It has been asked, "how do we know our spiritual experiences are real, as opposed to delusions and wishful thinking?"  Lucid dreams appear absolutely real and convincing, yet may have no basis in physical reality.  Bruce encourages us to use our imagination in the process of retrieving stuck souls or communicating with a deceased loved one; yet I can imagine an infinite variety of conversations to have with grandma, creating a two way dialogue in my mind, right now and I would be the sole author of these creative writing essays - or woud I?

For me, the journey begins with understanding consciousness and thought and what it can and can not do.  I have come to believe in what Dave here has called the primacy of consciousness - that my conscious mind is the chicken, and my physical existence, the egg.  I searched for proof of this, and proof that we are more than our physical bodies.  I found out much over the past several years.  A compelling amount of evidence shows us that thought creates reality.  Oh, I know that this sounds like the channeled Seth material, and for those of you who don't like that -  sorry, but Seth/Jane Roberts became popular because there was a kernel of truth in the writings.

Thoughts are constantly embedding themselves onto our subconscious and effecting probabilities and outcomes on the physical world.  This is most obvious to us when we take an action based on the thought (duh), however a close examination of our lives shows that our deepest thoughts/beliefs tend to manifest in our daily lives.  This has been pointed out, and labeled "the law of attraction."  Many self help books have capitalized on this law, and made a lot of motivational speakers and "life coaches" a lot of money.  Ah well.  However, any thinking man or woman, when given enough introspection can verify this concept to be true.  It is not the fleeting thoughts, the "wishes" which manifest, but our deepest thoughts, presented to the subconscious (and hence the universe - aka Carl Jung's shared subconscious), tend to manifest themselves.  We reach our greatest hopes and fall to our greatest weakensses in this manner by indulging in deep subconscious beliefs.

The P.E.A.R. laboratory in Princeton ( http://www.princeton.edu/~pear) for 30 years studied the effect of consciousness on physcial phenomenon.  People in single groups or in pairs sat in front of machines formulated to generate random numbers.  Time after time, it was shown that human thought/intent had a small, but significant effect on the outcome of these machines.  If you toss a coin 1000 times, in general you get 500 heads and 500 tails.  Statistically PEAR showed that the intent of an observer altered these coin tosses by a tiny percent.  Paired human beings, especially those who shared an emotional bond, had a much more profound effect on the outcome of these machines.  These studies were unbiased, scientific and published in peer-reviewed scientific journals.  Sometimes, intention caused the opposite reaction to occur in the machines on for some observers.  But a change was documented in the real world.  

Masaru Emoto has shown that as water crystallizes, intentions expressed around it effect the subsequent appearance of microscopic water crystals on a photograph.  His photojournalist essays are truly staggering, and so are the implications.  When water is slowly frozen and observer tags the container with certain words, such as "love" or "gratitude," the subsequent beauty of the crystals formed is in stark contrast to crystals formed with hateful or vindictive thoughts or words.  Further, there has been some evidence that water consumed after a blessing may have certain health benefits due to the power of conscious intention.  The idea of "saying grace" before a meal may have profound implications for our health.

If thought creates reality, how does it work?  It appears to be the impression of thought, while in deep meditation or profound relaxation on our subconscious.  Fleeting thoughts, or thoughts with doubt (what Kathy here terms "cross purpose" thought) has little to no impression on the subconscious or effect on reality.  Thought that enters our subconscious as CONVICTION or firm belief, is usually translated in the real world.  We are told by astral explorers that this translation of thought into reality is much easier in the spiritual planes.

Now to get back to that conversation with grandma, or the retrievals done here.  The same rules should apply.  We may use the imagination method to get the party started, so to speak.  But when deep in meditation, when thought is focused and true intent or conviction is applied, that which followed, which is experienced in general should be real.  We usually know this in an after death communication (ADC) by knowing in our core that it is so (the knowing of experience).  Albert has mentioned this in his retrieval experiences.  A conversation only done in our imagination, with cross purpose thought and whimsy may or may not have had an effect on the spiritual plane.  The initial use of the imagination method applied with conviction, and followed by an observational period has a much better chance of working.

I asked in another thread what the quote about the faith of a mustard seed meant in the new testament, Matthew: "For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."  I did not get a response from the person in question.   My own interpretation of this is that thought, when applied with faith (or conviction), creates real tangible effects in both the physical and spiritual planes.  When seen in this way, we can understand our spiritual experiences, be they retrievals or conversations with grandma as having been real if they were experienced in this way.  

