Thank you so much,
Dear Alysia!

That is exactly what I needed to think about now.

Love, Bets

hi spooky, I used to think my memories were in my brain, as I saw on TV, physics, that every time you learn something new, a little line imprint is made upon the brain tissue.

however, I have now changed my mind about memories being there. Bruce says the memories are stored in the disc, and this makes more sense to me.

I have pondered this often myself, and while I do believe that the mind, or consciousness, transcends the brain (and I'd like to gain enough firsthand experience to turn this belief into a known), it seems very, very rash to me to dismiss centuries of scientific discovery and breakthrough regarding the fantastic nature of the human seat of thought . I think that, perhaps, a human's consciousness is limited to "playing on the brain's terms," so to speak, while it is residing in a body. When one's consciousness leaves the body, via either phasing to other areas of nonphysical awareness, or death, it may be that the mind is no longer limited to the restrictions that are placed on it by the brain, since it is not "residing" in it at that instance.

We know that the brain serves as the body's "computer" in a way, seeing as it is responsible for maintaining the function of our various organs, our nervous system, our digestive tract, and every other thing needed to keep our body alive and well. Additionally, it cannot be denied that certain parts of the brain are responsible for certain aspects of a human's behavior or personality, which are often considered part of the "mind". If this were not true, how would you explain the reactions of a human to a lobotomy, where the prefrontal cortex (which controls various emotions, and a person's sense of right and wrong) is damaged or removed? As for memory, certain areas of the brain have been recognized to have a link to learning and memorization (hippocampus), and damage to the brain has often led to impaired memory (amnesia, etc).

I do recall someone, either on the message board or in the retrieval archive, telling about how he or she had a sister suffering from dementia, I believe, who was confined to a psychiatric hospital of some sort. This person then, nonphysically, with the aid of a few others (might have been helpers) proceeded to retrieve various aspects of the sister's mind, resulting in a great sense of healing for everyone involved, along with an improvement in the sister's condition (if memory serves me right .

If the above situation was an honest account, I think further work in the area of assisting people with such disorders could not only relieve great suffering, but bring us closer to understanding the nature of the mind, the brain, how they relate to one another, and just how far the rabbit hole goes in discovering the truth about ourselves.

Food for thought: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5194382.stm
http://www.memorylossonline.com/fall2005/dejavu.html

This is all true what you say Ryuuko. As I said, the brain (and all the other physical stuff) is necessary, but not sufficient for leading a physical life with having experiences, thoughts etc. It's true, you can find correlations between brain states and the behaviour. But you cannot find the experiences, thoughts etc. in the brain. Look at it in a way of paralellism: When you experience and think, there are specific activities in the brain. What is not correct is to make the conclusion "the thoughts are brain activities" (identification) or "the thoughts are caused by brain activities". These would be conclusions which are not justified- they are just incorrect because they're senseless through confusion of categories. Because thoughts are not physically defined, they are not something physical, at a specific place.

Spooky

Quote Alysia:
"there is not higher thought in the brain"

My point is, there is not one thought at all in the brain. In the brain there are cells and such. The brain is a physical object, while thoughts are not. Sorry for being such insistent, but this issue just pushes my buttons! 

Spooky

Hey there!

No thoughts in the brain....sounds plausible, I agree that thoughts can not be found, or shown, the only thing that can be shown are the electrical impulses while our brain is thinking, or thinks like bio-chemical reactions wandering from one cell to another via the large amount of synapses in between our cells in the brain.
Right, that must not obviously imply that our thoughts are made by the brain, but whithout it, a physically alive being cannot act. Damaged nerves for example cannot pass information where it needed to be, e.g. if your nerves guaranteeing working of your arm is damaged, it is not movable at all. A handicap, but concerning the body. Does it bother our soul, spooky? At least the body-bound, if it is possible for a soul to fall in love with the body too much (but isn't it like a spinning-backwards-effect on the soul that lives like
The brain is sort of a computer with a certain kind of program within (EEG would show that it is "playing".
Yet the initializing object making the brain work is not found, and it obviosly is not located in the brain, I refer to the case of a patient (think her name is Pam), was given a hyperthermic shock to stop her brain activity (flat line EEG was the "visual result" on the screen. Her body-temperature was about 15 ° Celsius, normally it is about 36-37° Celsius. I guess if you would be frozen like this outside a hospital, without machines making your heart or other vital functions possible, there won't be much life in the physical understanding of our body ("man only sees, what he understands" - goethe).
The clinically surroundings (I am not sure if it would have been possible without, but it is a possibily whatsoever, maybe she would have left her body still being aware in spirit, going to the next plane of existence), allowed her a NDE observing herself during the surgery, her mind was offline and her body more dead than alive. What is strange about this, she had consciousness, even if her brain was out of order, so it is definitly not the "home" of consiousness. She could explain detailed about her surgery, what the doctors told (her eyes were sort of "taped", her ears plugged) and one doctor had the impression, that she was sitting on his/her shoulder, observing what was going on.
So in this case, the dmt-matter, scientists always focused on dmt, making the NDE-afterlife-outlook-hallucination. So no hallucination, because the receptor, or creator of hallucinations was shut down!
So still a proof, that consciousness needs not the brain, but the brain needs consciousness to work.
But I would wonder if the 15°Celsius body would have the strength to keep the consciousness alive.
So after all, consciousness is needed to provide, thoughts images, experiences, and these questions still remaining: , if the body needs consciousness, or the consciousness the body, are they a dualism, that would not be able to work if one is gone. This is wether proven nor disproven. The body is soulbound, i think as consciousness in your eyes is a soulfactor, and not a mind connected to body effect, that those tiny, funny molecules, or submolecules create. The are energy, without energy, so to say disfuntion. But energy has other ways to transform, must not be within the molecular structure of a body. So soul is energy, an energetic phenomenon. So would dying mean taking out the energy (soul). The body breaks, but if consciousness is soulbound (it is necessary if immortality means existence of a soul in spiritual planes, where it has the possibility to feel the I AM, that we feel during this earth realm existence!) , it would leave the body, so the consciousness is not lost, but freed.

