We are not going to remember if we go to the spirit world,if there is reincarnation.In my opinion,we will leive this earth,and if we reincarnate,we will not remember anything about the spirit world,because we will forget it when we wake up as a baby,and we will think that we are here for the first,just like all the past lives we have had.George

Reality is what you make of it.  Our minds and spirits are creative.  We are bound by past experiences (torture, misery) as long as we see ourselves as bound.  We are free when we realize that no matter what happened to us, if it were horrible, that does not define us or our future.

Hells are made by the mind.  They are unmade by stepping out of the box, losing false or hindering belief systems.

I do not believe that memories or past existences are ever really lost.  However, our minds may focus on one immediate reality, and for a time we may dwell there, oblivious to any other life or incarnation.


Matthew

Yours is a lonely universe, Chum my man.  What about the idea of retrievals, helpers, guides - loved ones all trying to get the attention of this raped boy you describe in his own hell?   It would be up to the boy whether his belief systems allowed him to recognize the help offered, and whether he could be saved.  The idea that his memories would have to obsess over the rape once dead, and not his fifth birthday party, or people he helped, etc.  is yours/his.

You say why not wipe his memory and just get a "do over?"  I'm not sure.  If that is what he wants, it may happen.  But if he integrates past lives and family love with his recent earth existence, he may see that his spirit - his essence is not defined by the negative experience. 



M

Hi George When i went to circle at the spiritualist church,there was a young man in the circle,who told us that he knew of his past life,and that he died in the second world war fighting as a soldier,so we do sometimes have a memory of a past life,

Also i think if anyone has done bad things,when they were on the earth plain and they go to heaven,i beleive that they are made to feel the hurt,they caused others on earth and also given the love and support from guides and helpers to cleanse there souls and live in peace and harmony in the heavenly spirit realms.

Also i think that some people are so evil inside,that when they go to spirit,they refuse help and refuse the love offered to them as well because they are so evil,they dont want to be saved,so they end up on the lower realms,but even then there are the higher spirits that go down to these lower realms,open there arms and ask who wants to be saved,and then its down to the evil ones whether they say yes or no.The choice is there if they want it.

Love and God bless you George    Juditha

In my opinion, we do block past life memories when we reincarnate.  They are not "forgotten"..just repressed.

I believe that we choose the basics of what happens to us here before we come here. We choose general life circumstances, such as where and to whom to be born and under what conditions.

Including the perceived "bad" things that happen to us.

Once we conclude this physical life, we cross over and depending on our beliefs in this life, that determines where we are in the afterlife.  If we believe in a holy "god" who is going to judge us based on what we did here, then depending on how we perceive we did, we will either be in "heaven" singing hymns and playing harps, or in hell, being tortured for "eternity".

There are multiple belief system territories.  And then there is the reality that is the afterlife.

The question is: How to tell the difference?

I do think we will remember each life when we return to our real home in the astral..and most of what we perceive as "bad, evil, horrible" will simply be one more experience to ponder and another lesson learned..

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I don't believe that people are so evil on the inside. I believe that people who carry fear and ignorance with them are lacking in love and openness. They reject other souls because they do not want to be open and share all their thoughts with spirits in the higher realms. They want cling on to their pain, their shame and their anger. I do not think this is evil, maybe they retain fear and hate that is why they cannot embrace the love of the higher realms, but they must get sick of it and choose to progress in time. But to me an evil entity is something that cannot be turned good. If there are evil entities I do not think that they are humans.

I don't believe that we lose free will and the ability to make changes. I don't see why there should be a difference in free will simply because a soul has left its physical shell. In fact I think there would be alot more choice with so much to explore in the afterlife, but if crossed over with your mind in a bad condition and you believed in eternal damnation, you may put yoursel f in a hellish state for a very long time.

'Man/Woman makes his/her own heaven and hell' is the way I see it via the outlook on things. The spirit would just have to open their mind and cry out for help. I've read alot about how there are more highly evolved spirits who take it as a job to help those 'lost' souls in the lower spheres.

