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Fear and Hell (Read 6231 times)
DocM
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Fear and Hell
Nov 11th, 2005 at 9:05am
 
Chumley's posts of Hell, and the hypothetical scenarios made me think of a good theme to start a thread about; Fear.  If we create our own realms for consciousness, then fear likely will play a big role in people who get stuck in various places.  

I agree that fear and love don't coexist (I can't recall who started a thread like that).  I read Bruce's account of a Banshee that terrified a man, that was banished by shining PUL at it (I believe by Bruce's partner).

I think that not only is love the answer to a happy existence, but losing fear is as well.  We must confront our fears and then turn our positive creative energy and being "on," to create the present life, and yes the afterlife we all need.  We must also have a belief in this positive approach and not let our consciousness wander down the path.

A common theme that posters here talk about is the "what ifs" about hells and inescapable eternities.  However, we hear from so many sources that these are all self-created.  That we have free will and choices ALWAYS.  Our thoughts create our realities.

Yes, fear may be innate, inbred or an ancient defense mechanism, but our conscious minds are stonger than our fears - they can be conquered.  

So talk of oblivion if you want; I will remain unshakeable in my belief in the positive, and the possibility of creating great things with love and happiness.

Matthew
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Re: Letting go of Fear
Reply #1 - Nov 11th, 2005 at 9:51am
 
DocM:

I agree with what you wrote. Plus I bet that God doesn't have any fear. The more we embrace our God like nature, letting go of what isn't God like as we do so, the less fear we'll have.

I hope I didn't sound to religious, since I'm not religious. My guess is that God is the coolest being (I almost said "dude") on the block.
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #2 - Nov 11th, 2005 at 10:19pm
 
That's OK Albert, God/dess doesn't mind if we call him/her dude/dudette. LOL

Love, Mairlyn  Grin
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #3 - Nov 12th, 2005 at 10:57pm
 
DocM,

As you know, religions often degrade their otherwise lofty spirituality by using fear as a tool of manipulation.  Yet the impossibility of fear and the highest love coexisting in the same mind is axiomatic both in New Age and biblical spirituality:

e.g. "There is no fear in real love because perfect love expels all fear.  If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment, and this shows that love has not been perfected in us (1 John 5:18)."

Yet the role of love and fear in spiritual growth is more complex than many realize.  There are several types of fear, some positive and others negative.  In biblical spirituality it is the "fear of the Lord", not love for the Lord, that "is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 1:7). "  This positive fear is a form of reverential awe seasoned with humiilty, not a fear of punishment.   For many, fear plays a vital role in the development of self-discipline and as a wake-up call in the face of danger.  Fear can augment empathy.  For example, my love can be tenderized by my fear that you might experience disappointment  or failure.  Even fear of punishment can play a positive role for children and adults at a certain level of moral consciousness.
The many types of fear and its complex positive and negative roles should discourage us from contenting ourselves with any simple-minded perspective on the role of fear in astral exploration and the afterlife.

For that matter, "love" is an even more contaminated term than "fear."  As a starting point, the highest form of Christian love (Greek: "agape") can be defined as "willing the highest good for another without requiring anything in return."  But this--indeed any definition-- is inadequate to encompass the profound mystery and multi-faceted nature of love.  What I have most objected to on this site is the frequent confusion of "ecstasy" with "love" and the false impression that love can be reduced to a psychic energy that can be astrally projected to someone in need of retrieval.  Ecstasy is at best an emotional side effect of love, not the heart of love itself.  "Agape" love must be conceived more as a way of being than an emotion to be projected.  Well, enough of my rambling!

Don
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2005 at 7:29am
 
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For that matter, "love" is an even more contaminated term than "fear."  As a starting point, the highest form of Christian love (Greek: "agape") can be defined as "willing the highest good for another without requiring anything in return."  But this--indeed any definition-- is inadequate to encompass the profound mystery and multi-faceted nature of love.  What I have most objected to on this site is the frequent confusion of "ecstasy" with "love" and the false impression that love can be reduced to a psychic energy that can be astrally projected to someone in need of retrieval.  Ecstasy is at best an emotional side effect of love, not the heart of love itself.  "Agape" love must be conceived more as a way of being than an emotion to be projected.  Well, enough of my rambling!

