My first book about this matter was Raymond A. Moody's "Life After Death", it made NDEs known to a wider audience.

The most recent book I finished was the one you mentioned Kroan, "Astral Dynamics". Yes it has many good tips, NEW is good, to look if you are REALLY bodily relaxed is good as well, the trance state chapter etc...
What would be interesting though is a comparison of OBE and the phasing-type of thing where you're still aware of your body. I guess Robert Bruce would put the latter in his category of "astral sight".
Also, once I found me body-asleep-mind-awake in my bed after a dream, and I felt, I knew, someone came in my room, laying down on my bed behind me and melted with my body, causing a fresh cool breeze feeling within me. I never had a really good explanation for this until I read Robert Bruces theory about OBEs, that the different bodies are to some degree independent.
Some of his theories though, I don't know, they must not necessarily be true, there are other possible explanations, it's his way to get his rich experiences in a system.

What really got me on the train, so to speak, were Monroe's and Bruce Moen's books.

Spooky

Hi Kroan,
I recommend all books of Monroe and Bruce Moen, it would be really worthwile to read them in their proper timely succession, first Monroes, then Moens.

Robert Bruce: Yes, realtime sight... the advantage of RS to OoBE would be less trouble with memorizing it, and less fear, disadvantage perhaps less impressing, less "real".

I'll check out the methods RB tells of. One seems for certain, it's not easy. But I really wonder if you can't get similar results by choosing the "phasing" way of TMI and Bruce Moen, and then gradually try to get more "inside" it. Robert Bruces, so to say, very "bodily" approach could be just a chosen belief- or translation- system. This are questions which are worth a research I find.

Spooky

Hi Kroan,

the chronologic order is:

R.A. Monroe
-Journeys out of the body
-Far journeys
-Ultimate Journey

Bruce Moen
-Voyages into the unknown
-Voyage beyond doubt
-Voyages into the afterlife
-Voyage to curiosity's father
-Afterlife knowledge guidebook

That's quite a lot to read; as you have just read a book with many "how to" hints, you might take Bruce Moens latest book at first, "Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook", it's also a "how to" book, not especially for mastering OBEs, but rather for the softer "phasing" method, where you stay partially here in C1, but your main focus is, well, otherwhere. This state is easier to achieve (for most people) than OBEs. Although, Bruce's method can be helpful for having OBEs as well.

Spooky

Kroan - I agree with Spooky about reading the books chronologically.  The exception is Bruce's Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook.  For the rest of the books, both Monroe's and Bruce's explain their experiences.  It's more helpful if you've read the first book before the next one, etc.  If your primary interest is OBE, then try Monroe's first book.  It was his Journeys Out of Body that led to everything else.

Rob

Thanks Rob and Lucy I just ordered the 1st book yesterday and i'm about to check out that freebee link you just posted

  The hardest thing for me to overcome is falling asleep while doing my obe work. I used not have a problem with this but lately it seems that everytime I close my eyes within 15 mins im out cold.  Im gona have to try to set up some quiet times in the morning/ afternoon where I can do  my obe's when i'm not so tired. Everyone says not to attempt obe's in your bed but sometimes the only quiet time you can find is when you are about to goto sleep.  To date i've only had 1 fully conscious obe where I first heard the high pitch ringing in my head, then saw flashes of light and then the shwoosh pop and Whoooahh im out omg check this out, wait i cant move, this seems scary, i tried to turn my head and whamm I was back in my body. Thats only happened once for me. I've had 2 other experiences where I had obes that were achieved through the dream state where I woke up in my dream and started flying arouynd etc  but that wasnt really an obe i mean I cant tell for sure if it was an obe or a dream since they started as a dream.   Anyway i'm somewhat obsessed with duplicating my 1st experience and learning how to attain full control while im out!

Thanks Alyssia,  Yea thats the thing, if you keep trying and trying eventually it will happen. I am SOOO thankful for my 1 experience because it has created all my intrest in this subject. If I never had my 1 experience I know I would have given up by now, I would have thought that everything I read was a bunch of nonsense.  Thank god for my 1 experience

Hi Alysia. I am puzzling over, what is the relationship between "phasing" and OBE? In phasing, we travel with the mind and really, there is ONLY mind, or is that right, do you think? Everything is created by Mind, right? Including the physical and Second Body and other bodies. When we pass over, at first we keep our general physical appearance and shape, only younger I hear, and eventually transform into our real shape, which is pure light. So if we have an OBE, it must be our mind creating our second body for us to travel in...but it can travel perfectly well without any body at all...so um, I get really tangled up in this...do you have any insights? Thanks! Vee

I think you explained it very well Spooky.  From what I understand, this is how Bruce explained phasing to me...Think of all parts of your self in all their perspectives simultaneously existing, with your physical self being where you are mainly consciously focused.  Phasing would be shifting more of your focus of awareness on another perspective, I guess kind of like tuning into a different frequency. 

I tend to look at the feeling of out of body experiences as the same concept as phasing, only with a different feeling of perception.  You know how Bruce's continuum of nonphysical sight has one end being seeing as knowing and the other end being just-like-physical eyesight seeing?  But he says that one type of perception is no more real than another?  I think of phasing and OBEs as being on such a continuum.  The out of body experience doesn't mean the experience is more real than a phasing experience, it just has a different feeling of perception. 

