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Evolution, the greatest hurdle?. (Read 27421 times)
Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #45 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 11:36am
 
About generalising.

Everyone generalise's, and i mean everyone.

You see a 30 stone man....do you think he is a top marathon runner? do you think theres ever been a 30 stone top marathon runner?. chances are 99.9% of them ar'nt gonna be marathon runners. Thus, it's a well justified assumption.

Im seeing people who claim to have oobe's on regular occasion's and people who claim to be "psychic" as people who are looking for a way to explain stuff whats happenend in there life. Thus rejecting all logical reasoning, and seeking out a paranormal reason for things that happen. Not to mention the lack of talent in any area, thus resulting to them having to make stuff up/Make something out of nothing.

Nothing i hate worse then liars, apart from cowards.

Now, i know people are gonna say...this is untrue etc etc. But it's what i believe, go visit 50 different psychics - 45+ will be complete frauds.

Theres 1000's upon thousands of people who claim to be "psychic" and have "obe's". Yet why dont they prove something for once, instead of getting rich off books/newspaper articals.

If they truely believed in PUL...and proving the existance of the afterlife, they would be mercyless in there pursuit of this goal. Yet all they seem to do is sit around patting each other on the back because they are so good at imagining stuff.

This full area is full of hypocrits and blood sucking leech's.

I for one, would die for what i believe. If you belived in the afterlfie so strongley - you should put everything you have into it. If not - you dont have the right to complain about everything you claim is wrong with the world, when your to dam lazy to change anything.

Now this post is'nt aimed at anyone in particular. It's just something for people who claim to be little angels of light to think about, while there sucking up to each other after afternoon meditation.

Be assured if i ever find good proof for the afterlife. I'll share it with you. And with the world.
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« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2006 at 4:13pm by N/A »  
 
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deanna
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #46 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 6:07pm
 
everything i have experienced is true i,ve no reason to lie about paranormal experiences and yes i dont have a very good life i,v faced a lot of hurt in my life but that has got nothing to do with having paranormal experiences and anyway i like to know that my dad is in a beautiful  place it makes me feel better i think idf you had your own paranormal experience you wouldnt be so quick to judge people what have had one  i dont like it when these so called scientists go on about the way us humans were made they think they know everything but they dont i dont care how many studies theyve done i believe in god jesus and the spirit world  and i always will deanna
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deanna
 
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Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #47 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 6:33pm
 
Quote:
everything i have experienced is true i,ve no reason to lie about paranormal experiences and yes i dont have a very good life i,v faced a lot of hurt in my life but that has got nothing to do with having paranormal experiences and anyway i like to know that my dad is in a beautiful  place it makes me feel better i think idf you had your own paranormal experience you wouldnt be so quick to judge people what have had one  i dont like it when these so called scientists go on about the way us humans were made they think they know everything but they dont i dont care how many studies theyve done i believe in god jesus and the spirit world  and i always will deanna


If a magician Made an elephant disappear, would you think it the will of god or a parlor trick?

Why do you believe in jesus and god? have you met them? Have you experienced anything paranormal...or are you just relying on what others have told you?

Maybe they tell you such things to make you feel better?
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deanna
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #48 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 6:51pm
 
hi spitfire firstly if a magician made an elephant dissapear i,d think well hes a good magician he should go far  in the television world  the reason i believe in jesus and god  and the spirit world because i have had paranormal things happen to me and also i need god in my life i am going throgh a tough time at the moment and its nice to know that god is there for me if nobody else is  and when i go to the spiritualist church on sundays they have a different medium every week and i get messages from my dad and the messages are pretty accurate deanna
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deanna
 
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Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #49 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 7:04pm
 
Quote:
hi spitfire firstly if a magician made an elephant dissapear i,d think well hes a good magician he should go far  in the television world  the reason i believe in jesus and god  and the spirit world because i have had paranormal things happen to me and also i need god in my life i am going throgh a tough time at the moment and its nice to know that god is there for me if nobody else is  and when i go to the spiritualist church on sundays they have a different medium every week and i get messages from my dad and the messages are pretty accurate deanna


Have you ever heard of cold reading? They can give as good as any psychic.

You may have had paranormal things happen to you...but was it jesus or god doing these things? how do you know? You know the church is against mediumship?