Deseases, apart from psychical illnesses are seriously not mind disfunction (in this case, emotions turning mad, and some of them can be created by ourselves, others by abusing, torturing....whatsoever), only if we would be able to create e.g. the virus within ourselves (but why???), why creating our own intruders?
The reaction is still bio-chemical (I do not want to explain it, I think you now how it works in the scientific point of view), parts in the blood "consuming" the virus....(doesn't work with aids, the aids-virus is able to change the shape so it won't be recognized by those cells in our blood, that are able to get the information that there is a known one running around, that can be marked as such a think, and it can't be killed....explained it.....sry...).

Healing itself, I would say works best if used against emotional baggage (yes I know, if a cancer-patient shows a strong will to survive, cancer can be cleansed easier...otherwise it can be the other way round, faster physically dying). Maybe with smaller injuries, but a serious fleshwound would rather be infected by parasites (to us they are...) than be healing well, this infection would have a serious affect on our body....).

The future thing....good to take a look on it, Alysia, but where is a future without today and yesterday, but I think your way of living from you heart (correct me if it is a failure calling it like this), is involved. (sure, living means loving, without love one would be a walking body, being dead inside, I am still too much of a dead man walking ).
The heart knows the three of them .

Higher thinking, uhhm.....means the transcendence created by our mind, science, philosophy, art.
It is a free will choice to make it part of your life, and those three are ways of understanding our world, the goal is somewhere around the same.....(but depends on arts, i would tend to say that science and expressionistic literature would not be a good couple, since partner number sometimes blames numer one).
But since we are parts of the thing that is the "one in all" and also the all in one, it is surely the human level of awareness of transcendence, as a spiritual being, there is the possibiliy to explore more of the trancendent, yet of going on for the consciousness.

Free will...omg, how free is your will if you have to pass??
Only if there is something about passing, if it is like passing over. Otherwise it seems more like a healing device for the drowning humanrace... .
But it is just what I think, others do not, and it is most of them, I know

If you think that you are thinking, you only think to do so. ("Wenn du denkst du denkst, dann denkst du nur du denkst.")

With the soul, we are not determinated, but without we would be!
(So no light at the end of the rainbow, since hope is the rainbow, we will get what we desire...we do not desire it, for the believer it is promised, I lost my rainbow since I got too sceptical, but it is there, maybe in small portions ).


chief sceptical got it outright wrong, hugh.... (yes there is more to life than I might see... )

Love,

pulsar

hello Pulsar and Spooky  I/there, yes Spooky thats my path, integrating the I/there. good thoughts from this thread.

Pulsar, the German mind is very detailed, is it not?  just ask my car, that is German made!

Pulsar said: why creating our own intruders?   you seem to be in the health profession from your words, I was seeing a doctor. I too have read many stories of NDE, where the patient was flat lined, yet described from a location above the operating table details they could not have observed with the senses being dormant, therefore it had to be non/physical senses.
why creating our own intruders? I think its rather we participate with the intruders for purposes we generally don't know off the top of our head, excepting we might meditate and gain the answer, for ourselves, but not necessary for another.
its true the immune system can be weakened by such things as depression, emotional problems of long standing, yet I believe the mind participates with the emotions.
I don't see in that sense we are creating of our own intruders as I see that we individually allow ourselves to not observe the effects of our behavior patterns nor the writing on the wall which leads to a thought of death, versus the will to live, a thought of life, or hope as you put it so well, hope is a healing thought, as is gratitude, if we're able to find that within ourselves.

There was a song, I think Neil Diamond sang "I AM" I said, to no one there, and no one spoke, not even the chair.
I was thinking of this song today when I read these posts, and considering the out of body state of mind.
When I am in this state, I am feeling and knowing that I am.

I am aware that I exist in a nonphysical type of locale. I am aware that I am aware that I am.

funny huh? it's one thing to be aware that you exist. it's another thing to be aware that you exist in a location nonphysical.

I think the I/there is what is aware and watching the me/here and we are truly one entity.

Pulsar you said what is the future without yesterday and today. you're right, we need all of time to look at. what if our lives were simply one never ending day?
thats rather how I think of being with my I/there.