How could disciples of Bruce and TMI discover whether their astral contacts with deceased spirits are real?  Surely deceased contactees preserve earth memories that allow them to provide information about their lives unknown to the astral traveler.  The ease with which ES provides impressive verifications of the authenticity of his astral contacts raises the question of why similar verifications of modern astral contacts with the deceased are so rare. 

Given the impressive precedent established by ES, why can't Moen/ Monroe methods allow astral explorers to routinely solicit unknown verifiable information from their deceased contacts?  And even if such verifications became routinely possible, one would then need to establish criteria to discern genuine contact from spirit impersonators.    

Hi Don,

According to Van Dusen, ES, since childhood, unknowingly practiced "one of the ancient Hindu Yoga and Buddhist ways to enlightenment where, he would relax, close his eyes and focus in with total concentration on a problem.  At the same time, his breathing would nearly stop.  Awareness of the outer world and even bodily sensation would diminish… His whole existence would focus on the one issue he wanted to understand."  Basically he entered into a Theta state where his brain waves ranged from 4 to 7.5Hz.  Certainly this can be accomplished using many different methods, including Bruce's since it's simply a deep meditative state.

It seems to me the difference between individuals is likely a matter of ability to remain consciously aware while maintaining the Theta state for long periods of time, which it seems ES was able to do quite naturally.  The Theta state can be difficult to maintain and meditators will bounce back to an alpha or beta state or fall into a Delta, or sleep state.  It's a little easier to maintain an alpha/theta border state of about 7 to 8Hz, which is a "mind awake, body asleep" state according to Monroe speak.  It's a great state for visualization, hypnosis, mind programming, etc., but it's not quite deep enough to provide the kind of explorations ES accomplished.

How can people know if their astral contacts with deceased spirits are real?  While it's possible, I'm not so sure all contacts are with an actual deceased person including some of ES's contacts.  There are no objects in a world/reality that's non-physical.  Certainly beings do exist and I imagine some can and do communicate with loved ones, at least initially after they've passed, but if years have gone by I think genuine contact with our loved ones becomes unlikely because they've moved on.  Their consciousness would not have remain static at the end of their life here.  Their new experiences would have changed them in ways we may not recognize with our limited human perspectives.  So the question arises of who or what we are in contact with? 

K

While meditating I experienced something similar with my mom both before and after she passed.  Before I saw a vision of her and I sitting in lawn chairs on the patio of a house we lived in when I was about 12.  In the vision I saw that we were talking but I couldn't hear what was being said.  Shortly after that she got up and I saw her jean clad rear end, and as she walked away from me I heard her say the words, "I'm leaving."  I interpreted the vision as a premonition of her passing.  She died a couple days later. 

A few weeks after she's passed one afternoon while meditating I had another vision of 40's pin up girl poster type pictures.  There were many of these pictures that flashed before me.  First of her as a young girl, then as a beautiful young woman, then her as a mature woman.  The pictures, all different stages of her life, flashed in my mind's eye as though I were watching an old time movie.  The interesting thing was that there was a vague feeling associated with each picture that I don't think was my feeling, but hers, and I was reminded of a review of her life in pictures.  When the "movie" ended, I awash in a beautiful feeling of tangible love all around me.

Roger: "I think those kind of unforced and unexpected experiences are more valid than those that happen when we consciously try to make contact.
Especially via mediums."

That reminds me of the pattern of almost all my paranormal revelations and experiences.  When my eagerness prompts me to "try" to make a wonderful experience happen, it almost never does.  If it's going to happen at all, it happens when I am mentally open, but not fixated on any expectation or result at all.

ES was of course a passionate (if unorthodox) Christian and his trips to the heavens were overwhelmed by an awareness of Christ's presence.  Also, if you've read through this thread, you know that ES's verifications are far, far more impressive than the bulk of alleged verifications by New Age astral explorers.  But let's now turn to contemporary Christian Swedenborgs who explore physical and spiritual realms in OBEs.

Take a stroll outside the New Age Ghetto and watch this practical video on how to tell the difference between authentic OBEs in the form of "Christian spiritual travel" and "astral projection."  The most interesting part of the video for me was how "Praying Medic" demonstrates successful Christian OBE verifications through methods that Buhlman's experiments failed to achieve.  At the end of this video "Praying Medic" points to his website and how-to books and recommends other Christian books on Christian OBEs:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+deaate+OBEs+astral+projection&view=...

"Praying Medic" was an avowed atheist prior to his dramatic converion.  Check out his website for his blogs, videos, and information on his 10 books:

https://prayingmedic.com/about/

Quote:

 
     Regarding C.S. Lewis's book The Screwtape Letters. It should be noted that this book is a fictional account. It should be noted what C.S. Lewis himself wrote in the preface or intro of the book:
   "There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall into about the devils.  One is to disbelieve in their existence.  The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them.  They themselves are equally pleased by both errors*..."

   *My use of bold, italic, and underline. 

  So one might ask the question, why the constant focus and redirection to these negative entities?  Why the spreading of over generalized fear and the advice of one shouldn't explore the afterlife or communicate with guidance because if one does, one will be mislead no questions asked?
     It's not like I don't occasionally address negative beings and how they sometimes mess with people.  I certainly do know and understand that, but to so focus on that so constantly...hmmmm.
    Truth is, if you ask for specific help from specific levels and beings, you will get it if you are sincere and seeking more positively than not. One can ask the Creator, Yeshua, and the collective of pure Light Beings to shield and protect one during a meditation and seeking of information. 
    And if we ask them specifically for such help, why wouldn't they help, when they deeply love us more than we tend to love each other or ourselves?  Do people really think that these negative beings are more powerful than the Creator, Yeshua, and the collective of pure Light Beings? Hmmmm.

      

Recognition of something and focus on something are entirely different things. I'd say a person constantly speaking out against an idea is more focused on that idea than the person who recognizes that the idea may be true when it is of minimal significance in that person's life. Understanding that negative beings exist and taking appropriate precautions does not necessitate a fear-based mentality, but rather that of being grounded in reality.

I have an image of someone saying, "it's silly to let the deadliness of poison determine one's actions" and then jumping into a swimming pool of toxic waste. Discrimination and sound judgement based on the nature of reality is key.