Don


Hello Don,

After reading your post I started thinking about what you said in the above quote.  Especially about how the term love is “contaminated” or I’d probably use the word distorted and done so by feeling fear, which causes us to skew and block this love energy.  Most of the time I tend to think about things in terms of the movement of energy or the movement of subtle substance.  Many, if not all people tend to think of love as an emotion that we experience, but several years ago I started thinking about love as being more of what energy feels like in free movement of substance experienced within each of us as humans always in connection with our energetic higher self.  Or “the Spirit of God moving over the face of the waters” type of thing that’s not separate from us, but is us. 

When I began to see auras and the movement of the energy of substance contained within them I noticed the energetic interaction of people.  I saw that people continually use the energy or substance of their aura to send and receive information.  For example if a single person is looking for a mate, that person will send out streamers of energy from their field into someone’s field to determine if that person is compatible.  One evening several years ago I was at a bar with some friends and watched this energetic play of auras in the room.  People can send out these streamers clear across a crowded room to find someone they’re attracted to. 

One couple whom I knew were both married and not to each other had quite an energetic show going on.  Both were with their spouses, but the play of streamers between their fields clearly told me they were having an affair.  Other people knew this, too, not because they saw the interaction of their auras as I did, but because they could feel the energy between them as they projected energetic substance from their auras into the fields of these two people.

Another example is one day I walked into my office to meet with a young man I’d been counseling for a few weeks and the first thing I noticed was that his aura felt like porcupine needles sticking me.  On closer inspection, his aura did indeed look like sharp pointed needles.  The young man was in a state of terror.  As we talked he first became angry and shot out a red glob of energy that looked like a dagger toward me, then suddenly he turned it around and he stabbed himself in the heart with it and began to cry.

As far as I can tell no matter what we do, we are always communicating in an energetic way with others… even in the words we write in this forum.  There’s a projection of energy that goes out from us as movement of substance and we each feel this energetic interaction through words written here.  And of course we filter this through our own belief systems.  You’ve mentioned that sometimes it bothers you when people say they send PUL and / or sign off using the word love.  I can understand this and probably at times what you sense is not pure, but distorted love energy in the sense that the person has mixed emotions (fears) that cause the energy of love to be distorted.  This can either on their part or on your own part in your interpretation of such an event.  When the energy of love flows freely between two people, it does feel blissful to both parties involved. 

In the Spirit of Love,
Kathy
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 1:43am
 
Kathy, thank you so much for this post. I was fascinated by your relating about the aura's sending out streamers, but as I think about it, it makes so much sense. I can see it so clearly now in my mind. I learn so much from you.

And the Love energy is the glue that holds everything together, at least that's the way I see it.

Much Love,
Mairlyn Wink
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 11:18am
 
Thank you for the info on auras Kathy.

I once sent a friend energy from my heart chakra, and she felt it.

I get the sense that time and space don't mean anything when it comes to sending love to each other.

And regarding astral projection, I don't believe that we actually leave our body and travel from one physical location to another. Rather, we change our vibrational rate. Nothing is too far away to contact with love. However, sometimes people set up limitations in their minds.
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 2:38pm
 
Quote:
And regarding astral projection, I don't believe that we actually leave our body and travel from one physical location to another. Rather, we change our vibrational rate. Nothing is too far away to contact with love. However, sometimes people set up limitations in their minds.


