orlando123 wrote on Aug 8^th, 2007 at 5:27pm:

Amen brother..

This is a big problem, which also exists with Islam - that those who are accused of being "extremists" are just taking the letter of what theri religion says seriously and fully. Mainstream Christainity has, from very early in its development, said if you don;t have the right beliefs you've basically had it. So I would find it hard to feel very close to a believer in this who must look at me and feel, at best, pity for what is going to happen to me. Likewise a devour Muslim will presumably look at me and see an infidel who is also most likely going to Hell. As far as the Koran goes the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians) are the best of a bad bunch when it comes to non-believers (they at least have some similar beliefs). But even these come in for strong criticism and Muslims are urged not to make friends with them.

The reason that Don is useful to me is this: I am a world saver,
and a Vulcan, so to speak, and in order to save the world, from
things heading to World War 3, we must correct certain beliefs.
Don does not have any beliefs that are hazardous, but he is part of
the picture of older beliefs being questioned. It is particularly
certain parts of Islamic beliefs that must be corrected, those
connected to jihad.

In this process, some beliefs must crash. I need to monitor this
process of belief system crashes and see how it goes. For instance,
Juditha is able to retain good Christian values, some of which are
reinforced by the new discoveries, while she is also able to work
in the world of the spirit that is shunned by conventional
religion. So she has adapted, away from narrower beliefs, although
she has had some difficulties along the way, as you have seen.

Don is in the position of having made a life and work commitment to
certain beliefs, some of which may be threatened by new
discoveries. This is a difficult position to be in and causes some
agitation. I watch with interest to see how he is getting along,
because he is an indicator of what may develop, as what we do here
becomes better known. Also, I think of him as a friend, because of
his expertise, and because those of us who are truth seekers feel a
certain kinship regardless of their particular persuasion. Or at
least, I feel that way. I feel I belong to some sort of community
at large regardless of doctrinal differences. And I seek to promote
this kind of feeling among people generally.

It is part of the process of making new discoveries, to monitor
their effect on people generally. This might be part of the
activity of this forum.

When UFOs first became believable, US government policy of heavy
suppression of knowledge about them was partly based on the fear of
culture shock to the people. It later turned out that the culture
shock was not that severe. Even the Catholic Church has survived
this.

It is similar here, in that new spiritual discoveries are a form of
culture shock to conventional belief. Actually it is a partial
thing. New discoveries do not cause a complete breakdown of what
was there before. Rather, we retain our good values. Our
US government ideologies now allow both spiritual belief and
intellectual freedom. This was a significant adaption, and a great
step forward, since the thinking of previous religions was not
aimed toward freedom. The word Islam means submission. Islam is
still aimed at submission, and they want us all to submit to them.

But a few young Moslems are waking up, seeing the useless fighting,
and may be ready for an update in their beliefs. I have actually
heard the word update used. This updating will be a critical
process now, and our knowledge developing here could play an
important role. Therefore we should continue to refine it and
discuss what we are ready to back up with evidence. Because the
confrontation with established belief is a part of the overall
process. There wont be any improvement without it. Also, the
challenge from the outside will continue to focus us on the
question of what is supported by evidence, and what is not.

EliteNYC wrote on Aug 9^th, 2007 at 4:53am:

this above is a great summation of this entire thread so ditto as I believe all paths all religions are ultimately going to end up in the starting place anyway. more summation would be on my part, that Elite says "I picture the god of christian bible" and I wanted to say even if we are not a Christian, we still are influenced by living in a predominently Christian oriented society, simply because we are receiving other people's thoughts into our own mind, constantly through media, boards, family, etc. so we can call ourselves by any label, say, new age, Buddhist, Islam, whatever, but we cannot get out of relating with each other by default if nothing else.

so now for some bit of fun:

I was thinking how much I enjoyed this thread and all the different people on it and thought of labeling them for fun, hope nobody takes offense, as I don't mean that to take it that way. actually not just this thread, I was thinking of the entire board as a mansion, as an entire town, a village, a community we have turned into as I see people changing and growing and sharing and talking..

we have on our board all of these kinds of people (think of us as One)

* Bruce...Retrieval stock, writer, engineer, world traveler
* A doctor
* A hynotist, and former tube worm
* Several mediums
* A Vulcan
* A fire and brimstone Preacher/crossover mystic
* Several Buddhists
* Several drop in Obe adepts
* An astrologer or two
* Darth Vader
* A visionary retriever who makes movies
* Several Reiki experts/healers
* A projection of an ascended master group posing as an individual
* An avenging angel
* A social worker who can also do retrievals (aha!)
* several writers

I'm sure theres more..I myself am Internet hog godess of 2007.

love to all, alysia

from the lowest levels Blink said, I may add also from the highest levels I can perceive that also working. symbolically the basement stands for the subconscious areas which are brought to surface manifestation, so I can label you Blink as the mediator who facilitates the newbies into their positions. that facilitate action I was made to understand is to "make easy."

