recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2007 at 3:18pm:


 Thanks for the further info Recoverer.  It seems i too did not know exactly what an "Avatar" was according to Indian definitions.  Just always assumed it was someone who came in (born from) an unusually expanded and fast vibrating consciousness state and who would play a direct teaching type role.   Something that i would attribute to someone coming in from the Solar or Arcturian dimensions.  Uncommon, but only relatively speaking.

 Then an Avatar had a pretty good chance of becoming a fully enlightened Master type or close to in that life, or something similar along those lines.  In Robert Monroe's biography, some folks who knew him refer to him as an "Avatar" but it seems they also don't know the more traditional definition of the word.   There's more than a wee bit of personality worship in his biography (not Monroe's fault by any means), but its an interesting book nonetheless.

 Anyways, didn't realize the whole "avatar" thing it was a form of oneupmanship like that.   Wonder why people can't settle for being parts of God, which can choose to become one with Source by being like Source?   But no, i'm "special" and i'm God directly reincarnated, while you're not???    That doesn't make any sense to me anyways.  

 I mean i do believe that as children of Source with Freewill, we all are at different rates and degrees of growth towards pure Source consciousness, but i don't think anyone is ultimately more special than anyone else and the destiny of each Total self/Disc is the same for everyone though we all make our arrivals at different moments relatively speaking.

 Anyways, that guy that i mentioned earlier--the one i had had problems with, had a very strong "guru wannabe" vibe to him, and no surprise he is so into the Indian/Vedic traditions.   Apparently he decided that i needed him as my guru, and wouldn't leave me alone.    When i stopped responding to him on the public part of the site because i finally became fed up with and intolerant towards him, he started to p.m. me.  Interestingly, he almost never said one positive or uplifting thing to, or about me but said plenty of very negative, judgemental and critcal things...hmmm that's how enlightened folks act though.

 In a sense, i did consider him a "teacher" but not in the way that he thought he was or wanted to be to me (and wanted me to think of him).   Helped me with attachment issues.  Anyone i have problems and personality clashes with, i tend to consider as teachers.   Well anyways, thanks again.

Berserk wrote on Apr 24^th, 2007 at 11:36pm:

I've already been open minded by the fact I've read books about demons.. So, I don't think I should read this book.. IF, it caused a guy insomnia I don't want that... With my already ocd problem..

Ghosts are what cause possesions not demonic entities..  By calling my belief system the New Age Ghetto.. That is very disrespectful.. I want you to stop that!

Sorry  I don't think any book about demons will change my point of view.. I just don't see why God would create demons..

Berserk wrote on Apr 25^th, 2007 at 7:18pm:

Alright, I'll read it... I told you I have already read books about demons that argue they do exist.. But if this book will blow me away like you say, I'll give it a try..

Is this book going to be at the nearest library or what?? Do I have to buy it?

You also, forget to remember that I was raised Catholic and went to a legit Catholic High School.. So, I know all about demons my friend.. So, I started researching other religions and Spiritualism, and New Age.. The one that rings more with truth to me is the New Age and Spiritualism..

peace

Over the past few years, I have pursued readings in several areas including studies/books on the nature of consciousness, OOBEs, NDEs and what may be called New Age thought.  I have also reviewed parts of Judaism and been open to hearing about Christianity from various sources, including Don.  One of the most common recurring themes I have encountered is that on a spiritual quest, direct experience over an extended period of time is the most important and rewarding way to advance one's own spirituality.

This is why I added comments to the "who is Elias" thread.  Many can get lost if immersed in the written word so much that they debate chapter and verse of any one earthly or channeled source at the expense of experiencing love and grace on their own (this was not directed at any forum member).  Don has written of his own personal experiences of divine love; to me they are far more important (though no less interesting) than his interpretation of New Testament scripture.  With this as a prologue, I now direct my comments at Alex and the insistence on reading Martin's "Hostage to the Devil." 

Alex, if you take a New Age view that demons are only misguided humans, and that their evil disappears in a poof when they recognize it, then reading Martin's text may be important.  If these disturbing accounts of five cases of possession are what is needed to convince you, so be it.  If, on the other hand, your view of the universe allows for the notion of evil, and you don't need convincing, I am not certain of how this book will forward your spiritual quest. 

If most sources point toward love and PUL as being the driving force of the divine and heaven, one can conclude that evil stems from the converse: distancing oneself from the divine, and a lack of love (or presence of hate).  I am still not sure how the notions of good and evil, right and wrong - the duality of the physical and spiritual planes, meld into a unity of all things, but on a higher level, there is a synthesis of this dualism, much as the yin/yang sign has within it two fish, one black and one white which together make up a perfect circle. 

One does not need to indulge in evil, or explore its reality to know it exists and is real.  If I believe our consciousness is independent of the physical world, then I believe other consciousness/entities are out there in the nonphysical realms.  Exploring possession does not forward my spiritual quest if it does not somehow push me to be more in line with the love of heaven.  When the movie "The Exorcist" came out in the 1970s, men and women ran out of the theaters screaming.  There were reports of true miscarriages induced by the horror of the movie (much of which was enhanced with innumerable visual and audio subliminal messages to enhance the sense of fear and horror).  I saw nothing positive that came out of the rellease of that movie. 

There are potential down sides to reading these five very disturbing very detailed cases of possession.  I have read reviews of the book where readers began to read too much of the demonic into their own actions, and became frightened and lost for a time.  Only a well balanced mind can maintain the proper perspective to digest these cases and not suffer from fear related consequences.  Fear begets fear and usually leads away from love.  Bruce describes this quite well on this site; in fact it is said that fear and love can not coexist, and in many instances, when love is used to banish fear, I believe this is true.

So read Malachi Martin if you need convincing, but pursue your spiritual quest toward love and God on your own, through your actions with others, meditation and exploration.  If you don't need convincing about the reality of evil, do not read Martin just to satisfy Don's challange.

Matthew

well said Doc. I 3rd the motion and just add that studying evil is to study the problem, but to neglect the solution..to focus in the direction where, as the Christians will say, your salvation lies. it's really hard to be afraid of something if you're concentrating on revealing love.
amazing grace is almost here, let the sun shine.

Roger,

I appreciate your words.  I have no desire to delve into Martin's book right now, not because I dismiss it (this is where I think some go astray), but on the contrary, because I acknowledge the awfulness of the possessions and believe that discarnate entities exist with both angelic and malefic personal agendas.  I am still uncertain whether knowing that on one levell evil exists will ever convince a New Ager that their cosmology is flawed.  The existential suppositions and systems already have explanations within them to account for discarnate entities or "negs," in the astral way of speaking.  

I should also point out that when reading any text, the possible agendas of the author, along with their truthfulness and character may impact the writing of the text in an obvious or subtle way.  More on this with regard to Martin later...

If I can get through my current reading on NDEs (which I plan to post more on in the near future), I might at some point come back to Martin's book for a read.  But I think what you are hearing is that this forum has more open minded people than some give it credit for.  Many do not doubt the existence of these possessions or the demonic.  Some of us simply want to know, if we are in agreement with you and Don as to the existence of evil, what we have to gain from going through and immersing ourselves in the experience.

Matthew

Does it really matter what the origins of a dark spirit are? Spirit energy is spirit energy, and darkness is darkness. Sometimes human beings become quite dark even when they are in the body. Insane-animal like behavior, hate, anger, rage, perversion, ill will, and irreverence towards the divine are ways of being that just about any spirit can live according to if for whatever reason it ends up doing so. I say just about, because there is no way God will go dark and I doubt that his angels can.

When it comes to the five Martin cases, what are the circumstances that led to each possession?