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Question about  Creating our own reality.. (Read 6332 times)
DaBears
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Question about  Creating our own reality..
May 11th, 2007 at 10:28pm
 
I know from most nde's that we create our own reality... What we think is what we get.. I just don't get why would God let people create a different version of Jesus.. A Jesus that took this person that had a nde on a tour of hell.. Also, this Jesus warns that person to let others know about  hell and that it is real..I didn't make this up I have read some nde's that talk about Jesus showing people visions of hell of fire and brimstone with demons..

I mean I can see how people can create their own afterlife of heaven and hell, but not create a counterfeit Jesus.. Why would God let them create their own version of Jesus?? IT makes no sense to me..

I guess it must be because our subconscious minds do create everything we experience in the afterlife..


Please someone clarify this one for me.. It has boggled my mind the past few nights!!
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Boris
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #1 - May 11th, 2007 at 11:34pm
 
In the Philip experiment, a group of table sitters created a character named philip, who then rapped on the table, spirit style, to respond to questions put to him. He answered according to the biography they had created for him.

I have read descriptions of BSTs in which the appropriate resident god was apparently also created by the same process that the BST was created. In other words, the BST came with its resident god.

In one BST, the appearance of Jesus coming way off in the sky, as described in Luke, was enacted for the benefit of the people in that BST that believed that story. It was a staged performance of that story, arranged by the people higher up in the BST.

In his book Far Journeys, Robert Momroe described a BST presided over by a strange god, who had everyone lie down on the floor whenever the god appeared.

There are other stories like this, where the resident god did not seem quite "normal" according to most of the descriptions we hear.
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« Last Edit: May 12th, 2007 at 4:38pm by Boris »  
 
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DaBears
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #2 - May 12th, 2007 at 12:10am
 
Boris wrote on May 11th, 2007 at 11:34pm:
In the Philip experiment, a group of table sitters created a character named philip, who then rapped on the table, spirit style, to respond to questions put to him. He answered according to the biography they had created for him.

I have read descriptions of BSTs in which the appropriate resident god was apparently also created by the same process that the BST was created. In other words, the BST came with its resident god.

In one BST, the appearance of Jesus coming way off in the sky, as described in Luke, was enacted for the benefit of the people in that BST that believed that story. It was a staged performance of that story, arranged by the people higher up in the BST.

In his book Far Journeys, Robert Momroe described a BST presided over by a strange god, who had everyone lie down on the floor whenever the god appeared.

There are other stories like this, where the resident god di not seem quite "normal" according to most of the descriptions we hear.

Thank you my friend Boris for the great feedback!! I see that is crazy.. I feel sorry for those people stuck in BST like that..

peace
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Rob Calkins
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality.
Reply #3 - May 12th, 2007 at 9:31am
 
I think all consciousness becomes interconnected at a higher level.  When we experience something like that either or both: we interpret the experience according to our own needs and beliefs or the higher conscious point of view, it speaks to us in terms that will be meaningful to the particular individual.

Never heard of the Philip experiment Boris mentions but that illustrates it.  Here several people created an expectation or belief and Philip lived up to it.  Expectation and belief are powerful.

Rob
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality.
Reply #4 - May 12th, 2007 at 4:11pm
 
Great example Boris!

A second option might be as simple as the fact that with all our different backgrounds, since we understand things in accordance with past experiences, we tend to view things differently. This includes how we view various people. But that is just another explanation for BSTs.

dave
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LaffingRain
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality.
Reply #5 - May 12th, 2007 at 11:20pm
 
it seems thoughts are things and whatever we conceive heaven to be right now, we form these thought forms that are called self creations. so we create this way the afterlife. so for instance the nde person u describe, to my perception, while they were in a physical body they had some thought put into the hell and heaven realms; they imagined Jesus would explain everything once they died. sure enough, they die and a guide comes along and takes the form of Jesus, to get his attention for one thing. as the guide can look into his mind and see, he only wants to talk to Jesus as his whole life that was the expectation and we have this tunnel vision over there. the guide will take any form necessary to get his attention. Not that JC does not appear for real, but in this case I sincerely doubt this was a real manifestation of JC, but a guide that was showing this person his own thought formation and his own beliefs about where he thought he "deserved" to be sent. then I am sure if the guide did not retrieve the person to a better place, the guides come back, or another one does until there is success. in this case they guy came back to his body and interpreted his experiences according to his best perceptions of what it was like over there for him, not for everybody.

one thing I noticed about this board, a lot of people carry a belief or fear of hellish regions, so that is only guilt feelings. we can get over guilt feelings here by meditating on ourselves, checking the guilt monitor, doing self retrievals, having chats with people we are in disharmony with, in the end we all have already been forgiven because we never left the heart of god in truth, we are dreaming we are here. but I don't expect anyone to understand that concept that you are innocent therefore don't have to form thought forms of hell to experience.  I'm not saying theres no justice or punishment for deliberate wrongdoing, as working on yourself entails suffering in itself, but it's best to leave this old world with a satisfied mind, now lol, I have to resort to song lyrics again...Dabears! stop me!   There's a tremendous amount of literature on NDE's, we have to learn the truth from gleaming the commonalities that run through the lot of them, and that would be closest to the truth.

love ya DaBears... Smiley

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DaBears
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #6 - May 13th, 2007 at 12:34pm
 
Great Post Alysia!! That makes a whole lot of sense to me! Yes, it's all about meditating and figuring out what you feel guilty about.. Also, seeking forgiveness from people we may have harmed.. The key is also, forgiveness of self and love of self and others..!