I agree with Don, that we need to be applying intent to obtain rational verification for these spiritual encounters as well.  However, you can see from my above train of thought why the notion of spiritual contact and retrievals may have a firm grounding in reality without such historical rational verification.

Matthew

Hi Matthew When i receive from spirit,sometimes i have to sort out whether its my thoughts coming into the words i get from spirit and when i have talked of this to George our medium at the spiritualist church,he told me that most mediums do go through this as he has been a medium for a lot of years and sometimes he questions himself but he tells me ,when i get these doubts that i must put my faith in spirit and say exactly what i receive,even with these doubts,which i do now.He also told me if i kept doubting myself i may as well stop being a medium.

I know when i did the retreival on one of my friends who died in tragic circumstances,i was walking up my stairs and as i got to the top,i picked up this really strong scent of beer,,it felt like i was standing in a brewery as my friend would always be out drinking at weekends,and as i looked i saw him,he was in tears and he was afraid of going to the light ,so i just asked God to send his helpers and guides to help him go through the light ,and i saw two guides walking him through and my friend came to me two days later and said he was now at peace,but that is the sign he gave me that he was there, the scent of beer.

Love and God bless          Love Juditha

The sense/dream development stage living in and with the spiritual world called the distant Old Moon Stage. Later the manifestation of the individual logic and intellectual developed in the Old Sun Stage and important to discern the sense-pictures, the remanence of the old moon stage, when it arises. This discernment is done through the ego.

It was/is important in the development of the human to break out of the collective old moon stage into the individual sun stage in order for the ego to develop intectually and individually. To be one part of the whole and not collective-consciousness part of the collective consciousness.

Without the individual intellect of the ego the state of collective-consciousness arises as it was in the distant old Moon stage. This stage, important in human development, perceived itself to be part of nature and nature to be part of itself. However, when the time was right to develop further ie the ego; certain entities did not want to let go of this dream like stage.

During the old Sun stage the newest member to our spiritual body – the ego - was developed. Within this the ego individually and intectually perceives outside of itself and with this the perception the Christ Impulse as the oneness of collective consciousness which in turn is perceived inwardly.

This is why it is important for the developing / developed ego to be aware of dream-like influences.

Hi Matthew and all,

I, too, thank you for starting this thread.  I would like to delve a little deeper into this subject based on my own experiences and what I have learned.  I certainly don’t have all of the answers, but I’d like to present my perspective from a larger view that includes what we think of as our spirituality.  This isn’t by any means conclusive; it is what I am trying my best to understand in a cohesive manner that addresses “the unity of all things” from my perspective.

Matthew posted:
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Most of the time we don’t consciously realize just how deeply our subconscious beliefs go and the direct effect they have on our desired creations.  It is the spiritual that creates the physical.

We exist on what we term spiritual and astral levels that penetrate downward into the physical or what we think of as our physical body.  In this we include the idea that we are “body, mind and spirit”, but we do not yet understand all of the implications of this.  In particular, we lack knowledge of our spiritual aspects and we tend to view these from a separatists point of view.

Consider the possibility that we exist in many bodies in addition to the physical one that we are most familiar with.  Or it may be easier to understand if we think of our self as a single body existing within many interpenetrating levels that include what’s been called “planes of reality” such as the Spiritual Plane, the Astral Plane, and the Physical Plane.  Each of these planes interpenetrates the ones below it down and into the physical body.

Consciousness begins at the deepest level of our being regardless of what we label this.  For me within my belief this deepest level is God, the father who is the very ground of our being or at the very core of our energetic essence, commonly called our higher self.  This is the part of us that is never separated from God.  I suppose one could describe God, the father as Consciousness without belief that is always active in Creator / Creative Movement.  Don might want to help me out here with my description as I think he knows what I’m trying to get at.

As the movement of our core or the Divinity within goes forth from the spiritual plane downwards in vibration, it encounters and penetrates through the next lower spiritual plane of vibration, which is our origination of what we call intention.  Keep in mind that in my description we are still on a very deep or high vibration of our existence.  This level of intention is where belief was/is created, not only within us, but also within the greater consciousness of the collective.  This plane of intention could be thought of as God, the son or the Christ Consciousness, or what Kyo terms Cosmo Ethics that is now carried within the spiritual plane consciousness of intention.  To me, God, the Holy Spirit carries collective consciousness within the whole of consciousness and is the means by which feedback travels.

I see this as a feedback process where consciousness moves downward through all vibrations including the physical, and collects information, which it then returns; back not only to itself, but to the whole of creation of this spiritual plane of intention as well.  This is also what gives our personal consciousness the power of freewill choice, so our choices have their origin at this higher plane of our being or what we think of as our subconscious mind.  