YES Albert, this is what I believe too. I remember, not too long ago, posting that we don't actually go out of body, that it's more a matter of going inside ourselves. And being jumped on by someone, can't remember who right now. But yes, it's a matter of changing our vibration.  Shocked

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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #8 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 6:49pm
 
Kathy,

I suspect there may be something to aura readings.  I was Best Man for my friend Russ's wedding.  Russ was renting his house to a female aura reader.  She was irresponsible in many ways; so I had little confidence in her readings.  She read two of my friends and came up with bland platitudes that impressed no one.  But she surprised me when she read mine.  She claimed I had a green aura which showed promise as a healer.  I discounted this at the time, but since then, have seen healing miracles in response to prayer.  She then told me that I would soon experience a personal catastrophe and would allow this to bother me more than it should.  A week or so later, a drunken female driver totalled my parked car that I had just purchased in Colorado and driven to New York.  The prediction impressed me, although it made me wonder whether she could really read auras or was merely clairvoyant.   And why was she so unimpressive in reading my two friends' auras?

I don't think you should identify "aura streamers" as love.  Your example of an affair between 2 married people sounds like lust or infatuation, not love.  True married love is faithful, not selfish: "Love never fails (1 Corinthians 13)."  Of course, I don't know the situation of the people involved.   But true love manifests itself even when we feel no energy or emotion.  Love transcends feelings.  Distorted perspectives on energies felt and expressed during alleged retrievals are dangerous if this means that the projector generally only manifests this when she feels it.  Again, the traditional term "ecstasy" seems preferable to me.  During spiritual ecstasy one temporarily feels an affectionate unity with everyone.

In my view it is shocking that the obvious tests have not been used to verify or refute aura claims.  Let a group of aura readers independently examine the same group of people and then compare their claims.  See if they agree on either color textures or interpretations.  Until that obvious tests are conducted, skepticism is warranted. 

Don
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 2:48am
 
Hi Don,

Sorry to hear about your car.  I’m not disagreeing with your description of love.  In fact I agree with it.  I don’t “read auras” but I’d agree that clairvoyance probably played a role in your reading.  I can also definitely see you as a healer as well.  I’ve felt this type of energy projection from you in many of your posts.  No doubt you have been a blessing to many.   

I don’t believe I identified streamers as love.  These can be projected outward from any emotion.  Usually the color is a clue as to the type of emotions the person is feeling and in the case of the couple I spoke of, I’d say it was lust.  My point is that we are always interacting on an energetic level with people.  The energy itself produces pleasure when flowing freely.  It feels blissful or like you say… a feeling of ecstasy.  Many people in this world call it love.  We say things like I love this… I love that, etc. and what they are usually describing is a pleasurable free flowing energy regarding something. 

I understand what you’re getting at though and would totally agree that love transcends feelings and manifests itself even when there’s no energy or emotion felt, which is why I think love is more than just an emotion.  Is the energy itself love?  I really don’t know.  At this point I’d probably say the energy is neutral, but feels like love running through a physical body when it flows smoothly.  We all know what it feels like when we don’t allow it to flow freely… we get physical / emotional reactions that cause us pain.

As far as tests / skeptics are concerned… it doesn’t really matter to me.  I see what I see and one day I’m sure everyone will see the same thing as I do.  In fact, I’d say that most people are capable of learning how to see energy fields now.  Actually it use to drive me up the wall years ago.  I avoided crowds like the plague.  I don’t usually talk about seeing these all that much.  And only at certain times do I pay attention to what I see.  Most of the time it’s like driving down the street and you know there are houses along the side of the road, but you don’t really see them unless you focus your attention on them. 

For anyone who wants to prove it to himself or herself that it is possible to see your energy field or at least the first level closest to the physical body… hold your fingers pointed toward each other in front of your monitor displaying a white background.  Let your eyes relax or become unfocused a bit.  Notice the light not only around your fingers, but also how if you move your fingers up, down and apart the energy pulls like taffy.  The energy of this first level extends about ¼ to 1 inch from the skin and can look like translucent or grayish white light at first.  Continue looking and you’ll probably see a light blue color as this is the color of most people’s first level of their field.  Keep practicing and soon you’ll see the next level, which is the emotional level.  Here our fields are multi-colored depending on the emotions we’re having.  Keep practicing and you’ll soon be seeing more and more of the stuff we are made of. 

