Jesus so I would be presented with something my preconceptions would allow me to understand. It wasn't a matter of my asking about Christ and some spirit telling me he's for real simply because this is what I could understand at the time. Rather, there was a knowledge that pervaded the realm I was in, and this knowledge inwardly let me know that Christ is in some way, a big part of human spiritual reality. When I understood this I was quite surprised, because I believed differently at the time. At the end of the experience a bright star was shown to me. I believe this star was "intentionally" shown to confirm that Christ is a significant part of divine reality, because this is what the star immediately represented to me. It makes perfect sense to me that the divine beings who helped me have this experience (I did nothing to cause it to happen), understood what I would take this star to mean. Yet they "chose" to show it to me.

Since this experience I've received a number of messages and have had a number of experiences stating that Christ is a significant part of the divine order that exists. I've received and experienced them in a manner which shows that it isn't a matter of my pre-existing beliefs being placated. They have also been presented to me in a manner that show that my own mind isn't creating them.

Why did I have these experiences while other spiritual seekers haven't? Because I came to the point where I realized it was a big mistake to allow my distaste for fundamentalism to be the deciding factor when it comes to figuring out what Christ is all about. I opened my heart and mind to the question of Christ with sincerity, and received numerous answers.

My feeling is that Christ isn't going to force himself on anybody. If a person chooses to have unwarrented prejudices against him, that is such a person's choice. My suggestion is that a person doesn't allow the fundamentalist ideas of others, to hold he or she hostage for the rest of his or her life. Once a person lets go of such limiting ideas, he or she will find that some energetic blocks within his or her heart chakra etc will be cleared away.

Eternal Essence:
Why is it you're so quick to defend various sources of information, but as soon as somebody mentions having experiences with Christ, you assume he or she dabling with a belief system?


[quote author=EternalEssence link=1194364896/0#14 date=1195059949]
How is it that Recoverer an atheist at the time, and certainly not a Christian by any means, would nonphysically pick up such clear, deeply knowing at a core level, and convincing (to him) info that Christ is a large part of God's plans?. Possibly exposure to such materials growing up. Obviously being an atheist, one must accept the idea that there is no "God" thus the concept of God must be understood, absorbed, intellectually rationalized. I won't speak about another person's experience. How exactly does one go about believing in the nonexistence of something that doesn't exist to be not believed in?

Eternal Essence:

Your response reminds me of the below dialogue with Bruce. Bruce didn't write specifically about the kind of experiences I shared, but I believe what he wrote still applies. Cynics aren't in a good position to invalidate the experiences of others according to their limited ways of judging them. They could find out for themselves, if they are willing.

Why do I press this issue? Because many people are too quick dissmiss the experiences of others when they involve Christ. They judge themselves to be more sophisticated that the people who have them. Consider near death experiences. Some which involve Christ could be seen to be influenced by the belief system of the person who has the experience. But there have been near death experiences where people clearly experienced things beyond what a Christian belief system would enable them to experience, yet they still found out that Christ does play a key role in the grand scheme of things. If a person dismisses such examples, there is a good chance this person is being selective according to his or her preferences. Such preferences might interfere with what he or she is able to experience spiritually.


From another thread:
"Recoverer,

Quote from recoverer on Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:49am:
How can a person be open to proof when they won't accept the proof you provide?

Your question so perfectly brings into focus the crux of the problem.  I finally came to the conclusion that it is impossible to provide proof for anyone other than ourselves through our own direct experience.  Unfortunately many who insist that nonphysical reality doesn't exist see their belieft as adequae reason to not waste their time investigating.

The planet we live on would still be flat if it hadn't been for someone who was willing risk sailing off the edge into the Abyss to discover the Truth.  And then, based on the reports of these few brave souls, other folks had the courage to sail toward the edge of the Earth to see for themselves.   

Many who visit this site have sailed beyond the edge of physical reality to search for the Truth of our afterlife's existence through there own direct experience.  And many of them now know the Truth.  I knew that was the most I could hope for when this website was first put up in 1996.  I am delighted and happy to see that so many brave souls continue to post their reports and in doing so encourage others to go sailing.

Love to you ALL,

Bruce"

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1184817642/0#0

Eternal Essence:

Responses within double quotation marks below.

I am sure that you can find tons of information that helps you with your arguments; however, I do not argue. Again, I do not need validation of my experiences, of what I know. I am sure that I could locate just as much information that contradicts you. What would be the point? An endless argument that has nothing to do with knowledge or truth, only a need to be competitve. You will not entangle me in that mess. Your web is of your own devising. Spin it, run around gleefully bouncing from one thread to another. Enjoy yourself.

""The above mainly sprouted when I spoke of near death experiences. I have yet to read and NDE where a person was told, "Jesus Christ doesn't have anything to do with divine reality" in some shape or form. The experiences of people who have experienced Christ in some way, don't get negated by the lack of such an experience by people who don't experience his presence. To suggest that their lack of experience of Christ negates the experiences of those who have experienced Christ, is equivalent to saying this forum doesn't exist because some people haven't experienced it.