You dont need god or jesus in your life, Your stronger then you realise. Take pride from the fact, and dont put your faith in properganda.
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SunriseChaos
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #50 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 8:47pm
 
Quote:
a recent tv program, took 2000 psychics and tested them, and got it down to 6 in the end.
These 6 crackpots....could'nt tell  which 2 woman out of 10 were pregnant....They then took 5 married couples and asked them to match them.....once again the so called psychic's did worse then if someone guessed.



Spitfire,
I have been enjoying your post for a while now. Some members here don't get british good old sarcasm but I do.
Anyway, it's just so great the way you try to prove the afterlife to yourself. You keep on exposing your personal doubts in hope that someone here can tear them apart but they never will and you know that. I don't think your heart is open to that.
Why would you only tell about the negative points in the tv program with the psychics? Why wasn't it worth to mention the psychic able to match up all five couples and all the validations offered about the WWII pub by all of them. Specially the woman who made the bartender cry giving details of his dead friend. You are not being impartial here.
I have doubts myself but my heart is open.
Skeptics will be skeptics and I have the proof at home living with me. My partner is so clueless about spirituality that it wouldn't surprise me if in a previous life he had been the ant you speak about in one of your post. If you look up skeptic in the dictionary there next to the definition is a picture of my partner, even though on Dec 00 he got first hand validation of the afterlife.
His granddad was dying and as he visited with him during his last few hours he told him that he knew he was dying because they had come to get him.
Now, we are talking of someone (the granddad) living in a 5 house village in the middle of nowhere with no running water, where electricity gets cut off in the early evening. He grew up in a country separated from the world by its communist government and ghosts to him are inhabitants of the forest that can make people crazy and have been known to kill as well. It will be decades before anyone can introduce new age ideas to these people however they do get to experience things like parting visions.
I would have thought that kind of validation would change my partner's mind but it hasn't. Skeptic will always look for the fifth leg of the cat instead of just accepting the evidence. I think you are the same and probably won't open your heart until you are dead, and can experience the afterlife for yourself.
When I think about it I feel that parting vision should have been witnessed by me. I so wish it had been me but as they say God give bread to the toothless.

Peace.

SC
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I LOST MY HEART. I BURIED IT TOO DEEP UNDER THE IRON SEA. - KEANE&&------------------------------------------------------------&&LIFE IS WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHILE YOU ARE BUSY MAKING OTHER PLANS - JOHN LENNON
 
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Niven
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #51 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 9:22pm
 
Isnt the proper gadgetry unavailable to scientifically decipher a pyschic event properly?

Unless you mean b.s detector, err..

What you have to look for and pay attention to is its genuineness of information. And the amount of distortion within the information.
Thats what psychic activity is, inner communication  of information.
Though the problem is, or else we would all be psychics, which we are, the problem is that no one pays attention to their communications.
Though doing so will avail to you information. Actions.
call it what you will....esp, telekinesis, intuition, a hunch, for sight, bi-locationality, precognition...and on.
We are a species that is evolving, if you like that word, though it holds distortion. We are very much not evolving, though it could appear that way.
We are not evolving. We are uncovering ancient ruins, we are uncovering our heritage. Which is a knowledge.
Which comes from trusting your self, and opening up to your communications and tuning into them for information and uncovering yourself with them.

Though only thing left to evolve from is the distortion in our information, especially the distortions that have you believing your not already psychic. Or possess all those talents.
Its largely about the suggestions you offer yourself , anyway:)
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deanna
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #52 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 8:20am
 
spitfire everyone needs someone in their life who they can turn to in times of trouble its not so lonely then. deanna.
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deanna
 
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Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #53 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 9:24am
 