As far as re-incarnation is concerned. There are a few articles of interest in the link below.
*****************
Hello again, NSD.
From what I've read, we actually have "two souls" - and they are none other than our conscious mind (will, reason; "I" point) and our subconscious mind (memories, personality, emotions; "Me" point, if you like. )
The question is: which one uf us is the REAL "I/Me" (assuming that Peter Novak is correct, and these components fracture apart upon the death of the body.)
My fear is, is that the "real Chumley" is the SUBCONSCIOUS mind. Why, you ask?
Notice that after-death communications, ect. all seem to demonstrate a decay in the ability to communicate with LANGUAGE, and instead use gestures, "feelings", ect.
Ever notice how STUPID you are in your dreams, NSD? I mean, you lose your ability to think critically! (A gigantic purple polka-dot slug could come up and ask you the time of day, and then one second later you're driving your car or whatever - and at NO point do you skeptically inquire into what is happening - you just take the experince at face value!)
I greatly fear that this "stripped subconscious mind" experience is what is waiting for me on the "Other Side", NSD. I'd prefer oblivion to that. Or at least let the EASTERN religious vision be true, and I can reincarnate over and over instead of being stuck in a freaked-out dreamworld for the rest of eternity. (That's a long, LONG time for me to be constantly trying to stick my teeth back in because they keep falling out, or vaguely dreading that I've committed some awful crime and I'm about to be arrested and sent to a prison full of 8-foot-tall 350-pound butt-pirates, or any number of other dream sequences that have been recurring for me my entire life..!)
As for cryonics - maybe that will provide a means of escape for me from such an "afterworld fate"... so I think I'd better start a "freezer fund" ASAP. Maybe it'll give me some peace of mind at least..!

B-man

regarding NeverSayDie about evil...there are some studies of criminals in our midst who have no conscious. I suppose that means they have no awareness of what compassion means? or, they have no sense of having done something wrong.
that means theres an absence of something fundamental in their psyche. as most of us are using our conscious to keep us from doing harm (specifically thinking of violence upon another's body) to others. I do not think there are any people with complete evil makeup. but I do think we can teach each other compassion and that its an ongoing process of becoming.
love, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 21^st, 2006 at 12:41pm:

Interesting thought occurred to me as I read this, Alysia..
I read somewhere that we leave part of our energy There when we incarnate Here.  I wonder if its possible that some of these so-called evil people just left too much energy There and are living on raw brain input?  That is, not enough spirit in the being?

The conscious resides within the spirit/soul..perhaps not enough was brought along...

Hmm..that brings to mind something that happened a couple years.

I was exploring, not sure just where.  I did go oob..something startled me back and for a couple hours after, I felt like I wasn't quite "all here."  I had to go back and find the rest of me that seemed to have been left there.

So..in my experience, its entirely possible to split yourself even here.

I, too, could not imagine wanting to deliberately split my essence that way.  Just the time it accidentally happened was enough for me.  Of course, if you do this as a baby, you may not be aware that part of you is missing. 

I'm often fascinated by idioms and sayings.  One of my favorites is "I feel like I"m not all here."  or in reference to others who seem not quite right, we will say "they are not all there"..which makes me wonder..if they are not all there..or here, where are they?  And where did this saying come from anyway?

You make me think too, Alysia..love you too!

Chumley's purple slug with polka dots reminds me of my own dreams, and I definitely don't feel very intelligent nor competent when I'm stuck in one. The people with whom I do regressions always seem to keep a part of the rational mind aware and engaged. But when I contact a spook that's hitching a ride on someone's psyche, they seem to have a very limited one track mind. It's not that they are unable to think, but they are stuck with that specific idiom, and if anything else occurs, the initial impulse is to continue the same idiom. This is essentially what Bruce refers to as a BST - a  belief system that limits external exploration, and that is also self-perpetuating in  some manner. In retrievals, the problem is to puncture the BST without shocking the soul into terrified retreat, and then to suggest that some kind of alternatives exist.

I still like the story of the tank commander who was led, not into the light and away from a false idea, but rather led back to rejoin comrades in arms who just happened to be in the light. Until that idea had been put to him, he simply was stuck forever running the tank across an endless wasteland. When a new outlook was shown him, and it was "safe" to accept new input, the BST opened a bit to include others, and then still farther to continue into the spiritual experiences appropriate to the dead. The limits to thinking were still there, but they now had expanded to allow further experiences. 