I also, don't believe in punishment of wrongdoing, in the way that hells are formed.. I believe man only punishes himself.. By believing he is not worth or deserves punishment.. I know were all not innoncent.. In God's eyes we all are worthy though.. Since, God loves us unconditionally... Man thinks he deserves punishment and believes wholeheartedly he will end up in this type of hell and will get that type of hell.. If, we think we are worthy and own up to our mistakes and seek forgiveness of self and others.. We are going to be met only by love imo... God never punishes us!!

peace thanks everyone for the great replies!!
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #7 - May 14th, 2007 at 3:07pm
 
I believe it is a mistake to believe that one can create the experience of Christ according to one's belief, but not do the same thing when experiencing things according to how a person like Robert Monroe has defined things.

Regarding people having an NDE where Jesus shows them a fire and brimstone like hell realm; first of all, I've read a lot of NDEs and that kind of experience is rare and contradicts the experiences of others. Some fundamentalists claim that NDEs come from satan. I wouldn't be surprised if some fundamentalists have made up NDE experiences in order to contradict NDEs that they believe come from satan.

I believe NDEs are partly a mix of what we believe, partly a mix of what spirit guidance tries to show us, and partly a mix of what the spirit World wants to communicate to people.

Regarding the first and second factor, if a person is really stubborn about fundamentalist ideas, it might be difficult for such a person to have an NDE that doesn't include fire filled hell realms. Therefore, guidance might not have a choice.

Regarding the third factor, my feeling is that the divine powers that be understand that there is a lot of confusion here in the physical when it comes to what spiritual truth is. They want to improve what our overall understanding is, get us to me more open to loving viewpoints, but it is hard to do so when people have minds that are closed in various ways. Therefore, they arrange for various types of NDEs to take place, so different audience members can be reached. The hope is that a time will come where people will no longer believe in things such as a wrathful, vengeful God and eternal damnation.

I believe it is more than a matter of belief. It is also a matter of how open to love a person is. If a person is vengeful and insists on seeing souls get tortured for all of eternity, he or she won't have the freedom to go beyond his or her fire and brimstone belief system.  On the other hand, if a good hearted person has a fundamentalist belief system, the love in his or her heart will allow he or she to have an NDE that goes way beyond a vengeful mindset. Many fundamentalists have had such experiences. DaBears posted an NDE not too long ago where a Baptist lady had an NDE that went beyond the fundamentalist viewpoint. I was able to experience heaven years ago, even though I was very atheistic at the time. Perhaps because I still had enough openess of heart to do so. 

Thomas Sawyer's NDE is one of the best I've read. He experienced things to extent where it is hard to believe that he was heavilly influenced by his preconceived concepts.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation03.html

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DaBears
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #8 - May 14th, 2007 at 6:26pm
 
recoverer wrote on May 14th, 2007 at 3:07pm:
I believe it is a mistake to believe that one can create the experience of Christ according to one's belief, but not do the same thing when experiencing things according to how a person like Robert Monroe has defined things.

Regarding people having an NDE where Jesus shows them a fire and brimstone like hell realm; first of all, I've read a lot of NDEs and that kind of experience is rare and contradicts the experiences of others. Some fundamentalists claim that NDEs come from satan. I wouldn't be surprised if some fundamentalists have made up NDE experiences in order to contradict NDEs that they believe come from satan.

I believe NDEs are partly a mix of what we believe, partly a mix of what spirit guidance tries to show us, and partly a mix of what the spirit World wants to communicate to people.

Regarding the first and second factor, if a person is really stubborn about fundamentalist ideas, it might be difficult for such a person to have an NDE that doesn't include fire filled hell realms. Therefore, guidance might not have a choice.

Regarding the third factor, my feeling is that the divine powers that be understand that there is a lot of confusion here in the physical when it comes to what spiritual truth is. They want to improve what our overall understanding is, get us to me more open to loving viewpoints, but it is hard to do so when people have minds that are closed in various ways. Therefore, they arrange for various types of NDEs to take place, so different audience members can be reached. The hope is that a time will come where people will no longer believe in things such as a wrathful, vengeful God and eternal damnation.