a very important and needed beingness there to my perception, a humble person who will inherit the Earth through this service.

u r not one to toot your horn, r u? go ahead. I've been watching u and you have a fine note there, would like to hear more of it!

along these lines of taking an overview of a whole community and/or adopting a world view as our Boris has done and many here also, I thought yesterday about something I learned about humanity:
it was that we teach what we need to learn.

so we are always teaching who we are. which changes. by teaching who we are, the other person/s we interact with also are learning who they are by a sort of comparison value, so then we change inside ourselves by the act of interaction, of teaching who we are.
it seems during the shift in consciousness, which I for one am experiencing it is impossible to be who we were yesterday if we allow others to interact with us and affect us.
which is not negative to feel a part of a movement at this time. its quite positive personally.

Blink brings up something to consider for me. her path is a lot like mine in that she says she "listens" to people. shuffling paper is what provides the livlihood aspect, but it's the listening part that is the most important. same here. If I'm not receptive enough to listen, really to hear whats being said, I'm really not of any help to another spiritually speaking or materialistically speaking.

something happens to my heart chakra when I listen really well, I can hear music. I can hear god.
we are progressing. love, alysia

Hi there,

If I got it right, the older parts of the bible lacked of beliefs in heaven or hell, it was just more like you are blessed if you live according to the teachings of god, he will enrich your life, if you don't, it will be painstaking (a statement according to the "early" beliefs, I think it was in ecclesiasts, who tell, that the dead will have no knowledge at all)
So to say, literally heaven and hell during the lifetime, and no afterlife at all (so where should be a hellish afterlife if the beliefs tend to rather deny spare details of something like an afterlife, or like mesopotamian religions, which do not hold beliefs in a further existence ?)

And the thing about the invented hell.... they did not directly invented hell, but for an certain amount of money you could buy papers that should prevent you from going to hell.
What was exactly invented, was the outlook of Satan, which is more of a adaption from the greek god Pan, who was more of a god who provided the joys of life (like music and dance, also sort of a god of the nature) , which was a stinger in the flesh of the ones, who wanted to use the institution "church" to oppress others (again, it is not the words fault, but the receptors).
You would agree, that if you can be happy, the fear (that was exploited to gain money and power) would not really be that big that you would tend to prevent your self from hellish adventures. Their (to say who I think of those are, corrupt secular and clerical landlords), feudal system could only exist, because the "common" people held the belief that god wanted them to be the 3rd "layer" of people, that had to feed their "owners" (don't tell me they were free....).
So what in this case could work better than use "hell" as an instrument of fear, to misuse scripture to verify your position, that you want to make others believe is wanted by god (i never read that god has allowed to take others as slaves...so in fact, it is not what god really wants...), and the way to escape is buying those letter from the church (drain trade??) to set your soul free, the other way to accept their low position as servants never asking for more than to be in the favour of their master..... . This happened during the medival age, I think through this behaviour, the men of god, who misused their position in favour of power, nailed the meaning of christian religion to the cross. The Inquisition was just the expression of the fear, that the leading "layer" of society had of free minds, especially women who dared to know something....is as stupid as it sounds.

Nicea, to say one short thing about this, one point was wether Jesus Christ is divine or if he is not. So he was decided to part of the trinity, but not the creation itself.

Love,

pulsar

Hi Briggsanddurlacher, hmm. I wonder if you're German? Its too soon for me to try and figure out who you might be, but it's nice having you join us, for sure!
just guessing, and tell me if I'm right or wrong or in the middle..I picture you as in your early 20's say, 23 just came to me. a young man, most studious. I see you as Indigo star child, these are those who came to be here during what can be a troublesome time for humanity, they carry knowledge of the heart kind, and they are a vast group born all over the world as they are needed where they are.
the avenging angels have a tough job because of their sense of urgency and feelings of responsibility for Earth peoples and the Earth itself, but they are nonetheless on the side of justice and good to prevail. they can be brash and need to ask assistance as I do believe none of us can do any good here without each other and guidance from on high, which is like remembrance of your intentions for coming to Earth.
we can also find Indigo children here of all ages, 30, 40's, and on up as age of the body has little bearing on the other side. There are other labels for Indigo children who come in on different rays of all the spectrums. but Indigo is the transmutational healing color ray, so therefore their thoughts are predominantly of this color, and help people to change their minds, or transmute negative energy into positive.

I have no idea Briggs if anything I said is helpful or truthful about you, but as I said before there are some here which give me much inspiration to continue participating here as best I can. love to you all, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Aug 11^th, 2007 at 9:06pm:

You were right about everything you said.. Btw I'm Alex.. Do you remember me?? lol

I'm buy your book soon?? Even if you endorse reincarnation..

peace