I seem to remember a journey I took where I was thrust through the womb and told I was now on my own. It was for a purpose of my higher self. I would have to do some clean up in this life and bring it all back home to the disc or overself where they would just nod their head politely and say we knew you could do it, it doesn't surprise us in the least although you're panting from the effort. 
my journey comprised the information how precious each person is in equal standing, no matter what they done, or haven't done, nor what experience they struggled under, nor karma, nor beliefs, nor emotions which alluded we were all incredibly guilty of something awful as the robed ones told us and we wished to be obedient to truth. I was told I was wrong to thrust salvation upon these others. Their beliefs were as in many gods, their treasure was in mother earth to supply them, they needed not my preaching. my grief was complete in my error. I seemed to suffer an eternity that I had instead of following the master, I had caused the natives to feel like they were living in sin. I would never get over this. i would come back and preach only forgiveness for it was I who needed that the most.
There is a PUL that permeates the universe, like a carpet, like the air we breath, it is a living water thing.
when I practice this thought, to a clerk who is harried, or whomever crosses my path, I seem to be giving honor to those, whom others would say don't deserve any honor.
I cannot tell anymore who deserves what and it doesn't matter.
I have been told and I accept it, we are all equally loved and deserving of acceptance in the place we find ourselves.
this is the basis of doing retrievals and moving stuck energies, encased in whatever belief system, none are right, none are wrong and it's not my call to judge any. I'm not qualified to be judge nor do I want the responsibility of another's soul.

If I use the Christ concept, or the Buddha concept, they are the same entity to me as is the clerk who is harried, I know if I envision in PUL the clerk, I am going to see god winking at me, and sure enough, by the time the transaction is finished the party has begun. you and I can change the atmosphere by our being present, in that there is no need to be harried or uptight; the light has not gone away when the Christ seemingly left, it is thought that makes it seem so, and judgment, even of our own selves. let god judge you, he would find you worthy everytime. We could think about the Koran, the Jewish bible does not believe JC was the messiah, and yet JC himself was Jewish..how ironic. In the same way I seem to see myself in another life oiling his feet and being told I was now on my own, that he preferred not to be worshipped but that I should meditate on his example for he would not save me, nor did he wish adoration as our old hymms sang out praise, and heavens were of the hollow variety after awhile. We entered a new age, but lo and behold the old age followed us in.

His example I wished to know. All that he said to me was your faith has made you whole, that is why you are healed; I am nothing without the father within me. The father is the creator, and we are co-creators as this is what Christed means, that the light is in you.

It cannot be in you if you judge others and try to tell them what to read, where to go and what sort of experience must be attained...that is up to the higher self intelligence as a co-creator with god. the only place god can enter this world is thru you; another will not show you where god lives and your journey is your own, but the light can tell you what to say and to whom if you are available to that desire to be helpful even as JC was/is.  there are angels who walk among you and you know them not. We didn't recognize even JC until centuries had gone by, that he was pure and free of any guilt, and yet he was judged as usurping the father's power.
we strung him up. it was you and I, who else would it be? and still he forgave because they knew not what they did.
There are many mansions up there, each room is different. if we take his example we don't start a war on the premise that we will obtain knowledge to defeat the  enemy, or we do not say to the enemy, you should take up our philosophy, we say instead, you are my brother, how can I serve you?
immediately, if one on one, as in a retrieval example, the so called enemy becomes the friend because of forgiveness, that we have an example of, but so seldom really follow or understand.
Instead it is "I have received a divine message." Why haven't you received the same?" therefore you must not be at my level, poor you!
thats not Christ's message. He never looked down on others because he walked with the Father. He just said love your brethren and do unto others as you would have done to you. Can you imagine the Christ sitting at a computer arguing about his belief system or his divine experience being so sublime no one else could possibly experience such love as Him?   No, he said the power is also in you, each one, and somehow we made him die to prove his love. thats sick. stop fearing death was his message in that one time frame.