I believe it is more than a matter of belief. It is also a matter of how open to love a person is. If a person is vengeful and insists on seeing souls get tortured for all of eternity, he or she won't have the freedom to go beyond his or her fire and brimstone belief system.  On the other hand, if a good hearted person has a fundamentalist belief system, the love in his or her heart will allow he or she to have an NDE that goes way beyond a vengeful mindset. Many fundamentalists have had such experiences. DaBears posted an NDE not too long ago where a Baptist lady had an NDE that went beyond the fundamentalist viewpoint. I was able to experience heaven years ago, even though I was very atheistic at the time. Perhaps because I still had enough openess of heart to do so.  

Thomas Sawyer's NDE is one of the best I've read. He experienced things to extent where it is hard to believe that he was heavilly influenced by his preconceived concepts.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation03.html


So, let me get this right.. You are saying that those stuck in the belief system of fire and brimstone hell, might be stuck there forever... Since, they can't see past the falsities of their beliefs?? On afterlife101.com they said those in hell will always be saved quite briefly.. Because they will be helped by guides.. They will see the truth once they asked for help..


peace
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recoverer
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #9 - May 14th, 2007 at 6:34pm
 
Wow Dabears!

I didn't say that at all. If anything, I said the opposite. I was referring to what people experience during an NDE. Not what is actually true. Perhaps I need to take a writing class.


[/quote]
So, let me get this right.. You are saying that those stuck in the belief system of fire and brimstone hell, might be stuck there forever... Since, they can't see past the falsities of their beliefs?? On afterlife101.com they said those in hell will always be saved quite briefly.. Because they will be helped by guides.. They will see the truth once they asked for help..


peace [/quote]
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DaBears
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #10 - May 14th, 2007 at 6:40pm
 
recoverer wrote on May 14th, 2007 at 6:34pm:
Wow Dabears!

I didn't say that at all. If anything, I said the opposite. I was referring to what people experience during an NDE. Not what is actually true. Perhaps I need to take a writing class.



So, let me get this right.. You are saying that those stuck in the belief system of fire and brimstone hell, might be stuck there forever... Since, they can't see past the falsities of their beliefs?? On afterlife101.com they said those in hell will always be saved quite briefly.. Because they will be helped by guides.. They will see the truth once they asked for help..


peace [/quote]
[/quote]
No, recoverer my paranoia about hell was getting the best of me.. Sorry about that I see what you meant now..

Hey I liked that NDE I read it awhile ago and I'm glad you brought it back to my attention! Was he saying that Jesus is God?? God is everyone imo...
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #11 - May 14th, 2007 at 7:09pm
 

Dabears asked: Hey I liked that NDE I read it awhile ago and I'm glad you brought it back to my attention! Was he saying that Jesus is God?? God is everyone imo...
[/quote]


I don't get that impression at all. I haven't got it all figured out, but my feeling is that the Christ principle existed long before Jesus incarnated on this earth. This principle has something to do with how God manifested.  Jesus was an incarnation of this principle.  My guess is that there are places in the universe that don't use the terms "God" and "Christ."  They probably don't use the word "love" either. This doesn't mean that these principles don't exist in a manner that is way beyond what can be contained in the letters of a name.

Like you, I believe that God is everywhere. Even the computer screen you're looking at now is a part of God. What else is there?
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DaBears
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #12 - May 14th, 2007 at 7:23pm
 
recoverer wrote on May 14th, 2007 at 7:09pm:
Dabears asked: Hey I liked that NDE I read it awhile ago and I'm glad you brought it back to my attention! Was he saying that Jesus is God?? God is everyone imo...



I don't get that impression at all. I haven't got it all figured out, but my feeling is that the Christ principle existed long before Jesus incarnated on this earth. This principle has something to do with how God manifested.  Jesus was an incarnation of this principle.  My guess is that there are places in the universe that don't use the terms "God" and "Christ."  They probably don't use the word "love" either. This doesn't mean that these principles don't exist in a manner that is way beyond what can be contained in the letters of a name.

Like you, I believe that God is everywhere. Even the computer screen you're looking at now is a part of God. What else is there?
[/quote]
Yeah, I see what he was saying now..

Great to see were on the same page.. You're a great Christian.. I like how you use love in your words and not fear like most Christians!!

peace
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Re: Question about  Creating our own reality..
Reply #13 - May 15th, 2007 at 12:57pm
 
Da Bears said: Great to see were on the same page.. You're a great Christian.. I like how you use love in your words and not fear like most Christians!!


"I don't know about all Christians having fear. The Catholics I grew up with for the most part weren't motivated by fear. I've never heard them speak in terms of satan, demons, eternal damnation etc. I don't know what percentage of Christians think in such a way.

My feeling is that fear is on the same side of the fence as hate and anger, so it is better to inspire people through love. This doesn't mean you can't warn people about things that are unfavorable.  Life isn't all peaches and cream."
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