Quote:
Spitfire,
I have been enjoying your post for a while now. Some members here don't get british good old sarcasm but I do.
Anyway, it's just so great the way you try to prove the afterlife to yourself. You keep on exposing your personal doubts in hope that someone here can tear them apart but they never will and you know that. I don't think your heart is open to that.
Why would you only tell about the negative points in the tv program with the psychics? Why wasn't it worth to mention the psychic able to match up all five couples and all the validations offered about the WWII pub by all of them. Specially the woman who made the bartender cry giving details of his dead friend. You are not being impartial here.
I have doubts myself but my heart is open.
Skeptics will be skeptics and I have the proof at home living with me. My partner is so clueless about spirituality that it wouldn't surprise me if in a previous life he had been the ant you speak about in one of your post. If you look up skeptic in the dictionary there next to the definition is a picture of my partner, even though on Dec 00 he got first hand validation of the afterlife.
His granddad was dying and as he visited with him during his last few hours he told him that he knew he was dying because they had come to get him.
Now, we are talking of someone (the granddad) living in a 5 house village in the middle of nowhere with no running water, where electricity gets cut off in the early evening. He grew up in a country separated from the world by its communist government and ghosts to him are inhabitants of the forest that can make people crazy and have been known to kill as well. It will be decades before anyone can introduce new age ideas to these people however they do get to experience things like parting visions.
I would have thought that kind of validation would change my partner's mind but it hasn't. Skeptic will always look for the fifth leg of the cat instead of just accepting the evidence. I think you are the same and probably won't open your heart until you are dead, and can experience the afterlife for yourself.
When I think about it I feel that parting vision should have been witnessed by me. I so wish it had been me but as they say God give bread to the toothless.

Peace.

SC    


Ello sun,

I am open to proof, but as someone once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What is more importent then proof of the afterlife?..thus is requires firm and solid evidence.

Your right about the psychic program though, i was quite aggroed when i made that post, and did'nt feel like analysing both sides of the argument.

The psychic program was pretty pants though....the pregnant woman and the married couples....they were just guessing. I got more right by logical deduction then they did. these chumps are ment to be the best from 2000 people....it really gives psychics a bad name. They could have researched that pub before going there - and they could feel thats a medal, thus concluding...who gets a medal...military- though the one who made the connection with the guy stood in the room- was more impressive then the other smucks. the pregnant woman should have scored 100% in my views for them to rpove they had some talent. But anyway im hoping for some better tests this week Smiley.

When the brain starts shutting down, it starts to imagine things....i remember when my grandmother was in hospital on the verge of death, she said she saw aliens behind her bed?...

I would'nt call that proof though, because it's to easily explainable.

your right though, theres a line inbetween skeptics and psychics.... a psychic feels a breeze and says theres jesus is in the room....while a skeptic has I AM ALIVE carved into there living room wall and thinks a can of paint as exploded during the middle of the night.

I do think 99.9% of psychics are fake though. But, theres 1 psychic i know - to which i have alot of faith in the abilities of, and his name is gorden smith, aka "the psychic barber". He does'nt say...i have someone here who loves you....yada yada. He's like "i have a young man here". "his name is steve" - "he died quickly in a traffic accident" - "your his mother doris ar'nt you".

Now thats what i call impressive. This is the type of proof, i can believe and defend.

If i put all my money on 1 bet on a roulette wheel based on a drunks advice, i would be a fool. Thats how i feel alot of the times....because people who have obe's are like the drunk, but there high on love juice and self dellusion. ( apart from a few, DocM, Justin, Bets).

If i placed my bet all on 1 number of a roulette wheel when it's landed on the same number for  the past 100,000 spins, i would say thats a good bet.

It's just....massively life altering...and such a massive claim, needs massive proof. I hope i find it:).

Thanks for your reply.
-Spit-
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mattb1000
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #54 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 9:50am
 
Quote:
I am open to proof.... Ok that would be cool as you would look at both sides and be subjective, thats the best way to be and ....

Your right about the psychic program though, i was quite aggroed when i made that post, and did'nt feel like analysing both sides of the argument.. Shocked   O...k , what Happened to your first sentence about being open to proof?


When the brain starts shutting down, it starts to imagine things....i remember when my grandmother was in hospital on the verge of death, she said she saw aliens behind her bed?...

I would'nt call that proof though, because it's to easily explainable.

is it?

Why would she see aliens? Perhaps because her physical brain was seeing something that was "alien" to her?

Mate, can you so easily dismiss that event?
Were you present, can you remember more of what she said?



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The Road goes ever on and on&& Down from the door where it began....&&Where many paths and errands meet.&& And whither then? I cannot say.&&&&&&
 
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Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #55 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 10:43am
 
Quote:
Ok that would be cool as you would look at both sides and be subjective, thats the best way to be and ....
O...k , what Happened to your first sentence about being open to proof?


My judgement may have been rash, but it was still correct. The negatives out weighed the pro's by a long way, anyone who watched it. Would understand, they looked like clowns. I am open...as you can see.....i even re-evaluated what i put...

