I take this question very seriously. That is why I questioned
Juditha about her alleged communication from Mother Teresa.
If Mother Teresa cannot get a communication from God, who can?
The issue was serious enough so I did not want to accept any mere
alleged communication. It would take something much stronger than a
mere supposed thing, to deal with this question. It would take the
kind of evidence that Bruce sometimes get, or like we occasionally
do get, where information is verifiable.

Much of religious material is delusional in nature. The
characteristics assigned to God by religion are mostly invented by
humans, and don't match reality. The physical universe is harsh and
pitiless and does not run on love, but rather on indifference. Love
only occurs in a few areas, involving family loyalties among the
higher animals.

God is not parental, does not do what a parent does. The heavenly
hosts are hypocritical, teaching love and helpfulness, but not giving
help except in the rarest cases and only to a few privileged people.
God is miserly. Most people get no help, and suffering continues.
There is no justice in who gets help and who does not, it is
arbitrary. There is almost no communication that seems to come from
a higher level, and the communications we do get are usually partly
questionable. Also, no god corrects the mistakes in religion. Humans
must do that, and have historically forced corrections onto
religion.

I just plain do not like delusions, and there is an issue of
delusion involved here, in the life of Mother Teresa.

I sometimes wonder of what we think are acts of God, speaking of
helpful things, are actually performed by groups of higher level
spirits. And that the setup of the physical universe is on a
different base, not like that. Heavens seem to have been built
largely by humans and human values. The physical universe seems to
come from somewhere else, and not created like the heavens.

The imagined God is largely not there, as Mother Teresa found out.

Boris-

You said

I sometimes wonder of what we think are acts of God, speaking of
helpful things, are actually performed by groups of higher level
spirits. And that the setup of the physical universe is on a
different base, not like that. Heavens seem to have been built
largely by humans and human values. The physical universe seems to
come from somewhere else, and not created like the heavens.

I have thought this same thing for quite a while.  We, as humans, can only conceive of a supreme being in human terms.  We ascribe qualities to God that tend to mirror our own human qualities and characteristics.  We have no other way of understanding God.  That's why so many things in the Bible that are attributed to God strike some of us as being cruel and petty and vindictive.  After all, that's how we see other fellow humans.  The Old Testament especially is like this.

I personally think there is some sort of creator, but having said that, I don't know much of anything else.  Regarding what you said, the question is, why didn't the helpers come to Mother Teresa's aid and comfort?  Why was she left in such anguish and torment?

R

rondele wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 11:44am:


It may be a mistake, or not. Each person has a buddha nature, which is their perfect potential, contained inside of them. That is the God in them. We can put many words around this buddha nature which sound pretty, but to me it seems to be so fundamental and pure that it cannot be explained. It must be experienced.

This is the part of our nature that is nearest to God, is closest to what we consider God.

So, yes, we tend to see God in our own image sometimes. That is not necessarily wrong, in my opinion.

And Mother Teresa did some great things. But she was human, after all. If she was so heartbroken at times, it is good that she had a friend to share her troubles with.

But, if she was in touch with her "buddha nature" she would not have been discouraged for long. She would have felt the presence of God inside of her own heart.

Many people lose touch with this when they are pulled into the public spotlight, or into positions of power. It is difficult to "hang onto yourself" in such circumstances.

Whether she could hear God or not, she was connected to the Source all along. I suspect she knew that. And I suspect she knew of her own deficiencies, as we all do, when we pay attention. Was she listening to that part of herself, and just couldn't correct them? We all have weaknesses.

love, blink    by the way, I cannot open that link, Rondele, so I have no idea what it says...

Blink

Try going to www.washingtonpost.com ; and on left side, under Opinions, click on article by Michael Gerson on Mother Teresa.

R

Roger,

Keep in mind that Mother Teresa experienced several ecststic (PUL) visions and auditory instructions from Jesus as part of her intitial call to minister to "the poorest of the poor."  Once she began her work with the poor, her mystical experiences ceased and she longed to have her spiritual batteries recharged by more ecstatic encounters with Christ.  Who wouldn't?  Her ensuing depression was in part an emotional crash from the rapture of those divine communications and the contrast with the depressing obstacle-filled task of confronting the apparently futile plight of the starving and deathly ill masses in Calcutta.  

I have experienced the same depression immediately after my most momentous experiences of union with God.  In my view, this inevitable emotional let-down is a defining characteristic of genuine mystical union with God.  The contrast with ordinary conscious states is just too dramatic to process comfortably.  So when Mother Teresa expresses her doubts, she is merely providing an honest expression of her recurring but transient depression.  Most of the time, people who were in contact with her perceived her as joyful and radiant.  Paradoxically, it is possible to be both joyful and depressed in the same phase.  Her depressed states were a function of the profound empathy of which saints are uniquely capable.  

Let's review how her ministry began after her sense of a divine call.  In her first exploratory days, she wandered all day in the hot sun, looking for a suitable place to serve as her headquarters.  When her efforts proved futile, she was afflicted by heat exhaustion and a growing frustration over the question of why God had not rewarded her tireless efforts.  Then she saw a woman dying on the sidewalk just outside a local hospital.  Though Teresa was diminutive, she struggled to carry the woman inside the hospital, only to be turned away because the woman lacked money.  Teresa stayed with the woman for several hours until she died on the sidewalk.  This horrific experience stiffened Teresa's resolve.  But she lacked financial backing.  So for a long time, she and her students simply swallowed their pride and went door-to-door begging for food.  They then distributed these rations to the starving and the dying.  She would eventually raise the funds needed to provide food and shelter for millions.  But her progress was very slow and any deeply empathetic soul would be depressed by the feelings of helplessness and the futility of her initial struggles.  

Some of the greatest saints have had depressive personalities for analogous reasons.  A Notre Dame psychologist once confessed that modern secular psychology is ill-equipped to get a handle on the higher states of consciousness of saints.  It has long been noted that the melancholic personality is generally far more spiritiually insightful than the so-called "healthy" personality.  

Long before the recent rash of articles on Teresa, I preached a sermon on "The Gift of Depression," and analyzed Teresa's depressive states as tools for her spiritual breakthroughs.  I then compared her growth curve with that of other saints who had experiecned a similar emotional roller coaster ride, a ride that stiffened their resolve to make a difference in countless lives.  My text was Psalm 88 which offers no hope and serves as an eloquent ancient description of the state of clinical depression.  The psalm was included in the Bible to make the point that such depression is an important phase of the journey of saints to deep empathy with those who suffer.

Don    

Berserk wrote: "Her ensuing depression was in part an emotional crash from the rapture of those divine communications and the contrast with the depressing obstacle-filled task of confronting the apparently futile plight..."

  I have read about similar depressions of people who had a "surrounded by light and love/ God" NDE. Some were suicidal.

Spooky

I'd like to add this from another pslam, #22:

"They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death."

While Christians, understandably, tie this to the Crucification, I see it also as another description of depression.

It seems that with depression there's a polarity. Viewed as suffering, it can be suicidal. Viewed as a gift, it can what Don points out, a means of spiritual insight.

It's also been said that suffering is relative, that is, each person experiences theirs as the greatest they know, so we cannot say that we suffer more than others (or they more than us). Since it is relative, it can be seen as an illusion; a choice of perspective: is it death or a gift?

Rob

Thanks, Don.