This is essentially the same process as most of the psychoanalytic therapies. The patient is typically so wrapped up in a self imposed blindness that rational ideas either must be fitted into that same frame of thought, or rejected as not making sense. This is one of the reasons that many people view insanity as "doing the same thing again and again, but expecting a different result each time. "

To reach people who are candidates for analytical psychotherapy (as opposed to simple behavioral reprogramming of stimulus response linkages) it is necessary to find an idiom that links the inner awareness and its BST to the outer world and its plethora of options that generally have been undiscovered because they violated the assumptions underlying the BST. As Caryn pointed out, Hermes Trismestigis said "As above so below." This is totally true in terms of "retrieval" of the mind of a psychoanalytic patient. It seems to also be true in doing retrievals, and in entity depossession.

While I think that Chumley has been a bit heavy handed in the way he expressed it, his idea that we just "go with the flow" seems to me to be borne out by experiences on many levels. And, unfortunately, after one's material vehicle has been boarded by "8 foot 350 lb butt pirates", there is a tendency to fixate on rage and hatred. This often is carried into death, and it seems to shape the way that the victim later feels and views things. Sometimes we get a chance to work with such people before their bodies fall off, and other times, we see them after they have discarded the material frame. Therapy in both cases is identical.

dave

Thanks. Matthew - that was some interesting material that I didn't know. 

I had an acquaintance who knew Hitler when she was a girl and said that he was quite nice.  Very easy to get along with etc, a charming person. My only knowledge pertinent to him is his reportedly being regularly dosed with methamphetamine by his physician (who had to acquire it illegaly) - perhaps that explains both the anal rigidity and also the manic drive - regardless of consequences the manic psychotic is God (true, but not exactly) and thus the world suffers. What a pity that his art professor turned him down.

dave

Matthew..I had forgotten about the methamphetimine use..I've seen first hand the damage that drug does to the mind..and that explains further alot of what Hitler did.

(my how this thread has rambled from the OP, huh?)

As to Hitler being atheist, that's a new one for me.

The Jews respect Jesus as much as the Muslems do.  They believe he was perhaps a teacher, but certainly not sent from God.

Juditha, Hitler was a pawn..

As to the "choose Jesus or Barabas", that sort of thing did not happen.  There is no historical reference to the letting go of one criminal for a Jewish holiday.

And, yes, Paul totally corrupted Jesus' teaching.  Which is why I will have nothing to with the bible and Paul's teachings.  He was an upstart who took over.  Peter was to be the apostle to the gentiles.  Paul was a liar and an interloper, pretending at times to be humble.

Since Jesus himself never wrote anything, all we have is retold stories, written at the earliest 40 years after his death.  There are no other records, outside of the bible that this man even existed, let alone that he did all the things recorded.  Me thinks the tale became overinflated as the telling went on..and distorted, as in a game of telephone.

Ok, that's off topic, but I had to get it out.

As to wishing someone be in eternal torture..wow..just..

Just a side note: My mother was a fullblooded German.  She grew up in Nazi Germany, and while she did not support Hitler..she had many firsthand accounts of what happened there.

Juditha, where did you get the information that Judas thought he was helping Jesus?  He was the groups treasurer and saw the money.  He was also greatly disappointed that Jesus did not overthrow the Roman rule of Israel.

Hi Shirley   My tears are for the Jewish children and there familys that died in the gas chambers.

Hitler was the second antichrist and you cant say that the crowd did not shout for Jesus or Barrabas,weres your proof of this,and how do you know that Paul was a liar.

I do hope Hitler is were he belongs on the lower realms with the antichrist Satan and suffering like he made those children suffer.i feel no pity for him,my pity is for the jewish people.

Also its my personal opinion that Judas thought he was helping Jesus,as the Sanhendrin tricked him.

Love and God bless you Juditha

Quote:

Same as above.

Quote:

Yes, it is Mairlyn.  I feel as though my opinion is worth nothing, my thoughts are crap and perhaps its time to make an exit.

Right now, my pulse is pounding in my head and I just feel terrible.  I guess I'm just wrong, and should go on back out of here.