Quote:
is it?  

Why would she see aliens? Perhaps because her physical brain was seeing something that was "alien" to her?

Mate, can you so easily dismiss that event?
Were you present, can you remember more of what she said?


i was present yea....she was off the rockers....she was screaming abuse at her son in between mumbling about the nurse's abusing her and the alien behind her bed.

The alien was a brain enduced illusion. She saw loads of things, and when she got better - never had any problems with them again.

it's like saying a kid goes around smashing gravestones because of the way he was raised - but the main fact was he was a heroin addict, and it was affecting his brain.

Edit: Btw, if you copy and paste the section of test you wish to add a comment to. and then put ["Quote"] at the begining and ["/quote"] at the end, both without the speech marks, you can quote the text, and slap your reply under the quotes.
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Bud_S
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #56 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 11:18am
 
Quote:
i was present yea....she was off the rockers....she was screaming abuse at her son in between mumbling about the nurse's abusing her and the alien behind her bed.

The alien was a brain enduced illusion. She saw loads of things, and when she got better - never had any problems with them again.



Spitfire, speculate if you will on the following two items:
-From your perspective of a 1st hand witness of someone you know seeing an alien, what evolutionary advantage do you suppose such illusions have? 

-Also, what natural selection mechanism gave rise to the ability to see said aliens no one else was seeing?

I'm trying to get to your position on the many useless capabilities of the human brain - capabilities that have nothing to do with surviving till breeding age and passing on genes.  I'm not arguing either way for the reasons, I just find it fascinating trying to figure out why these things arise, and whether our fellow mammals see alien equivalents in times of duress/sickness, if it has some purpose, or just an unfortunate neural side effect.
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Spitfire
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #57 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 11:59am
 
Quote:
Spitfire, speculate if you will on the following two items:
-From your perspective of a 1st hand witness of someone you know seeing an alien, what evolutionary advantage do you suppose such illusions have?  

-Also, what natural selection mechanism gave rise to the ability to see said aliens no one else was seeing?

I'm trying to get to your position on the many useless capabilities of the human brain - capabilities that have nothing to do with surviving till breeding age and passing on genes.  I'm not arguing either way for the reasons, I just find it fascinating trying to figure out why these things arise, and whether our fellow mammals see alien equivalents in times of duress/sickness, if it has some purpose, or just an unfortunate neural side effect.


Ive got a book, about the universe being holographic in nature.

A scientist. Cut out different segments of rats brain, and also later on with humans who had eplilepsy, and he found you can remove up to 90% of someone/somethings brain. Without memory being eradicated. A hologram can be broken down into 100 fragments, but each fragment will give you the whole image just 100 times smaller. He thought the brain operated this way, because as he stimulated areas of the brain in people - he found he could activate memory's by firing electrodes into any area of the brain. He thinks everytime you learn something it is cascaded like a stone thrown into a pond and the ripples send the infomation to every cell in your brain.

Only when the control centre's, which control movement - speech etc are damaged that the infomation thats contained cannot be expressed physically like a normal person can.

Thus when the brain is shutting down/not getting enough oxygen, the control centre cant access the infomation required as it normally would, thus leading to delusions. and hallucinations.
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DocM
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #58 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 12:08pm
 
Spitfire,

There is also another explanation of Lashley's experiments with rats (he burned their brains, in many parts, but they still remembered a maze). 

1.  If consciousness is not created by the physical brain, but the brain is a receiver, you could also destroy certain segments of the receiver but not affect specific memory.

So the holographic idea, while interesting may be off.  The idea may be that our entire physical structure is infused with our consciousness; that "we" our essence, and our memory are not just created by our bodies.

My take.

Matthew
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Bud_S
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Re: Evolution, the greatest hurdle?.
Reply #59 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 12:20pm
 
Quote:
Thus when the brain is shutting down/not getting enough oxygen, the control centre cant access the infomation required as it normally would, thus leading to delusions. and hallucinations.


So is it your position the brain in it's oxygen deprived state resorts to a more energy intense activity such as imagining new and different things?  Why would it not resort to lower life support functions and not waste resources on higher brain function?  Doesn't seem very consistent with an evolved survival advantage does it?  (I know it's a null hypothesis, but I'm not trying to prove anything)
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