Matthew posted:  
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When we enter into deep meditation or are very relaxed it is easier for us to as Matthew states make the impression of thought upon the subconscious.  This is because we can travel the line of consciousness back to its source while being physically conscious of our action.  In actuality, this movement between higher and lower consciousnesses is continual.  We can and do effect change by choosing to do so either consciously or unconsciously.

Our cross purposes do have an effect on our ability to create what we want.  And they do have an effect on our subconscious because we have muddied the waters with our conflicting thought patterns.  This is why our creations don’t always turn out the way we want them to be.  We try to make choices for what we consider to be better than what we had, but much of the time the choices we make stem from our fears, which muddy the water even to the point where it has become so completely murky that we cannot see clearly.  The creation of fear is the root cause of this.  Fear is also from my perspective how we created a split in consciousness, which thrust us into a world of duality.

On a larger scale this duality stems from our strong collective belief that we are separate from God, from each other, from our self and from nature.  It seems we have created a very real solidified world of separation for us to experience and guess what?  We did it intentionally regardless of whether or not we were or are conscious of doing it.  We also continue to feed this strong separatists belief back to our subconscious mind at the spiritual plane of intention and this is what holds it in place along with all that exists in our physical world including our human frailties and suffering.

There’s an old saying… you are what you believe you are.  I think there is more truth in that saying than any of us realizes because this spiritual level of intention is a center of spiritual power that exists within the physical body and everything we do rests on the foundation of our intention in the moment we do it.

We all are very good at creating mixed intentions.  We do this habitually in numerous ways.  One of the primary ways is that we give ourselves reasons of why not, which are really rationalized excuses, alibis or stories that we tell ourselves to justify why we couldn’t create what we desired or get the results that we wanted.  Our reasons of why not will never give us the results we wanted and many times they serve to convince us that the reasons why not are almost as good as the results that we wanted in the first place.  Since we are spiritual beings these reasons of why not are fed back into the higher levels of our being and add to our foundational belief system, which in turn has a tremendous impact on not only our physical life experiences, but also on all areas of our entire being.

Many times what we want or desire serves the purpose of assuaging fear so when we have a desire to create or accomplish something we long for we don’t get the results we want because we have mixed intentions or cross purposes with ourselves.  This interferes with our natural ability to create what we want.  Anywhere in our lives where we have trouble creating what we want, including health and healing, is exactly where we are holding mixed intentions.  So we must clarify what our intentions are in order to realign the intentions that are preventing us from accomplishing what we want to accomplish.

We all have great spiritual power located within the higher levels of our being and the spiritual plane of intention is the foundation upon which the lower planes are built.  Whether we realize it or not, we are continually transforming the framework of this level of consciousness, which in turn has a direct affect on all other dimensions beneath it.

Love, Kathy

I recall Joseph Campbell asking somethng like, "Am I the candle from which light shines forth, or am I the light of the candle from which all light is emitted?"

If we are "monists" (thanks Berserk) - then it's all One, and the problems lie only in understanding how"IT" operates.

If we are separate from God, then we are not monists, and we're going to have fun trying to figure out we get two different and separated natures out of a single Creation.

And if we're sort of half and half? I'd say that's just confusion. The wrong question.

Weekly I drive to work 210 miles and then home 210 miles. I believe in what Europeans call "rechtfahren", ie. "Drive right, pass left."  So when I get bogged down behind a cluster of slow vehicles waiting for someone who creeps along forever in the passing lane next to another snail, blocking the road, oblivious of the many cars wanting to pass, I sometimes project my "drive right, pass left" philosophy along mentally. Quite often the slowpoke moves to the right lane, allowing us all to pass. (Yes, I also say "Thanks".) Assuming that I am somehow communicating, we must be in some kind of contact. That's a vote for oneness. It's the same when I go to phone my wife and discover her already phoning me.

If we are dualistic, then we are making God perform. (There's a problem for engineers to ponder!) If we are monistic, then we are God, and we're making our selves perform.

At rare times we all have moments in which we seem to be facing the Vast Unknown. In these transcendental instants, it seems that anything that makes sense is possible. All we need to do is to locate the logic, and hold on. The mustard seed has no doubt, and thus it cracks and crumbles its way through rock and pavement to grow - literally moving its mountain. "Faith healing" (I often use hypnotic suggestion) operates the same way.  In fact, it's a "mind over matter event" when you lift your coffee cup. (And when hypnotized to not be able to do it, you can't!)

