thank you Kyo, I always enjoy your posts and your interest here. love, alysia

Very well spoken Kyo, I would have to agree basically with what you stated, tho long, sometimes it takes a lot to get out what we feel..others sometimes see this as defensiveness but I don't share
that ideology at all...say what needs to be said. IMHO

We all must take what "fits"and disregard what don't..to put it plainly as I know how.

Channeling I see as attempting to decipher what is being fed to us, and unfortunately its not always totally true, can be a perception issue maybe which can alter what we get from it.

No long dialog from me...enlightenment comes from within ones self.

Love, Ricardo

Kyo wrote, Quote:

 Hmmm, you say this, but then you say this

Quote:


 Whose is to say that this is the more accurate way, such relativity cancels itself out doesn‘t it?

 I also find the below interesting.

Quote:


I’m trying to reason from your perspective, and so far I’m thinking to myself, hmm shouldn’t Kyo rather say something like instead of the above highlighted line, “then act according to your own dictates, sense of correct/incorrect, ethical, what not... for you, whatever that happens to be, agree, disagree, half agree, etc..”  

 But instead you are more or less telling us how to respond, or rather not to respond if one of us happens to disagree with you and has a desire to give a different perspective.   One possible interpretation of that is something akin to a form of very subtle psychological manipulation.    And after stating that, and if someone decides to disagree with you, then socially they may look somewhat like an *a-hole* since after all you asked people to not respond if they felt what you said was wrong to them as well as saying the below.  And it seems most of us care to some extent about what others think of us, to the point where sometimes it changes our behavior and actual actions.

Quote:


 I find it interesting when someone takes such an extreme stance of action, reaction, and interaction with their fellow selves.   There are times where it is wise, constructive, and beneficial for all involved to not engage in debate or what not (on part of the individual and/or the collective,) but then again there are times when such could be beneficial for someone or the collective.   To take a certain rigid and unchanging course of reaction/interaction in relating to your fellow beings seems to lack flexibility, relatively speaking of course.   To simplify it, it depends on where it is “coming from”, which can make it helpful and constructive, or unhelpful and non constructive.  There are times to passively flow like water, or be firm like rock, passionate like fire, and relative and breezy like air.    The true master of self, and one filled with naught but love will be all things to all people, and will change accordingly as is beneficial for each situation, person, or what not.  

Quote:


 I would agree, to some extent, we’re all perfect, but yet many of us are wearing masks of imperfection for some unknown reason.  

 Yes, you can actually have it “both ways” at the same time.   And of course there is no such thing as “perfection” when applying it to physical conditions and standards.  
 
 But spiritually there is such a thing as “perfection”, Spirit is perfect, and the more we attune to and align with that, the more of the mask we take off and let the perfect core shine through.   A much more attuned and love filled than you or I once said, “be you perfect like your Father in Heaven is perfect”.   But perhaps you don’t consider that one more consciously attuned and perfectly resonating to Source than yourself?

 There is a “standard” or an absolute, which exists at the same time as the relative, individual nature of reality.   Spirit and pure love are that standard, and some have fully realized this within themselves.  

 These could be called fully and completely “enlightened”.   If one more fully understood the objective truth of energy vibration and resonation, one might understand that the more light filled or receptive to pure light (Spirit, pure love,) one becomes, the more their inner energies and vibratory frequencies speed up.   This someday may even be measured by the mystic scientists of the future, and right now can be measured in an objective sense by some E.T. groups.  

 So, while there is no better or worse as regards individuals in a reality firmly based on the fundamental principle and truth of Oneness, there is degrees of attunement to that standard and there are some who have fully remembered or re-reached that fastest possible vibratory state of being.  Monroe met some of these and called them “completed” consciousnesses.

 Completed consciousnesses as communicated through some practically and repeatedly verified channels/psychics have stated as much though perhaps using different words or phrases.  Something tells me that they would know better than you or I, perhaps?   For their reasoning comes from being able to attune to any and all consciousnesses even simultaneously.   Such an all inclusive perspective transcends our limited, ego based perceptions by its very nature.  When you or I can actually do that, then perhaps we will really see from their perspective and not have everything be so “theoretical”.  