I hope I'm explaining all this the right way.  It's still very confusing to me, but I'm slowly working on grasping it!

Hi,

quote Vee: "when I phase, like in retrievals, I am present in a fully colored, brilliant landscape complete with sight, smells, tastes, hearing, etc, but when I am OBE like the other night outside my house in the street, it was very gray"
That's interesting. I thought it's likely that the more one feels like "in" the scene, meaning the more it is an OBE, the more it tends to be very vivid, "real". This seems not to be the case. Robert Bruce also tells of "weak" OBEs, due to a lack of energy. In one OBE I was out of my upper physical body, my physical body sound asleep on the bed. I looked around, then decided to go back into my body consciously to remember it and write it down. When I was back in my physical body and opened my eyes, it was exactly like I've seen it out of (physical) body, only the light while OBE seemed to be more ambient, softer, more dim, but only a little bit.
My mind journeys are not so sensual vivid, so I'm always trying to find a way for more "resolution".
By the way, "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce has a lot of tips, it's especially for having and remembering OBEs. I'm still trying the methods. He has his own viewpoint how it works, but he not wrote anything about Monroe and phasing, and how this would fit in his theory.

quote Vee: "where you don't hear a thing but the information comes in a Monroe ROTE, and you just know stuff."
Yes, that's the usual way for me to perceive "there", first I "know" something, then I can make it visual, like a blurry, moving sketch or graphic. The problem with this is, I really can become sceptic about it, because the process of making it visible or hearable is done by me, so it's easy to come to think I made it up. But, on the other hand, I had to be VERY creative to make it all up by myself, within just a little moment.

quote Vee: "I have to be spoon-fed symbolism and slow information like a baby"
What happens when you try to communicate in words or pictures? Would they understand? Sometimes I as well get symbolic messages. When I ask a question, and I sense no one whom I ask, then an answer usually comes in form of a little movie, or cartoon, or graphic. Sometimes as well playing with words (like I see an eye, and the meaning is "I"). Or what would happen if you imagine you have a means of direct connection, like a data wire, or tube, or you just think strongly of telepathy or so? Maybe you could then skip the slow symbology way for something faster. But maybe it is just appropriate as it is now for some reason.

quote Vee: "how much energy it takes to FOCUS"
Yes, sometimes it's hard, and sometimes it's really a kind of energetic process. This is, I find, confusing, and different to an OBE, where the physical body is sound asleep:
Sometimes I really force myself to focus, when I feel like, and when I feel like I CAN do it. This is, paradoxically, accompanied with lots of energy which makes me very fast moving all the time in the nonphysical, very fastly from this location to that, here some informations, there some words; in retrievals I can't move away, that's hard, it's like there's tension building up then.
Now, because I'm not OBEing here, this force of focusing and fast movement is bleeding through to my body, causing tension everywhere, sometimes even pain, so this is counterproductive to holding the focus. Nonetheless, these (over)active states are the ones in which I gain the most informations/impressions/stories. After it I often feel like I had for hours worked very concntrated, just like after a math classroom test or so, pressure on the head, and more or less tensioned.
This would not happen while OBEing I presume, at least not from my experiences, as my physical body while OBE was as sound asleep as it could be.

Spooky

P.S. Vicky, look into the dream section, "Papa Legba", I posted a little dream fragment there.

Vee wrote on Apr 30^th, 2007 at 9:29am:



Hi there guys..great comments, didn't know y'all were here, didn't get a notice! love talking about obes and phasing Vee.

first Vee, if you see colors and smell, taste, all that, u are way ahead of me! I one of the gray area people with occassional message of word formation and symbol interpretor I can ok at that.

the relationship between phasing and obe, might be like the relationship between regular dream and lucid dream, both are dreams, but you are more participatory in the lucid dream, as is a sense "I am now in my dream, having this experience."
where in the dream theres is just some symbols you recall, and maybe some vague feelings.

there in only mind you said. so I'm trying to follow you. we could see it as mind/Mind.

C1 versus non/physical reality or  physical matter/nonphysical matter
all as energy.  Mind energy.  physical matter is frozen energy as analogy. it vibrates more slowly, but is still in movement.

where the other bodies we speak of are of a finer vibrating matter. like when a fan is moving it's blades very fast you cannot define the blades in there but when you turn off the current, you see that there is blades.
its because of the fast vibration movement we do not see ghosts or spirits usually with naked eye.

then you ask everything is created by mind right?
collective mind creates are reality because we agree that the world is round. so it is round because we agreed. but when it was flat, we all agreed it was flat. so everything is created by mind in that sense of perceptions, both physical and nonphysical senses.

In a way I guess you're right, we create our other bodies, as vehicles of consciousness, and we use form as we please. but objectively creating our other bodies, that is another matter altogether; it would be like the exerise of creating our own special place "There."

