I have to say, if you follow the links to the voice recordings of Oscar Wilde, they appear witty, sarcastic and authentic - really quite remarkable.  Now Elias claims he was Wilde in a recent incarnation (Wilde afterall did not perish that long ago).  Read and listen, and you will see this voice sounds like the witty author.   Elias sounds nothing like Wilde, on the tape.  I know the rebuttal will be that the essence is different than the specific person.  Yada yada yada.

Houdini debunked many people, if this was genuine, it bears listening to some more of these tapes.

Thanks for the post.

Matthew

Intresting.

What i like about direct communication is, it's better then having someone merely pass on messages. It gives you more areas to judge/test.

I would like a living example though , someone who could be tested while being filmed. It allows you to see frame by frame, and therefore it is easier to see foul play.

The gag + the vocal cord moniter was a good idea though, but i would have liked it to be using more up to date technology, but i'll have a look around to see if i can find an experiement conducted closer to the end of his life.

Im not 100% trustworthy of the infomation which was piped through though.

They are all Nice messages,but alas, do not contain infomation which would prove there identity. They all say how wonderful the afterlife is, but they dont kind of say is somthing which few people would know, and to which the medium would have no clue of.

I also wonder why ectoplasim is not used very much these days?. It leads me to think that it was something which was believable before the invent of modern technology, and as doc said houdini did break alot of mediums.

Anyone who gives themselves over to be tested, gains respect in my book though.

It's hard to think of a way he could have produced such affects with his mouth full of water, unless the sitters were in on it?

Worth Studying. Thanks for the link.

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Good point, i did'nt think there was any children on the other side? i thought we re-gained all our knowledge from which we have learned from previous lives?

That throws a big spanner in the works.

It does sound like a child though, he must be very good at doing voices, if it's not really done through paranormal meens.

I'm glad you all liked it guys , I knew you would

Many psi scientists at the time accused Flint of all sorts of hocum, such as mental schizophrenia and dual or even multiple personalities.  I believe that Spitfire's theory on the audience being invloved is silly becuase it states from a BBC report investigating Flint's abilities that tests were done with Flint locked in the room with up to 3 different RESPECTED scientists and yet he still could produce these remarkable voices, emitted from what seemed to be an external voicebox made of ectoplasm.  According to Victor Zammit's website, Flint could also produce totally accurate facts such as dates, times etc. about the person who supposedly came through, Cold guessing and hot guessing were ruled out according to Zammit's site.

I am not 100% sure that any medium who claims to have a "famous" spirit talk to them is genuine as their memory of the person could get in the way, although nobody will ever be able to prove or disprove this theory.  I also don't fully believe that those ectoplasm photos should be trusted but there is one that sticks out in my mind to be 100% genuine as the technology to fake it in that particular way was not even invented yet.

The amazing photo
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ewichm/vboxstot.jpg


There is another page that I have found highly interesting that gives more detailed information about the tests that were carried out on Flint when he was alive to prove/disprove his ability, the sight clearly points out that he was genuine.

The site is
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/experiments/direct-voice/flint.htm

Jambo and all,

You raise an issue that I simply must comment on.
Periodically, I have recommended David Fontana's book, "Is There an Afterlife?   A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence" as the most enthralling book of its kind.   The book contains nine lucid chapters on the evidential value of classical mediumship.   As disdainful as I am of popular "TV mediums" and modern channeled entities like Seth and Elias, the classical mediums discussed by Fontana are of a much higher order.  Particularly impressive are Fontana's chapters on independent voice phenomena (including Flint's mediumship), transdimensional communication devices (on which indepedent voices are recorded which can even give details like former social security numbers), and physical mediumship (psychokinesis, levitation).  

So not all channeling can be dismissed as ESP or fraud (conscious or unconscious).  At its best, channeling is either genuine or spirit impersonation of discarnate humans.   Remember that prior to the 19th century western revival of mediumship (e.g. the Fox sisters from Rochester, NY), channeling was usually credited to a god or a demon rather than a discarnate human.   Who is to say which of these sources is culturally biased misperception?  

The spirit impersonation theory derives support from various sources, most spectacularly from the exorcism that inspired the horror movie "The Exorcist."  The possession began when a lonely little boy, Robbie, (not a girl as in the movie) tried to use a Ouija board to contact his beloved deceased Aunt Harriet.  The possessing entity exploited Robbie's longing for contact and deceived him, gradually achieving a ghastly possession replete with the classical symptoms.  My former office was next door to a professor who personally  knew Father Bowdern, the priest who performed this famous exorcism.  Thomas Allen's book is based on Bowdern's diaries of the exorcism.  The book "Possessed: The True Story of an Exorcism").  recounts the supernatural phenomena accompanying the exorcism (e.g. teleportation and messages from Hell engraved on the boy's skin).  