 Or more simply a completely, fully enlightened person is one who always treats others in a constructive, loving manner and always puts others and the collective above the individual and seemingly separated self.  This doesn’t mean they are always super nicy, nicy, however.  Sometimes firmness accompanies their underlying gentleness.

 Such a one was the man Yeshua as numerous verified, more constructive and accurate than not, sources have said quite independently of each other.  

 I find it interesting that these all independently agree on the major parts of his life which more or less reflects all the major points in the Gospels, as well as being verified in other respects, and then other much, much, much less verified channels/psychics out there completely contradict these ones as well as each other.

 Now, you can be as relative as you want and make up various excuses for why this is, and say well these are just seeing things from their own unique perspective, etc, etc. but perhaps its as simple as they are either not real entities unto themselves, eg the channel is regurgitating unconscious beliefs, ideas, etc. or they are real entities but are purposely trying to mislead people (or a mix of these two major factors) about the one of the most influential and transcendent lives ever lived, from a spiritual viewpoint.

 Interestingly some of these repeatedly verified sources have said that this person and his life, was the perfect pattern and example, why, because he lived his life perfectly in accord with and reached perfect resonation with Source energy.  

 Isn’t it interesting that those channels who charged little or no money for readings, who sought very little publicity, who were repeatedly verified in many different subjects, could answer specific questions, and had high accuracy rates in general, all say and agree that he was the fastest vibratory teacher to ever incarnate.  

 Isn’t it interesting that those who charged large amounts of money, sought publicity, were not repeatedly verified in many different areas and subjects, rarely would or could accurately answer specific questions in a holistic manner (meaning from a material, mental and spiritual perspective), all seem to have different stories for this life in major, major areas which if we humans watching on a television screen would all pretty much see the same thing?

 How people can defend, make excuses for, such channels, especially when comparing them to those sources and their info which again had repeated verifications in a holistic sense, and all agree with each other, is somewhat beyond me.  

 No doubt if Hilarion said the crucifixion, resurrection, etc. didn’t happen, well there must be some good reason of why that’s the case.   Perhaps he was just viewing this life from his own unique perspective and saw things completely differently than Cayce’s source, Rosiland McKnight’s source, Swedenborg, etc or than you and I might see it as watched and experienced it from the akashic.

 The above is what happens when someone becomes too imbalanced towards the right brain and to feminine energy within self.   Everything boils down to “what I want to believe” whether its constructive, destructive to self or to others.   Discrimination, practical pragmatic reasoning, logical analysis, and plain common sense has a tendency to be lacking.   Or in other words, there is a lack of left brain activity and awareness.  

 The left brain is just as important and necessary as the right brain, and what’s even more important is a perfect balance and merging of the two, the relative and the absolute.  

But, we as humans are any of us here at this forum, can we honestly say to ourselves and to others that we have that perfect balance?   I don’t see it, though maybe it does exist, but meanwhile using simple logical reasoning, this lack of balance infers that everything single one of us is either over balanced to the feminine or masculine by our very inherent nature.  

 Isn’t it interesting that when Bob Monroe met He/She the most mature and spiritually evolved person living in our space/time reference--someone who is physically some 1800 years or so old, that one of the first automatic things that Monroe perceived about this person was that they were perfectly balanced between the feminine and masculine energy polarities?

 Now, maybe as perfect beings wearing masks of imperfection (spiritually speaking only), as beings with ego, that its as simple as we just don’t want to believe that there is such a thing as more or less enlightened, or faster or slower vibrations, because to believe that is compare ourselves to that ultimate and absolute standard and yes we feel the lack when we consider it and our ego doesn’t like it.  

 Therefore it becomes easier on our imperfect masks, our egos to convince ourselves that there is no standard and no absolute, that EVERYTHING is relative.

 But yet those so rare Souls who have completely torn down their masks of imperfection have told us rather point blanc and overtly that there is a standard, an absolute, and that if you as an individual ever want to be completely happy, fulfilled, and at peace again that you must become a perfect channel of that energy, that consciousness again.  