thats only one world view. there are multiple dimensions of activity, of units of consciousness interacting for a different sort of show and tell, a different experiment. A thousand, a million Christs walk the Earth, in different dimensions of Earth, all real, all physical, and at the same time like a slide show of activity. all these bodies of Christ can be flesh. you've heard of the body of Christ? What can make you think that god the father cannot put down more than one of Himself?
Even our Bruce here has tried to tell you he can be in more than one place at a time. Even our Monroe has such an ability to be in more than one place at a time. the body is an illusion, a vehicle for our oversouls to be utilizing for experience gathering. It means nothing at all, but that you should regard it as a temple and respect that opportunity to be using it for such opportunity to have sensation upon it, to feel the wind, the rain, the sun, to watch the god in your children playing. Your children are the hope of the future.  it does not mean his personal body, but an entire wave of units of consciousness, they are all emissaries of the Christed one, one with him, like his fingers, like his toes. The body we live in is not real though it feels disease upon it, or pleasure, it is not our permanent home. what Christ was really showing you in this dimension of time/space within dying,  the body is not real.theres nothing you can do to the body which has a lasting effect as in eternal concepts.
therefore the illusion is we are bodies. we are not bodies, we are not our belief systems. we have to get beyond religion, and go into our spiritual commonalities, or bridge those gaps, the sooner the better if we are to demonstrate peaceful co-habitation, it begins with the individual.  death is not real, is what he wished to import. Another movie played in another universe, another Christ was not made to die so that you may live. The Christ consciousness lives beyond the rubbish of our thoughts as our essence.
nobody need take up a cross. that was a lie. my opinion. so hit me. we need to get beyond some of this religion misconceptions down thru the ages and move into his example, not what was written down by interpreters.
you can access this info by allowing your heart to break..the light takes you to the secret places that you all are trying to convey and don't know it.

We're the ones have to take responsibility to stop thinking that PUL is a possessive thing, that we are the only ones can feel this passion. that's separation. PUL is a unifying thing.
we are to be joining in this shift in consciousness and we can go there kicking and screaming, or we can help each other with open heartedness, so the light can get in here more easily.

We are a predominantly Christian nation and if we study what that means, it means we have already been forgiven our errors. that doesn't mean we can go out and start acting unChristian like by pointing out the obvious holes in another's thought system. didn't they do that, by bombing our buildings? they know we like our affluent lifestyles here. they got us where it hurt the most. we have to take responsibility for that also before we can move forward as a Christian nation mostly.
We have to study all religions to see what is right there and work from that point. Not from what is wrong. remember PUL unifies; the lion is to lay down with the lamb.
I do not claim to be a Christian but I have another life I remember where I was, so thats why I talk this way. my only religion this life is PUL to extend, we need to stop warring with each other and stop being so reactionary and more a thinking people.

I would think judgment or posturing here would prevent the many lurkers from expressing the inherent PUL inside of them, as then they would be busy trying to defend their turf, or they wouldn't post at all, giving us the gift of their own self, as the climate was too volatile and hostile to any real sharing intent which could expand our belief systems possibly.

somewhere the buck has to stop. In spiritual realms nobody's dog is bigger than anothers, nobody has a special relationship with the Christ that another does not also have that too, in a twinkling perhaps.
I'm reading a book "Only Love is Real." by Brian Weiss

I will not discuss this with anyone, his journey and his clients he worked with, just from the title you will understand, that's my belief, only love is real and all else falls by the wayside. If something else is real to you besides love then maybe you are at a valid juncture of life, like I was when I was small, where I discovered what love was not and had to feel non-love for a purpose to understand this world is not my home from where I came but I'm glad for the vacation, yet it's really nice to visit home and to get back there when I'm done here.
Each person helps me get home, if I just let them be their self, then PUL will speak and the heart will mend.

every single time you judge another person here as less than worthy of your honoring their life and beliefs, you but reenact the crucifixion by making them carry that cross of guilt. we just do it over and over and over.
now miss positive tries to be positive, maybe one person can make a difference in the world? it doesn't matter, anything thats going on out there, it matters how you treat one another in service and by constructive means, not destructive.
sermon over.
this planet is interesting, but there comes a time when the disc is full of experience and winks into another dimensional expression of joy unbounded, where we find ourselves in each other and we finally know, we are one.
you are all being supported and validated thru love. if you're still here, you're not there right? wrong. it is to become necessary to straddle I/there until our completion.

Keep each other in highest regard, for these are our treasures to take. how scary to think I was this other person and yet why else would I sit here and write these things down and I finally accept we keep doing this until we get it right and can say right along with JC "it is finished!"  I can hear laughter somewhere, but they laff with me, not against me.