I like a logical monism. If we assume a Creative event, then every potentiality for its future expansion must be implicit in that event at the same initial instant. You and I select which of those options to pursue, much as we might select which road to take as we drive through town. The logic is already there, but we don't necessarily sense it unless we use the path that happens to include that sensation.  The mustard seed path with its portable mountains is thus nothing but one of the established and well defined worldlines that we might follow. How to locate that worldine is a different matter, but hypnotic phenomena provide a suggestion, as does focussed intention.

dave

There are several inter-related ideas about intent and the process of creation in the physical world that I believe bear repeating.  The first concept is that of intent coupled with certainty or acknowledgement that the intended action has been occurred.  Many involved in healings and prayer will give thanks for the healing, even before it has happened.  The healer is to "see the ill person as already healed," and acknowledge that it is done, giving thanks to God, and even visualize the emotions of joy and happiness that the healing has brought.  This is what seeing it as already done means.  This can be applied to intent either for healing or for any desired change in the material world.  There is New Testament evidence for this, as Don and others can point out.  Ask and ye shall receive:

"

The other important aspect of the use of intent in creating in the spiritual or physical planes is that it must be coupled to positive action.  One does not just sit and mediatate on wealth without making meaningful changes into one's life to work and earn money.  Action must be coupled with intent - this may seem obvious, but it isn't always to all people.  Some forms of religion have a "faith alone" document.  That if one has faith in God, that faith alone guarentess success or salvation. 

Another aspect about intent is what ethical consequences follow.  Those who practice intent with the idea of doing ill to others may achieve their ends, only to entangle themselves in negative karma.  In general, people aware of this try to couple their intent with the highest good for all those involved, and some will actually pray for the best outcome while they are applying intent to any given situation.


Matthew

Dr. Karl Phibram, a renowned professor of neuropsychology at Stanford University is well known for developing the holographic or holonomic model of the brain, which theorizes that the mathematics of the hologram works well as a model for brain processes and that the human brain essentially functions as a hologram collecting and reading information from a holographic universe.  

Simply, the way this works is that our brain, using our five senses picks up the energy field of whatever we focus our attention on and translates that energy field into an object.  The object that is perceived is really the secondary reality (or illusion as some call it) because the object is really a signature of the deeper reality of the energy field.  Or in other words, when we see an object such as a tree what is really happening is that we are seeing something that is a secondary reality.  The primary reality is the energetic signature that our brain interpreted the shape and color to be a tree. Our true reality is the energy that carries the information and all of our senses act together to create the illusion of our world around us, including our physical body.

Phibram’s research relates to the level of our deeper intention, which is the result of our consciousness upon which our energy flow is based.  The implications of this for our health are that any physical problem is a physical manifestation of the true disease that is found within consciousness, which is our primary reality.

When we consider our science and health care systems are most often based on the physical world, we realize they are based on secondary causes, not primary ones.  Our intentions regardless of whether they are conscious or unconscious are expressed in our thoughts; feelings and actions really are the primary factors that determine our state of health.  Any physical disease such as pancreatic cancer Don mentioned above is only a physical manifestation of the true disease that is to be found within consciousness and any science for treating disease that is based on the physical world is based on secondary causes, rather than the primary cause.

Using the hologram as a model, which clearly demonstrates that each piece contains the whole we can understand that each piece of us, no matter how small still contains the whole pattern of us that is expressed in the physical world.  Each cell in our body contains our whole genetic makeup.  Cloning is an example of this.  Our energy field (aura) that surrounds and interpenetrates the physical body is what creates the physical including each cell.  Disease such as pancreatic cancer is created in the energy field long before it is manifested in the physical body.  The energy field of each cell contains the whole pattern of health and even if we only had one healthy cell left, we can tap into the pattern of that cell to regain our health and cure disease.

Time is also holographic and each aspect of every moment exists both at all times and in all times.  We don’t usually think of time as being whole, complete and alive as well as coexisting in a knowledgeable interconnectivity with all other moments, but it is.  Each moment in time is self-aware and has access to all other moments in time.  What this means for us is that we each have access to all other moments.  We truly are everywhere all the time, always!  This means that we are always connected to our health before we become sick and we can access that experience of health and bring it into the now time for healing and we can do this instantaneously!

Our bodies are composed of energy.  They are a gelatinous substance of light.  Instead of thinking of ourselves as solid matter, if we were to think of ourselves as a gelatinous substance of light we could effect change with intention or prayer as Don mentions much more easily.