  One of those teachers said, you must become like me, if you are to know Source like I know Source (for like always begets and attracts like).  This was not a wishy washy teacher who preached that everything was relative like Kyo here.  Yes, he did say that one must follow the dictates of one’s own conscience, and act accordingly, but he also told us that we have both constructive and destructive aspects of us, that we have the perfect core and the imperfect masks, and these want, do, and say different things.  

 Are you going to listen to Hilarion and to Kyo, or are you going to listen to one who is parroting the words and teachings of that fully aligned to Source teacher, and to those verified psychic sources who hold him as the perfect pattern for humanity, the only perfect pattern for humanity, the ideal who achieved a holistic balance that no public teacher has?  

 There is a difference between these teachings, choose what you will align too.   That choice is always before us every mili-second of the day and yes, it is relative to our own unique and individual consciousnesses, but also as parts of a Whole.   One choice and voice is from ego and is the easier choice, for it is the louder voice.  The other one holds us responsible to ourselves and to others always.  It also says that right now, while we are essentially perfect, almost all of us humans are “covering” up and distorting that perfection, and that we need to phase back into that for all to be healthy, happy, and whole again.  Because at the end of the day, its about the collective and once the individual realizes that and starts to really live it on all levels of their life, then they have a shot at becoming truly “enlightened” beyond just believing, “well I‘m perfect and don‘t need to change at all“.   Of course your ego wants you to believe that, it’s that collective attitude, spirit, and doingness of mass separative selfishness which has manifested the physical dimension to begin with, the plane of imperfection, distortion, and of cut offness in consciousness from Source/Spirit.  

 And yes, i do believe my view is the more "accurate" and balanced view because it comes from those above sources which were checked against and agree with my own conscience.   Whether or not this is objectively so, who knows.  

 Also, anytime we preach to others like you have in the above or like i have, of course we are trying to convince, convert, etc. people to our own viewpoint, otherwise if we didn't think our viewpoint or perspective was more accurate or what not than anothers, we would just keep our thoughts to ourselves.  Otherwise Yeshua would not have taught and preached.

 Self honesty is a very important trait i believe.

Thank you AhSo, for writing what you wrote.

I too see subtle manipulation from Kyo that serves the purpose of preying on people who don't take the time to see where he's coming from.

I wonder why nobody considers George's experience below.

"You can add hilarion also.He told me I was harold smyth on the titanic.I was told he told cpt smith,that we have hit an iceberg and we are taking on water.I looked up the list of officers,but there was no harold smyth on the titanic.Stay clear of channeling,Its false.George."

I guess some people can just take it for granted that when Jon Fox states that he channels Jesus Christ, he in fact does. I for one, can't.

On another thread I asked Kyo what Hillarion has to say about the crucifixion. He stated that it doesn't matter. I don't see how a person who has love, reverence and loyalty for Christ, can make such a comment.  I wonder why Kyo won't take a stand on Jon Fox's/Hillarion's thoughts on the matter.

Kyo,

Thanks for your perspective. I appreciate it.


E.

 Thank you for your input Alysia.  Haven't had much p.c. time lately, otherwise i would have replied back earlier.  

LaffingRain wrote on Apr 29^th, 2007 at 5:54pm:


 I don't doubt it.  I both like and respect Kyo, and think he's a force for good on this forum.   However, doesn't mean i always agree with him or the beliefs and ideas he promotes.   To me, there is nothing wrong with giving a different and contrary perspective.  To me, its more about how you do it.  My way is that i try to balance between being both honest/real/authentic and considerate/respectful at the same time.   I've done the repression thing, and found it doesn't work for me.  

Quote:


 As Kyo pointed out in his above post, there are many ways to look at anything.  I haven't ever rebuked channeling here, and have defended it, but at the same time trying to interject more left brain balance with it or what some call "groundedness".   My sense is that Kyo's above post is slightly imbalanced to the right brain polarity, and so those that are imbalanced to the right brain read his post and say "right on" or something similar.   Like attracts and begets like in operation.