I really have things I would like to say, but what's the point?  This use to be a place to explore the afterlife and help people out of BST's and those who were stuck in them.  I can't deal with this anymore.  Biblical heaven is another BST.  I have helped to retrieve folks stuck there..

But, having been told that my thoughts/beliefs/experiences are wrong, over and over..is quite discouraging.

You're right, George.  I'm sorry for my part in it, though my words stand.  Not to you but to those who want to keep telling me they have the facts..

As to the OP..remembering who we are in the spirit world when we incarnate, could be quite cumbersome.  Although some of us do remember bits and pieces, and we are always seeking to learn more, to answer the "whys" of this life, I think carrying baggage from one life to the next would hinder growth in each successive life.

However, when we return to the spirit world, we will remember each life..and be able to do a comparison.

Consider though, if in a previous life we were not that good.  Maybe we did things based on ego, rather than love.  Perhaps we were a Hitler or Hussein type.  To carry that into the dualistic physical could drive a person insane..while their basic "personage", their soul/spirit/essence, would for the most part remain intact.

Or, on the hand, if we were quite happy in a previous life, with things generally easy and placid, yet in this life things were hard, sad and tumultuous..the temptation to cut short this one would be great.

So, in my personal opinion, we may get glimpses of what was..both in previous lifes and in our home in the astral..we won't know the whole picture on this side.  The bits we do get to know, are just enough to keep going.

Please don't leave Shirley. Your thoughts are very important!!!

I recently had a reading done and found out that a friend and I were mercenaries many, many years ago in what is now East Germany. We made quite a bit of money and even bought a castle that is still standing today. The point is that we killed for money. He has burned his karma off from that life in previous lives. Part of my being with an abusive spouse was helping to burn off the rest of my karma from that life.

So what I'm saying is that we've all done everything both good and bad.

I hope you didn't take offense at my saying not to start a war here Shirley. I didn't mean for you to shut up or anything like that. I know we all have our own beliefs. Perhaps this should be moved to the Off Topic section as anyone can say anything there. I was just trying to make a point of not arguing among ourselves. And for the record, my thoughts go along with yours Shirley. No one should ever have to suffer eternally. We all chose our lives before coming into the physical and Hitler chose his, the same as the rest of us. He is a soul too the same as us no matter how his life turned out. Hitler is a spark of God as we all are.

Much Love, Mairlyn

Dave, excellent thoughts.  Yes, it is difficult to see beyond our own belief systems..and when we find them to be somewhat fluid..that makes it a bit more of a struggle, I would think.

To be totally sure..I was there once.  It was great, and ignorance really is bliss..

Mairlyn..you never offend me, dear one.  You help me to get grounded again..and be rational, rather than emotional.  (though there is a time for emotional, just not irrational emotional..)

Quote:


This brought tears to my eyes..it resonated so well with what I believe..

Just as we each have chosen our lives, some are hard to understand.  We consider the child who dies young..why would they have chosen to do so?  Perhaps..to provide the opportunity to the one who chose to end their life..a lesson needing to be learned?

I find great comfort in knowing that I chose the initial path that my life has taken..rather than to give that power to some outside source that is directing each step..

Hi I do feel love and forgiveness,but i would like to ask a question and then i will drop the subject.

In all honesty for everyone on here,"Would you love and forgive someone who tortured and killed your child."
I know i wouldnt,no way
Love and God bless you all Juditha

I don't want anyone to leave the board in anger or by being chased away.  Certain comments are bound to stir up passions on both sides however.  If you read my last post, you can see that the quote that I started off with about Jewish people, would offend the sensibilities of many.  My post in reply was to set the record straight regarding something to which I had firsthand knowledge.  Prejudice and mistrust arise in general through passion and often misinformation.  Rather than invoke the peer moderator system, and have the offending comment removed, I chose to try to reply with information.  Other passions were inflamed, however I think we can all move on. 