I suppose. one time when I phased and was just "there" I was just mind, I knew I was just mind, a spark of awareness, so I wondered what to do to get the person's attention as I had no form. I was tiny in comparison with the person also, sooo...I just kept thinking how I might do this, then I could see him so clearly, he was so good looking, I kept smiling at him, he was so sad, but I couldn't make myself appear, but somehow he picked up my thoughts and looked at me...I don't know what I looked like to him, I thought I was just a dancing light in front of his eyes..this could be the case.

so I considered that my first phasing experience as I was just there suddenly after setting my intention to do a retrieval.

hope that helps. the obes I hardly have them because I don't even try. but I understand people here want to do obes and I used to want to do them .

I still go obe once in 2 or 3 months. I'm meeting a friend out there once in awhile. we act out scenes and I interpret them once I wake up in association with my belief systems.
but these are like subjective and involuntary sequences and I wouldn't call it phasing, more of an obe, but not a lucid dream, more than a lucid dream due to the unpredictability of it.

I read your posts are very good. you are doing just as good as us, so don't think we know everything!!!  love, alysia

yea, Vee, it seems C1 is not the "real" us. I'm with you there kiddo! well, we are real enough in the sense I'm using these here fingers to connect with you over a device like the internet but theres a whole lot more to us than what we do right here in this moment.

wow, that was some cat story! I love it! so she entered your mind field and walked around in there! lol!!  reminds me that she's what is called "your familiar."

way way back in time a witch was thought to be evil because they flew out of their bodies, as in astral, so folks couldn't figure out how they flew. they invented the broomstick I suppose to portray this astral travel stuff.
then this witch character would often take their cat with them and you see a picture of this cat riding with the astral traveler alias the witch. your story reminded me how close you and your cat are.

once in an obe where I was to meet a new friend in a new town, she came as a wolfe and morphed into a beautiful woman.
the symbol of the wolfe was wild and free and independent, and when I met her she came with 4 dogs and a wild and free nature, at one with all nature creatures as depicted in my dream, so I can see you and your cat were made for each other, to teach each other things, she's already led you into some mysteries! you are one lucky cat owner!

love, alysia

omygod Vee, a crying cat..I almost thought she had ingested something? but I suppose not, as you would have known this.
that was heartbreaking. I hope Louise can feel important doing some other job?

well a short story for your pleasure. I moved recently into a one room granny flat in back of my daughter and I have my other daughters big white alley cat we rescued from the ally as a kitten.

so he needs to make huge adjustment to move from his birth place. so he thinks he owns me, right? anyhoo I put up this mirror and he knows I'm busy on the puter and this mirror is right beside me; he looks into it and sees my reflection and stares, then he knows he can't be pawing on me, so instead he's smart, to get my attention he begins to claw the mirror with my reflection in it..I end up chasing him arond the room lol. he's so stubborn.

give Louise a big kiss and scratch on the chin. love, alysia

I don't know about the smarter bit Vee but he was called Caliche which is either means hot, or a frozen yogurt. since he had fleas a lot before I came along, the girls called him Flea. then somehow they called him nomyah, some term of endearment. this cat has had an NDE, just so we can stay on topic. love to you!

ok Vee thats funny

wow Vee thats a loaded question u just asked!! I wonder since I'm moderator on the book page club, I can get away with being completely off topic?

sure why not. say, do u want the short or the long version? I'll try for the short, but when you get to roadsign 25 it kind of helps u tie in things to answer not all questions, but some, as concerning DP.

I was under 21 and a somewhat popular psychic, Thelma Moss was my teacher and counselor regarding other lives and aspect affiliates therein, whatever, she was in the language of past lives, and we here have graduated to simultaneous lives. so that helps immensely to figure out who the heck is DP? she called him me.

she didn't specify it as a he. I'm the one conjectured must be a man because he really messed up bad (this is going to sound silly, due to my mood) because its men the ones who mess up bad. ( I apologize, I'm being facetious)
she told me of a bunch of lives. this one broke my heart though and bothered me a little.

so years go by I don't think of these things at all. one day I'm about ready to write my book and wondering about how to order the chapters so I can make it cohesive and all that, and whether I'm going to go as first person narrative...

so I'm sitting in my back yard some 40 years after Thelma gave me that reading and DP pops in my head and says "it was I who was always with you from the start."
then he starts writing through me the first few chapters, but they got scratched as his style of writing was not my style..it was stilted, polite, 1910 type penning, sometimes poetic but all in all, he's a fuddy duddy.

so I laughed out loud. I was getting the idea I should include him in my book and that he and I were like one, but two separate people we would portray for amusement and learning. since we are merged, like higher self, he might be considered at times to be, I had to do some work, like retrieval work in order to merge the aspects and thats where RS 25 comes in handy.

these parts of us, like DP, are like memory bleed thrus that come in the heart area, where we can think of energy as feelings containing the whys and the wherefores of another time and place which helped you become who you are today.

you're not in that body which once lived a life, but u are intimate with this person who did live so that you begin to love yourself within the painful mystery of accepting your own failings. then love causes the understanding and forgiveness and merging of all our many selves. we are all one anyway.

such folly to consider that a personality would go into the recycle bin, I think we can have access to all we have been and all we have done.
DP wrote in his other life. he loves to write. too bad i won't let 'em!! haha!