 I'm not trying to be degrading when i say that.  I believe we all here are imbalanced to some extent, me very much included.   I'm open to the possibility that i'm speaking from my imbalance to the left brain polarity since i know i'm not perfectly balanced like the person He/She that Monroe met.    But, neither do i get the sense that Kyo is like He/She either, and its all about balance.   I was trying to balance out his post.

Quote:


 Kyo is a big boy Alysia, there is no realistic need to mommy him.  If people are still at the point where they are "run off" by one or two people who disagree with them (and its not like i was being very personal or negative with it either), they have a lot to learn about life, ego, real self, themselves, and relationships.    I think Kyo is much more mature than that.  

Quote:


 Yup for the first part, each part in the Whole has its place.  Yes, my intention was to give a different perspective on something which i believe is an important subject.   A teacher, a real and very attuned to Source teacher whom at least a few verified sources both psychic and historical have called as such, warned us about our times and how illusionary and maya filled they would be.
He essentially said to keep our eyes, hears, and hearts open and to discriminate between those who would mislead out of ego's space, or those who had the intentions to try to help out of love for the Whole and for individuals.  He said to look to their fruits to really know if they were of a more constructive or non-constructive intention to begin with.  

 This warning to me, very much pertains to channeling as well since channelers act as teachers of "truth" (and he specifically warned us of those who would act in the capacity of teachers).   Yes, i do agree with Kyo that truth can and often is quite "relative", but i think the equation has two major parts or two polarities ever balancing each other into infinity.

  However, not one person has answered this question.  What are we too think, when 3 rather holistically verified and tested psychic sources, along with most historical sources all agree on the major parts of a teachers life, but yet then some psychic sources both disagree with the agreed upon version of both the verified psychic sources and major history, and then also disagree with each other?  

  Should such things like that, not stop and make us think and use our left brain side a little more and say, "hmm well logically that doesn't make sense if these psychic sources are authentic and of a helpful motivation".    And this is only one example, forget the fact that most of these also severely lack holisitic and repeated verifications in any subject, and mostly stick to "philosophizing" which obviously cannot be checked or verified in a holisitic sense (that which includes both material, mental, and spiritual perspectives).

 I think Kyo is unrealisitically and illogically defending such sources.   He's trying to make to many excuses for them, everything from, "we all have our own unique perspectives" to *truth is complely relative anyways".  

 I think that there are also to other possible reasons for this.  1. is that the people who are channeling or acting as psychics in some respect, aren't as psychically attuned as they think they are and want others to think they are (and of course for a price and a rather large one in many cases) and/or 2. if they really do have nonphysical sources, then some of these are of a misleading and destructive nature and intent.

Quote:


 Nah, i'm not trying to pick a fight.  Kyo said he would not respond to any differing opinions and i took him to mean what he said when and before i posted.  I did not expect him to reply, and as i said, i was offering a different perspective and way to reason than he in some respects.  

 However, with that said, i also saw some contradictions between what he was preaching and what he said or acted like.   I always find it amusing when someone tells us that there is no truth or untruth, no right or wrong, and then proceedes to try to get us to see the more accurate way.  

 As i talked about in the above, i was trying to foster more balance with my differing perspectives.  Thing is, there was much that i did agree with in Kyo's post, and had i had more time i would have pointed out more where i did agree with him.   I have no problem with Kyo as a person, and i don't have much of a issue with Hilarion either though i'm not completely sold on the authenticity and holistic accuracy of same.  

 Think about it this way for a moment, if you will: as human beings who have limited ourselves and our perception capacity and who are essentially "stuck" within a dimension which means and translates to "stuckness" to begin with, we have a strong and abiding tendency to give more weight to what a nonphysical source has to say.  

 Look at history, and many cultures and you will see an undue reverence, superstition, and adulation to anything remotely smacking of nonphysical sources and information, from the oracles of ancient Greece, to Shamans, to the initiate Priests and Priestesses of Egypt, etc.   We, as a collective, as humanity have not completely lost this innate reaction.    It is also plain to see that the huge majority of people throughout history have primarily been more "followers" than leaders whether a self leader or leader of others.  