There is power in groups because any group of people together creates a greater whole.  Using the holographic model where even though each smaller piece of the photographic plate still contains the whole, the whole that it contains is fuzzier or less clear than the previous larger piece.  In reverse order, if the pieces are put back together, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  Therefore a clearer picture of our greater, whole self emerges.  Any group of people together creates a greater whole that has more power than each person separately, however any individual within a group can tap into and access the power and energy of that group.  This goes even further to where each group within a larger group can tap into the power and energy of the larger group and on and on…

Another significant premise that I think comes out of Karl Pribram’s work states that the brain processes data consistent with what it is use to.  Or in other words, our experiences are based according to our expectations, which are based on our beliefs.  Since reality is created by consciousness, it is our consciousness that creates its own experience of reality because our consciousness is a part of reality, but this gets tricky because of the controversy surrounding it.
Basically the controversy amounts to misuse of this premise by stating blame, which in my opinion comes from the personality level of thoughts and feelings, which are secondary causes.  What we commonly call ego although I think the ego gets a bad wrap most of the time.  The ego is simply our interpreter of secondary causes.  Our deeper level of intention is the primary cause.

If we accept the idea that we create our own experience of reality, this puts us in a powerful position to understand how we created something such as pancreatic cancer or heart disease for example.  We then can change the ways in which we created something and re-create another more desirable outcome for physical manifestation.  We have the pattern of the whole within us and because of this the body has a natural healing system already in place where rapid change or healing can and does take place.

Love, Kathy

Hi Justin,

Thanks for the review.  It’s good to have your voice here again, too.

Basically my post is my understanding of Pilbram’s work that makes sense to me based on my own experiences.  A lot of my understanding is based on David Bohm’s work as well as Pilbram’s.  In reference to the human condition of duality and separation Bohm stated, “Nature has allowed humanity the luxury to make mistakes, because humankind must have the possibility of being creative.  It is our fledgling ranking in this cosmic process that places us in these circumstances of choice and possible chaos.  Disorder, and its consequent suffering will prevail as long as all the different elements chaotically grow independently of each other, don’t work together.”

To me Bohm is saying we all together as a group have created this world to be as it is and we will continue to create the same as we have previously created until we as a group use our deeper intention to create the changes for betterment.  We are doing this and we have come along way.  The world and our healthcare systems are changing, but it will take the power of larger group consciousness to effect a complete change.  Of course that consciousness begins with our self.

This may tie in with what you’re getting at, too.  It’s been a lot of years since I’ve read any of the Casey material so I’m no longer exactly sure of how he defines karma.  My definition of karma is simply that it is a process of transformation or cause and effect, which is motivational desire (cause) and fulfillment (effect)   

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This example doesn’t fit with Pilbram’s model of how our brains work or the holographic view of the universe.  From a holistic perspective, the little girl would not have gotten sick when coming in contact with the germs had her system been balanced in the first place.  This is the tricky part that I mentioned in my other post.  We all play the blame game of our belief systems.  This statement blames the nurse for passing germs to the little girl.  The little girl’s consciousness is the primary cause of her illness and the weakness in her energy field existed prior to her contact with the germs.  Responsibility always rests within our self.  In our world of dualism this is hard to explain.

Let’s say I caught a cold and I could say to the person I caught it from… “I caught your cold.”  This implies blame.  But the primary reason why I caught the cold in the first place is because my balancing system was off.  So a more accurate statement for me to say would be, “This cold that I caught is a signal to me that I need to balance myself because I’ve weakened my immune system that allowed this virus to penetrate.” This statement implies my own responsibility in this.

I’m not by any means degrading or discounting our healthcare system, I’m simply saying that we need to view our illnesses and disease by first of all taking the responsibility of creating it in the first place by knowing that it is a secondary physical manifestation that resulted from a primary cause.

The same is true for accidents or anything else such as obesity.  Instead of saying something like “I’ve got a bad back” one might try to view this from the primary cause and say something like, “The pain in my back indicates that I’m backing out on myself and it is time for me to be clear about my intentions or the person that overeats is padding themselves from a world that they fear and feel the need to protect themselves from. 

All suffering stems from the ways in which we have created our life to be and we hold it in place by continuing to believe that we are unconnected victims instead of realizing that we had something to do with it in the first place.  The choice is ours.  We can continue to see ourselves as victims or we can try something new that holds great possibility for new opportunities to heal ourselves.  Our true primary reality is the reality of energy and consciousness and anything that focuses on the secondary or material reality of the physical world is based on illusion and is illusory.  It seems to me that this is what our sciences are now discovering.

Love, Kathy