I write what I write so that anybody who just might have an inkling to find out what Christ is about on their own, might be inspired to do so. The reason I write about it on this thread, is because "YOU" made the suggestion that my experiences are nothing but belief system based hallucinations.  Going by your additional posts this is what you had in mind.

  To me, there is a world of difference (yet also a subtle one) between contradiction (especially as applied to human nature and living in the physical) and paradox (especially as applying to Archetypal creation patterns).

Paradox can be indicative of truth, just as yin/feminine--yang/masculine both being equally important and valid energies/realities/perspectives, and yet quite different and the simultaneous existence or truth of both being paradoxical seeming.    Similar with the equally true, objective truths of oneness and individuality/uniqueness--these and the law of energy resonation apply to everyone.   

  Yet, contradiction in other areas oft points to relative degrees of untruth.   There is probably a good reason why Bob Monroe, Bruce Moen, and Cayce's sources placed a certain amount of emphasis on practical, more materially obvious verifications relating to nonphysical info.   Simple truth is that some psychic sources, have been more repeatedly verified in that more holistic way which also considers the physical and not just the mental and spiritual belief systems.  These also seem to contain less contradictions than some other psychic sources.

  Neptune and the right brain says, believe in whatever you feel to be true, let only the heart and your feelings lead you.  Mercury and the left brain says wait, some beliefs are inherently and universally constructive or destructive, better discriminate mentally, logically, and practically as well as feel. 

  When these merge completely then the Sun it all its glory shines forth.   How many are shining forth only the Sun, and who have merged these completely?

  If you go with one over the other, than you are only perceiving half truths and your perception will be distorted as judged individually, and from the perspective of the ultimate, the One.

Well it seems almost diabolical to mention Deppak at this point.... but here I go.

I had the great good fortune too sit with Deepak Chopra on a plane trip, and we talked for the entire six hour flight. He would be the first one to tell you that he is also a student here, just as we are, and he is fumbling along just like the rest of us.

His paradigm is Ayurvedic and blended with his western medical education, and it was a fasciating flight. He is a humble and generous man who would, like Christ, tell you that he is nothing that you are not. What he is, you are. What he can do, you can do. This and more will you, too, do.

And all the rest of it is blah-blah-blah......

There is only one of us here. But there is only one of us there, too.

Just my 2 cents worth....

Thomas

Good Evening , i consider myself over most of my life a Pub and pie person. Loved meeting up with a few mates talk footy and have a good laugh, but a few things change over the last few years especially since the passing of my mother and a few good friends since. I got interested in do we contiue after that final breath , has I miss those ones close to me and those ones that shall pass before me. I have searched the internet find myself interesting chaps like Deepak Chopra and a number of interesting sites like the one im on now. Started reading more afterlife books and have been reading the ULTIMATE REALITY were of all the things that in my short space of time searching I feel that this particular book sounds like the closest to what happens when one passes over.

I have been on and of this site for a few years and has you can see with my number of posts im more of a reader then poster but go to the Manchester United F.C. sites and you will see that its the opposite . I think one of reasons for this is yes i know that one writes in english and I can read it but to understand this whole concept is completely well let me put it this way mind blowing.

The one thing that im slowly begining to understand is this brief system thing and like i said of all the books and its not many that i have read my brief system is closet to the Ultimate Reality.Ok Christans believe in something else Heaven and Hell and other religions have there brief systems. However maybe its from my back ground of none church going and the friends and family that i associate with that most of this people that i know ,maybe hope theres something else but are intuned to there 5 senses believe that this is the one chance you get so drink eat and be bloody merry for tomorrow may not arrive.

The question in a long winded way is if a person has no religious briefs or any brief systems fullstop if that person has no thought that once the last breath is finished there is nothing else and his/her brief system believes this is this the end for that soul. Or are these the souls that are retrived by Bruce and others. Thanks Manchester United for the league.

Eternal Essence:

It isn't a matter of speaking about "my truth." To be frank, that is such a new agey thing to say. People tend to use such a way of thinking when they are more interested in having truth be what their ego wants it to be, rather than being interested in finding out what truth actually is.

If Christ is in fact a key part of divine reality, then it isn't a matter of opinion, no matter how hard some people insist that it is. People can try to deny Christ's relevance all they want, but his relevance doesn't go away simply because for whatever reason they find it inconvenient or threatening to acknowledge it.

When I've had experiences and received messages about Christ, they weren't presented to me in a manner of "if this is the truth you want, then here you go." They were presented to me in ways that showed that I was being shown "what truth is" not what is preferential.

Regarding  NDEs, I didn't state that NDEs without Christ are invalidated by NDEs with Christ. I believe it is very possible for a person to have a genuine NDE without the presence of Christ being involved. What I said is that NDEs with Christ can't be reduced to some sort of imaginary experience, simply because some people have NDEs without Christ. There are NDEs where people experienced Christ not because of their pre-existing belief system, but because this is what the divine powers that be wanted to reveal to them.