 Put those two major factors together, and you have a lot of people who if they are open to it to begin with, somewhat hang on the words of todays prophets and teachers, of whom many now are knowns as "channelers, psychics," etc.  

 Many of us have dropped the priests of the largely patriarchal dogmatic religions to substitute these with the new priests who now have different titles.  

 Also consider how much the new age has become a rather profitable business nowadays.  The sales of spiritual, metaphysical, and such books seem to be increasing every year.   This i believe is ultimately a good thing, and yet we also need to keep in mind that its become a business just like religion became a business so long ago as well.  

 In other words, the situation is ripe for those who would take advantage of people, both monetarily and otherwise.   We have always had cons, and they follow the money.   Or sometimes they have different motives than purely monetarily, sometimes its an ego trip, they want to be known as a channel for wise, enlightened beings not of this world.  They want people to look up to them, to be seen as somehow special or different, and hey why not get paid at the same time?  

 Then there are those more or less sincere people who would act as channels, but who get conned and mislead by misleading nonphysical sources--or sometimes they are just kind of ignorant and looking for a soap box, and such sources love to speak on the Christ and how he wasn't all he was cracked up to be and certainly didn't do those seemingly miraculous things that some dusty books and more holistically and repeatedly verified sources say he did.   His life was lead for us, more so than just for himself, and sources who would smear his accomplishments, his very meaning to humanity (outside of religion), are not to be trusted and overtly listened to.  If they are so off about such a major thing as a simply a person's life and the major events which are easy to interprete more or less collectively in the same or similar way, then why should they be trusted or listened too?

 And of course, everyone has to make up their own mind about these things.  I cannot "force" anyone to my beliefs, no do i want too, yet i would be lying to myself, and to others if i said i have no wish to faciliate belief changes.   If i didn't, and didn't think such things were important to begin with, i would just keep my thoughts to myself.   And so, like Kyo, i'm giving my perspective on things, but honestly saying in the hopes of maybe getting at least someone to think about things differently.

 

LaffingRain wrote on Apr 29^th, 2007 at 5:54pm:



   Yes Alysia, and i wouldn't ever subtly suggest, preach too, or tell you in any way to not voice your beliefs, opinions and feelings even if it might contradict my own.   Wouldn't dream of telling you something like that before hand.   I'm glad you shared your opinions, beliefs, and feelings though they disagree with my own. 

  Communication is the very stuff of love, and yes while we all communicate with each other and the entirety of creation on other levels than physical and verbal, most of us are largely unconscious to those other types of communications and so physical and verbal communication is still very important for us as beings focussing on/in this dimension.   

  Frankly i'm surprised that no one took issue with Kyo's subtle *suggestion* to not respond if you disagree with what he was saying.   Disagreeing and giving different perspectives is not always a waste of time, and shouldn't always be avoided because of the supposed inference of "conflict" or of wasting time on completely unimportant or unproductive things.   Yes, i do see and agree that its rare for debate or the likes to be always be purely constructive.

  In any case, i've pretty much said all there is to say regarding warnings in regards to channeling, and if i continue i would be beating a dead horse though i'm sure i've probably repeated myself here and there a bit.   So, i'm not going to continue talking about channeling in this sense, especially not specifically of those like Seth, etc. or in a specific manner either. 

  Channeling may still come up in general ways, if i feel moved to talk about it, but that's because regardless of the authentic vs unauthentic and helpful vs misleading issue (which i've mostly consistently broached), channeling and acting as a psychic channel is a much more complex phenomena than i believe many give it credit for.    I tried to outline some of the major factors in another thread that i rarely see people ever mention, but i got very little response on that thread.  Maybe the simplistic and one size fits all versions are more fun to think about.


  Hey there Recoverer, good to see you around and smiling.   I'm thinking of changing my tag simply to "Ah Poo" as to reflect the predominant (?) attitude though.        See you around. 

    Ah Poo