To get back to George's initial post - George, I believe from all the evidence that when we pass on, there is a review process of some kind for our lives; a chance to make sense of things, and learn our lessons, and at last let go of the material world so that we can embrace love.  If we can't get past it, we may choose to come back - if we do, this is, I believe a decision made by free will, with guidance.  The idea that we could die, hurtle out into some cosmic plasma pool and then have our memories wiped without being involved, is not in general, supported by NDEs, mediums and the like.

Matthew

In all honesty, it would be hard to love and forgive someone who had killed my child. However, there is a great lesson that has just been played out in the physical world and that is the reaction of the Amish to the killer and his family of the girls he shot. They have forgiven him and love him. I think I can too. In all honesty, I feel I could too. Someday you will understand.

Love, Mairlyn

I like Karmikiss's obsrervation that God is big enough to provide all kinds of religions. I took a few hours off for my Grandson's 18th b'day party (what better ecxcuse to go to a favorite restaurant and have good food!) and on the way it occurred to me that God is in the unique situation of being all things to all people.

The background to this is very simple - God is infinite creativity. Thus at the same instant, by a little bit of shuffling matters around so that there is not conflict in the experiences of people like you and me, we can have a God that is Shiva the Hindu Creator-Destroyer, Domballa Wedo the black snake of heaven, Javeh who created the lineage of Abraham and Judaism and Islam, the wondeful red and green ropes of truth of the Sam, the 60 year cycle of the Dogon, the Terrible Ruler of Hell for those who need it, and the infinitely compassionate Father in Heaven of more common Western belief. God can, and does, manifest the Christ as Jesus-the-Man as well as Krishna the Avatar, and Buddha the compassionate, or Hoo Toy the jolly whose belly we rub in a Taoist temple.

To look at this from INSIDE any one of these belief systems tends to scramble the brain a teeny bit, but to look at the "Big Picture" (as well as we are able) allows us to accept the simile of the mountain with a vast number of roads leading to it across a barrn plain. Then as we mount, the paths merge and all their differences fall away until at the top we discover that by the miraculous structuring of our world, we have never found a contradiction to our own specific beliefs, and yet there is only a single path that leads into the light.

Yogis experience this is roughly four stages, which is actully all that I can talk about from experience. However, the discipline involved in soul retrievals is a form of Jnana yoga, so evryone in this forum has a rough idea of what this is all about. The first level is discovering tht there actually IS something beyond the everyday world. This is the most important step.

Next comes the work of getting into the spiritual activity - usually by meditation, but some of us fools used drugs (and had ample time to regret that choice! - I've been to enough self-created hells for the week, thank you). This leads into the caring work by which we work for the good of others, and slowly learn that we have two Bosses - The immediate Boss is the person for whom we are doing therapy, retrieval, regression or whatever - the Big Boss is God.

The next level is the level of realization that there are truly no contradictions, that everything expresses thesame pattern of Truth, and that there is ultimately only one Ultimate Truth, even though expressed in three billion ways (sarvastarka samadhi).

The last major step is to resolve everything for a few moments into a state where everything is understood as One, and that One is God, and as we wonder at this we are absorbed into an instant of utterly transcendent bliss (nirvastarka samadhi).  And that brings us back to the world again to do whatever we have elected for the benefit of others with the truly awesome responsibility to represent God in all we do.

To touch God in samadhi is like touching a drop of honey. Not only is it impossible to get rid of it, but in a moment the sweetness seems to spread itself everywhere, and we become crystallizations of its nature. We love because we can do no other. If anyone ever asks you what to do after enightenment, the basic answer seems to be "Love".

There are a few young and immature souls out there who SEEM really hard to love. But what we are actually referring to when we object is not the souls themselves - we object to what they have done, and often to what they are doing. The torturer in a secret prison camp is the same God-stuff as the victim. Thus, to love someone who rapes and pillages is never really the point. We love the innermost nature of that person because we see God who is worthy of all our love. As for the raping and pillaging, that's something we can do without. And as they experience that unpleasant fact, I feel regret for them, that they must learn what they have done, and far far worse than that, they are forced to learn to Whom they did it.

If God can tolerate it, Juditha, it seems appropriate for us to make an effort as well. But I definitely know where you're coming from! Evidently Marilyn already passed through that knothole. I recall being a warrior, raging and hating, and being literally blown to bits. Kinda changes one's attitude.

