hi there, you said: 
I'm just so confused.. Even, if God doesn't create this hell, why do people experience it??? It's the same as not creating it or not.. It is sadistic either way.. By creating it or letting people create it themselves..
____

this the way I like to think of it: once upon a time we sat around in heaven twiddling our thumbs with a smile on our face. we played harps all day long. after awhile we wondered what else to do. so we spotted this planet looked appealing to the eye. we thought to make some flowers of variety. later we made some cars. so we could visit each other. have tea and crumpets like in the old days.
so we came in waves and broke up into different personalities and lived in houses that all look just the same. then some of us like to make trouble. we made dualing an art. women were supposed to stay home but we wanted some of the action too, so forget that!  

get the picture? this is our world, we made it, god is getting tired of waiting for us to come home, but this dude is of utmost patience, I mean god is a woman too. god has no genitals, we made them up too.

its over so quick, take my word for it, you have to make the best out of the lemons you have, into some lemonade. chin up..this no time to be lamenting..love, alysia

thats very funny about the easter bunny Seeker, I didn't know you guys had a sense of humor..now I can't resist this cartoon..
I apologize to offend anyone.

briggsandurlacher3,

briggsandurlacher3 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2007 at 10:28pm:


It is an unfortunate fact of history that Christianity was born and grew up in the time of emperors and kings.  Unfortunate because our Christian god was then modeled on emperors and kings.  These guys owned everything within their realm and had unquestioned power and authority over everyone and everything within their realm.  Should such a king or emperor become displeased with the behavior or actions of one of his subjects the king could decide that person's fate with impunity.  To the dungeon to be left to starve to death, or tortured to death, cut up and fed to the dogs, whatever the king decided.  So, all the king's subjects figured out pretty quickly that they best do whatever they could to keep the king happy.  This kind of cruel, brutal, petty, loving, hatefull, all-merciful, vengeful, psycho-king became the template for the Christian god.  As a result they have an omnipotent, omnipresent, loving god who sits on a throne and must be obeyed without question lest he become angry and vent his brutal rage and anger on you as one of his subjects.  And since this Christian king's realm is all of everything, including eternity, his dungeon is portrayed as never-ending torture and pain for all of eternity.

How could this not  be confusing?  It's a ridiculous, psychotic, mix of internally conflicting personality traits taken from the templates of the rulers, kings and emperors, of the times in which Christianity's religions were created.  A loving, all merciful god you must constantly appease, suffer and sacrifice for lest he get mad at you and send you to the torture chamber (hell) for all of eternity.  A more convoluted plate of hog wash would be hard to find!  It's no wonder it's confusing!

Back to your question.

Explaining in detail how it is that thoughts can be things could take up an entire book.  Let's just say that Consciousness is some kind of "Stuff" (like teeny, tiny particles) that can be "organized" into any "form" by the thought of that form, or said another way, by imagining that form.  This Stuff is extremely pliable and easily "molded" by thought and imagining.

I was raised as a Lutheran.  All good Lutherans are taught to believe and imagine the existence of Heaven and Hell.  We were thaught to believe in a set of rules the Lutheran god supposedly uses to determine who gets loved and who gets tortured after death.  Just a single person imagining all this hog wash fantasy would create some level of Lutheran heaven and hell.  But, there isn't just one person doing it, there have been millions of them doing it since Martin Luther first laid out the basis of his belief system.  With all these people imagining and believing in Luther's imaginings great gobs of the Stuff has become pretty solidly molded to conform to their beliefs.  And from my experiences, and that of others exploring nonphysical realities, you have to share the Lutheran beliefs that molded the Stuff into Lutheran heaven or Lutheran hell in order to take up residence in these places.  You won't find any Catholics living there, they have their own beliefs and imaginings that create their own Catholic heaven and Catholic hell, and Limbo and Purgatory, etc.

So the short answer to why people experience hell (or heaven) is that they chose to do so by joining the belief system that created the place.  It is for me very sad and ultimately ironic that the ONLY reason people experience the hell their religion describes is because their religion created the place by getting them to believe it exists.  Lutherans in hell are there solely because their religion, not God, created that hell and the rules by which a Lutheran is sent their.

Okay, I'll get off that soapbox for a moment . . .

briggsandurlacher3 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2007 at 10:28pm:


Me too!  That is one of the reasons I teach the Art of Retrieval.  We, the physically living, can be of service to our fellow human beings who are trapped in these horrible, religion-created hells.  We can assist the nonphysical Helpers who constantly work to retrieve those trapped folks and take them to a better place.

Bruce

Thanks everyone for the help on this subject..!! Especially, Bruce for his great explanation!

I know God never created hell.. It's just hard to believe we have created hell..

I wish I knew how to have obe's so I could help retrieve people..!

From my research I believe the only ones who go to hell are the ones who have no remorse/hate God, and believe they are going to hell..

peace

Hadn't thought of the historical origins of the Christian doctrines being formed in the era of kings and emperors or the difference between western and eastern spiritualities, trust this forum to make sense on a more 'mainstream' board you'd never get this type of insight or awareness, well done guys 

Never say die wrote on Jul 31^st, 2007 at 6:55am:


thats true, I never thought of it that way either   for some reason I carried a feeling in this life of unease to think of people in power. power is so often abused over the common person. good analogy Bruce; really makes you think about priorities of government and religion getting all mixed up.
love, alysia

Bruce Moen wrote on Jul 30^th, 2007 at 10:25am:



To me, this physical existence is the worst of all these hells. It is the most solid - because most people agree on its reality??

The fact alone that one life form has to eat other life forms in order to survive, is utterly repulsive to me. And that goes not only for animals.

Myself and many others are here to retrieve people, but this is not a nice short trip of an hour or two, after which we can return to the warm and cozy safety of our home. We have to spend a whole lifetime, and home's memory has faded away to a few tiny traces.

Fellow retrievers are few and far apart. I am only grateful for the internet which provides at least a little bit of connection.