Here is just one extended quote from Thomas Allen's book that illustrates the entity's gradual deception and possession of little Robbie:

"After six nights of squeaking shoes, Phyllis [the Mom] and Grandmother Wagner went into Robbie's room and lay with him on his bed.  They all heard the sound of moving feet, but the feet seemed to be marching to the beat of drums.  Up the bed, down the bed, up the bed, down..."

"Phyllis again waited, then said, `If you are Harriet, tell me positively by knocking 4 times.'  A pressure wave, and then a knock.  A wave.   A knock.  A wave.  A knock...A wave and the fourth knock.  Now below them, inside the mattress they lay on, they heard what seemed to be the scratching of a claw...they felt the sound undulating through the mattress...It was at that moment...that the mattress began to shake, gently at first, then violently.  When the shaking stopped, the edges of the bedcover flew out from under the mattress... The edges of the covers stood up above the surface of the bed in a curled form as though held up with starch (pp. 6-7).'"

Despite such cases, I oppose that standard Christian view that all such paranormal communications are demonic.  Why?  For the same reason that I oppose many New Age claims on this site: the justification for such a blanket dismissal of channeling is unfalsifiable even in principle and prematurely precludes further investigation.

A PERSONAL NOTE ON OUIJA BOARDS:

When I was a professor, a group of education professors approached me one day and asked what I thought of Ouija boards.  I admitted that its use can be harmless fun.  But I warned that many I knew had been badly burned by deceptive spirit contacts that were intially friendly but ultimately  revealed their evil demonic identity.  

The professors seemed distraught.  What they had concealed from me is this: they had already been playing with a Ouija board at a recent party and had eventually been terrorized by a spirit  allegedly from Hell.   My warning was consistent with their own experience!  

Don

P.S.  I know I sometimes come on strong, but the recent deletion of my post (and Rondele's) is unacceptable to me.   It's not that I object to posters "ratting us out."   But the thought police are highly selective in their censorship.   So why don't I "rat out" guys myself?  My honor code!  I may take my adversaries out to the metaphysical woodshed, but I will always respect their confidences in PMs and respect their right to vent, especially against me.   Perhaps, I should just admit that I'm a fish out of water here.  I must reassess whether I should continue posting, especially in the light of the censorship "dissing" of Rondele (my favorite poster on this board).      

Spit, if you've read my posts, you'd realize that I don't prejudge (a) whether the spirits are evil discarnate humans (so Swedenborg) or demons (so e.g. Robert Bruce) or (b) whether they actually come from Hell or otherwise.  What is iniitally important is who they say they are and where they claim to come from, especially when the Ouija players don't even believe in Hell, as in the case of the education professors. Remember, though, that the reality of hellish planes is independently verified by NDEs, New Age astral adepts,  Swedenborg, the Bible, and most of channeling.   I don't know how one could determine whether or not these spirits are discarnate humans. We know so little about how much power can be generated by the unified efforts of the malevolent dead.

Last night, I scouted many of your past posts and, as a result, am even more eager to "get it on with you."    Still, I may not do so because I don't like "rats."   Of course, I know it's Bruce's board.    But my motto is: "To thine own self be true."  I regret nothing that I've posted.  

Don      

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Thnx for the link GW, there explainations aint great for why ectoplasm aint being used anymore though.



A picture is worth a thousand words, as they do say. and a big ball of goo that looks like a face telling me somthing, would get my attention rather more then someone telling me something about a relative, which i could pass off as a guess.

Point 2, i can except that - but theres people who do mediumship ever day, and the more you do the better you get. People can make a living from mediumship, and they can get paid for there talents far more so then the 1800's. So they have more practice which should lead to better skills, and you would think something with as much impact as ectoplasm, would be prefered to a few messages, and if it is the goal of mediums to prove the afterlife, you would think they would take this avenue.



As i said, i did'nt "rat" you out. But If it means that much to you, pm bruce and ask him.

You can scout me out all you like, it does'nt matter, someone who can only insult through words, is a coward - and cowards disgust me.

The only reason you dont regret what you have posted, is because you are behind a computer screen, safe from the consequences of your actions.

Im sure your much more civil face to face.