Much love and light (not necessarily ecstasy)  Grin
Kathy

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Fear and Hell
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 3:59am
 
I'm intrigued: 'banshee' was mentioned earlier and folk seem to have vague ideas of what this is or was.
Any suggestions?
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 12:46pm
 
Banshee - Definition:

The bean-sidhe (woman of the fairy may be an ancestral spirit appointed to forewarn members of certain ancient Irish families of their time of death. According to tradition, the banshee can only cry for five major Irish families: the O'Neills, the O'Briens, the O'Connors, the O'Gradys and the Kavanaghs. Intermarriage has since extended this select list.

Whatever her origins, the banshee chiefly appears in one of three guises: a young woman, a stately matron or a raddled old hag. These represent the triple aspects of the Celtic goddess of war and death, namely Badhbh, Macha and Mor-Rioghain.) She usually wears either a grey, hooded cloak or the winding sheet or grave robe of the unshriven dead. She may also appear as a washer-woman, and is seen apparently washing the blood stained clothes of those who are about to die. In this guise she is known as the bean-nighe (washing woman).

Although not always seen, her mourning call is heard, usually at night when someone is about to die. In 1437, King James I of Scotland was approached by an Irish seeress or banshee who foretold his murder at the instigation of the Earl of Atholl. This is an example of the banshee in human form. There are records of several human banshees or prophetesses attending the great houses of Ireland and the courts of local Irish kings. In some parts of Leinster, she is referred to as the bean chaointe (keening woman) whose wail can be so piercing that it shatters glass. In Kerry, the keen is experienced as a "low, pleasant singing"; in Tyrone as "the sound of two boards being struck together"; and on Rathlin Island as "a thin, screeching sound somewhere between the wail of a woman and the moan of an owl".

The banshee may also appear in a variety of other forms, such as that of a hooded crow, stoat, hare and weasel - animals associated in Ireland with witchcraft.

I have seen the term banshee used to refer to any demon that can howl and cry in an ear piercing manner....

M
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #12 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 5:08pm
 
Hi Matthew-
Iteresting question you bring up here.

About 1960 a number of us hippie types got interested in LSD and discovered a remarkable thing. The mind set at the start of the intoxication would determine everythign thereafter. That's one reason I learned to do deep hypnotic work, so that I could bypass all the LSD side effects and potential insanity.

The eventual conclusion, supported by going bck to "have the experience" (Ugh! - Not fun!) seems to be that when we lose our physical memory system and can only cognize linearly forward, s in the case of LSD or death, if our mind set includes a sense of nadequacy, guilt, or the equivalent, so that we tend to be fearful, then we regenerate that fear into a selective perception that supports it. This is usually by looking for something that is not fearful, but it gives the same result since it reifies the fear, and anything that seems to make us feel better also gives a negative reinforcement to the gestalt that includes the fear. The result is that things get more and more fearful.

If we can apply will power, you're right, we can escape. But when the sense of self is tangled up with a sense of existential unworthiness, it doesn't work. Experience with past life regressions suggests that there is very little will power aailable in the next interlife phase, unless one is going to be an earthbound spirit, in which case it's the desire for self-will that keeps the spirit earthbound.

To my mind, we have to resolve fears here and now, or we're going to be forced to deal with them later, will power notwithstanding.

dave
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Re: Fear and Hell
Reply #13 - Nov 18th, 2005 at 9:14am
 
Hey Dave,

I look forward to your posts as they are always full of insight.  However, the LSD stuff is a bit off.  NDEs don't at all sound like Acid trips to me.  There is a feeling of clarity of vision and thought, although perhaps it is not with our rational minds.  If the afterlife is in any way like NDEs, we may not have to worry as much about our frame of mind at the very very end.  Bruce has said that as one transitions, the effects of disease and medications fade and there is a recovery of cognition.  I'd like to think that, but am still exploring to find out.

All the Best,

Matthew
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