As another example, someone who has fewer typos differs not at all from someone who makes a lot, so I feel that I'm in good company. Stick around Shirley - anyone who can make us think is definitely worthwhile! And doubly so with this kind of topic. If we didn't love you, we wouldn't care what you say. Obviously, that isn't the case.

PUL
dave

Juditha , I think the distinction has to be made that we can forgive through the knowledge and  the love we have learned, but through that forgiveness dose not mean we  are saying the actions where right, its just saying, there's a higher law and we are not privy to all. And because we don't have all the information at hand we are not to judge. Its a much simpler road when you reach this level of understanding.

King richard the lionheart was a good king he cared about his people ,the jewish people helped to set him free because they knew he was a good man god bless juditha love deanna your sister

deanna wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2006 at 3:15pm:



Hi Deanna,

to take things completely off topic, I wanted to add that it is a shame that King Richard's older brother, Henry the Young King, who WOULD have been Henry III had he not died before his time, was not able to have a long reign....he had the makings of being a very, very good king and was treated rather unfairly by Henry II his father...   history is filled with tragic figures, for sure....  LOL

As for King Richard, though, he spent more time in France than England by far, and yet everyone identifies him as English today! lol

and don't forget that the English people were taxed all to hell as well to come up with the ransom to pry Richard away from Henry VI the germanic Holy Roman Emperor

Matthew, thank you for clarifying the misunderstanding of the Jewish nation.  The Zohar is the most sacred book and so are the people.  It reminds me of this writing;

The interpretation of the sacred scriptures is based upon the underlying meaning in the allegorical narratives. Thus we see that what had been striven for in the narrower circle of the scriptures had become the concern of a community. But naturally its strict character has been weakened by being shared. The communities of the Essenes and Therapeutae form a natural transition from the Scriptures to Christianity. Christianity, however, wished to extend to humanity as a whole what these communities had made the concern of a sect. This of course prepared the way for a still further weakening of its strict character. 

Ah, well .. its bad enough being weakened without being incorrectly interpretated. 

George, what you said makes sense and Chumley said something which I have studied;
Quote:


I agree with this statement and this is why earth is called a schoolroom. 

Take it and eat it.

THANKYOU ALYSIA LOVE DEANNA

I'm sorry, Aug..the Zohar was written in 13th century Spain..

There are many "sacred" books..the Baghavad Gita, for example..quite sacred also.  The Koran..the Vedas, the bible..all of these are "holy" books..with bits of truth, but not complete, and yes, distorted down through the years by man attempting to translate and interpret them.

One is not more "sacred" than any other..and in my opinion, the only knowledge worth truly considering..is that which is within the realm of really knowing.

I know it may seem like I'm just being argumentative here, but I'm not really.  When one makes definitive statements such as "this is the most sacred book" it discounts what everyone else holds as sacred.  I don't hold Jewish beliefs above any others..nor below.  They are all equal and valid in my sight.

B-dawg wrote on Oct 21^st, 2006 at 8:52am:


Interesting thoughts. I don't exactly seem to relish your views on this board but you do get me thinking!
If you perceive being in the afterlife as being in a freaked out dream world for all eternity, then from what I've been reading that might occur for you! But I believe in the 'version' of re-incarnation where you not only have multiple earth lives, but multiple lives between lives in the spirit world. So if you believe that the afterlife or 'interlife' is a freaked out dream world, then atleast you would wake up in a new life when you incarnate next. The mini-version is going on on a daily basis in our lives in C1, 'freaky dreamworld' when we sleep as you put it and then we wake up. Perhaps our daily lives are a mini-version or metaphor for this process?    I would hope this 'freaky dreamworld' could also be a very pleasant one. Depending on your willingness to receive peace and enlightenment.

Thats very good what u said Spooky, its like u take the words from my mouth as one time I was in a repititive nightmare and got very tired of it and asked the monster to go ahead and eat me, at least I could stop running then. I was wondering if u read this story I posted long ago? but no matter it bears repeating and its probably similar for many to just say ok I'm finished with that little matter. surprisingly, I never get eaten up as expected that is a thrill of discovery, we are always safer than we think we are.  thank you, alysia