LaffingRain -
First off it's nice to hear positive things about Jesus from a non Christian perspective.  It seems as if being loving and non judgmental is important in your thinking, which is great in my opinion because they are priorities of whom I consider to be the greatest spiritual master, Jesus.  If everyone operated out of love then the world would be radically changed for the better, and people who operate out of love are following Jesus much more than those who claim to be Christians but are not operating out of a loving perspective on life.
  Secondly I guess I want to point out that using logical debate is not necessarily a bad thing.  Sometimes discussing differences between perspectives is divisive, but sometimes discussing differences can be enlightening and helpful.
  It seems to me most people who value tolerance and love for others do not tolerate world views that tell others they should not be doing certain things.  For example, I'm not sure about the details you are referring to when you say

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but it seems to me as if you were trying to convert people of a different belief system to Christianity in another life and that you are saying that was terrible.  It may have been; it may not have been.  It seems to me that people who are of similar mindsets as yourself (maybe this is not fair to say about you, I don't know) don't ever want to hear about sin or someone correcting / warning others.  I would just add that not everyone is as good hearted as you are.  You seem to me like a very nice person, someone who I would love to have as my next door neighbor.  But some actions need to be rallied against;  to stand aside and let people commit grave sin without saying something somewhat implicates ourselves as well.  I believe humanity (at least in Los Angeles) is growing more dangerous, selfish, and yes, sinful, in everyday actions, rather than less of these things.  Or maybe I am just more exposed to dangerous, selfish, and sinful people as I try to work as a teacher in an urban school that includes gangs and major problems.

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This is actually false; its amazing to me how many prophecies that were written thousands of years before the life of Jesus that were fulfilled in him.  While it is true many of the Jews of Jesus' day rejected him; its precisely because he was the type of messiah who they did not expect and want; they wanted a political leader to overthrow oppressive Roman rule, and Jesus came preaching things like if someone forces you to carry their stuff (in a forced march) for one mile, carry it for two.

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Again it seems as if there is more anti judgment vibe here.  In other words, nobody has a right to tell me how to live my life only God does.  Let me ask a few questions about this then.

(1) If I wanted to live my life as a Muslim, and make my wife and daughters stay at home and not be educated, would that be acceptable to you?
(2) If I wanted to live my life as an Confucian last century, and wanted my wife's feet bound, basically crippling her (as my actual wife's great grandmother was), should people still remain silent and stand by and watch?
(3) If I lived in India and I died, should my wife be expected to throw herself on my funeral pyre?  Who are you to tell my family and their belief system that it shouldn't be done?
(4) If I lived in an African country that believes female circumcision is wise, should I stand up to stop it?  With this relativistic mindset you would be consistent if you told me that yes, if female circumcision is deemed wise by local religious leaders, then it should be practiced.  If you disagree on this point, you are being inconsistent - on what grounds do you have to say female circumcision should be stopped?
(5) Should have Martin Luther King Jr. stopped harassing white America during the civil rights era because he was telling other people they were behaving badly and should change their ways?
(6) Should militant Muslims be told to stop teaching young children to hate the West and specifically the U.S. at religious schools in Pakistan?

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Ok this is where I understand Don's frustration with new age thinking that is non rational 'rubbish' itself - actually worse than that but I will try to be civil here.  'nobody need take up a cross'?  Seriously?  When life gets tough you don't need to try to follow Jesus in his example of selfless love?  When I get tired of listening to my wife at the end of the day I should tell her I'm a follower of Jesus but there should be no suffering involved, so please be quiet?  Jesus' example was carrying his cross, and loving people during suffering.  Its amazing to me that a statement like this can be made, that is so far off the mark.  A requirement of Christianity is to take up our own cross and follow after Jesus; the verse specifically says "Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me" (Luke 9:23).  A summary of Christianity might be that Jesus was an incarnation of God, was crucified for our sins, and was resurrected.  You cannot remove suffering from the equation (Jesus' suffering, or our own), and still have something that even remotely resembles the teachings and life of Jesus.

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Again, this is relativistic rubbish.  Pointing obvious holes in another's thought system is not unChristian - Jesus did it himself.  He called the leading religious authorities of his day whitewashed tombs.  He told parables against them in their presence.  He called people out when they were behaving badly.  And yes, thought systems do matter.  It is not ok for someone to think as a racist, and we have an obligation to try to make the world a better place, and worldviews better, not just to be nonjudmental.  Lastly, logically what you are doing then is equating Jesus with the 911 terrorists, because Jesus pointed out problems in people's thinking.  For example in the parable of the good Samaritan, the person testing Jesus asked the question 'Who is my neighbor?', trying to find out what was the limit of where his love should stop.  Can I stop extending love with my family?  My friends, my people, my clan?  Jesus changed the question and changed thinking, by telling the parable and asking the tester who the good neighbor was, and then told him to do likewise - to basically look for people to be a good neighbor to, not to look for the limits of our responsibility towards others.  There goes that Jesus of history again, actually having the audacity of telling people to change their thinking and behavior.

rondele wrote on Nov 15^th, 2007 at 5:31pm:



Wholeheartedly concur. 

For a time (after getting really into some eastern teachings and channeled stuff), i was really into the whole everything is completely relative, and so called "nonduality" perspective.   Later on, i realized that this perspective was only a part of the equation. 

  Also, if one closely examines and ponders on Jesus, his life, and example, and not what some channeled stuff says about him, a person might see what Pratekya so well outlined--that he stood up for principles, called some bluffs, and spoke some seemingly strong words on occasion.    And above all, his whole life was about carrying the cross.   Without the cross and carrying of same, there would be no Resurrection, and this is something that Cayce's guides emphasized time and time again to people who received readings.  And they say that contrary to popular belief (at the time, i guess) that he did so JOYFULLY and with great gratitude though when the ultimate test was about to come, he did ask for it to be different if it still fulfilled the greater plan.  They say that he even joked on the way to Calvary, after overcoming self in the garden.    Plenty of people have died for a cause, and some for a spiritually greater cause, but few that went through it with so much grace, strength, and fortitude.

  Regarding taking up the cross, i've found the same to be true in my life, when i feel really spiritually intune, its usually when i take full responsibility in my life, and/or when i self sacrifice for others or the greater good.   I just haven't learned to do it perfectly, and so consistently like Yeshua did.   When i do, then i will be like him in every sense of the word.  Pure, complete, fully balanced, and merged with Source again. 

  We so easily forget that universal law which applies to all, that like attracts and begets like.  This applies so much to Yeshua, his life, and becoming like him.  This is why he came in flesh, though he didn't need to for his own development originally.   Think of what a sacrifice that original decision was, to forsake full Source awareness, not out of error or misuse of freewill like so many of us did, but only so that others could know the way back.  Imagine the sheer depth of love for us that he must have for us to have made that decision.   Could we not honor it by following his ways a bit more in our daily lives?  That's all that he asks, or ever asked of us, and only because he wants us to be happy and fulfilled like his is happy and fulfilled.

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This is beautifully written stuff here.

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You write very well though, and its good advice for anyone.  I need to revise whatever I write multiple times and it doesn't come out all that great usually.

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I agree that preaching by one's life can be / at times is more important than what words we use.  'Do as I say and not as I do' is not an effective way of leading people.  And I bet I'm not the only person who has seen preachers who will come on to a college campus with big banners that start condemning people to hell.  I asked one a question once at my university - the question was how did he think he was fulfilling the second greatest commandment of Jesus that we love our neighbors as ourselves when he was coming out to tell people he didn't know they were going to hell.  He promptly added me to his list of people who were destined to hell.  I told him he didn't know me, but he had moved on already, becoming once again a mockery of Christianity for a university campus that was seeing him (and Christianity by extension I suppose) as ridiculous entertainment.

  Hi Pratekya, thanks for the reply and the kind words. 



  Hi Don, i thought this "This is one of the reasons why the Risen Christ informed the affluent and smug Church of Laodicea that He'd rather they be "cold" than "lukewarm" (Revelation 3:15-16)." was more attributable to John rather than Jesus? 

  Anyways, one of the things that i've learned or gleaned from looking at Christ's example, is that he, his approach, and teaching style changed according to the need in the moment.  Or in to put it another way, he was all things to all people.

  And while i highly respect St. Francis and John, neither were Christ and neither lived such a pure example as he did.   Maybe if they had, they would have needed less words?   

  See, to me, the above post seems to be advocating a form of extremism...and having been rather extreme in some periods of my life, i well know that extremism is rarely constructive and rarely brings happiness or direct spiritual growth.    The more moderate, temperate, and balanced i become, the happier and more fulfilled i seem to become.  Nor does this mean i take my faith any less seriously, if anything it usually corresponds to me practicing my faith more deeply and consistently, hence taking it definitely more seriously.   Maybe that is just my individual experience though.