Hiya,

Just wondering what does everyone on here think about people who join the forces, for example the army.

The debate i'm really wondering about is people in the armed forces having to kill people in a war situation. How does this affect them in the afterlife, what changes etc.

just wondering what your views were on the subject. Thanks for reading,

Ryan

Those who claim we go round here many times might say that we have each and all done a stint as soldiers or something equivalent.

If you are wondering about karma you have to wonder where the folks who are sending the folks over there are in their development.

Do you suppose Patton and Ceasar are still organizing battles in some Hollow Hell?

I'm more interested to hear the tales of the unusual that seem to come out of war experiences. David Morehouse, I think, wrote about some weird stuff in the Gulf War. Wonder who will be writing them for Iraq. And don't people still claim to see ghosts at Shiloh?

I don't personally know anyone who died in a war, but I did read something not long ago about a guy in the army who was serving in Iraq.  He was badly injured and said he left his body and was greeted by his grandparents who had died not long before.  They told him it wasn't his time and suddenly he was back in his body and was feeling all the pain from his injury.  He said the experience changed his life. 

Alysia's suggestion is excellent and a good read.

I don't think there is an easy answer to your question and what you accept as an answer depends on the kind of information you want to accept as evidence...or possible evidence.

On a whim I went looking for ghosts of the Civil War. Even noe many people have a fascination with that era. Why?

I found this website

http://hauntedfieldsofglory.com/gallery/gallerymenu.html

which lead me to read a review of the book

Someone Else's Yesterday: The Confederate General and Connecticut Yankee, a Past Life Revealed
by Jeffrey J. Keene

which you can find at Amazon

What do you think of this sort of thing? I am interested in the Keene book, which I have not read, because of the research he did to verify, but I think accepting the book will hinge on whether or not I accept his "testimony" about what he is experiencing. We aren't tp a point where we can culturally prove this stuff; but there is alot of individual personal validation to look at.

I don't know if I think there is some set of events we all have to experience to attain spiritual growth, but perhaps we can learn something even from the lousy ones. maybe no experience is wasted. And then, if we do fall  into a situation where we experience war, it may be that we have to come back and experience more to resolve the problems we encounter.

Have you read much about this stuff? There are many stories out there...

Hi Ryan-

There seems to be more than one reason to be in military service. One approach is to go fight someone, doubtless leading to the same thing that attitude would acquire elsewhere, a chance to improve during the next interlife interval,

Another approach is that "Uh oh, I've been drafted."  In which case we do what we are told, and that is all that we can do. A truly saintly soul might try to sign up as a medic, ambulance driver, rescue chopper pilot etc, but there is no personal choice involved. Such people suffer their duties just as would slaves, and it is their masters who bear the karma.

There is also the idea that someone has to be the cop, because we have plenty of robbers in the world. To join the military in order to increase the peace by using whatever force is needed seem to me to be a worthy goal. In fact there are several Hindu saints who were military men. (This is an exceptionally pacifist religion.) The judgement is like the way we judge the cop who gives you a speeding ticket, in the long run he is risking his life to do good. Maybe he gets to find better ways in the future.

To my mind the issue is attitude, not what is done. We kill creatures to eat because we must, not because we are sadistic. Those wh are more sensitive point out that Big Macs don't grow on trees, and become vegetarians. But that doesn't make carnivores sinners.

Personally, I think it's a pity that we have to have armies. But I'd rather be protected than to face an invasion without one. On the other hand, I take a dim view of starting wars when there are any possible alternatives, no matter how slight. It seems that many Europeans who suffered greately in WW II take a similar view. On the other hand, if we didn't have armies and conquerors, what would brand new souls do?

d

i was just wondering because i'm in the TA (teritorial army). I've been going for half a year now, passing out of recruits stages soon.

I was in army cadets (youth group) and enjoyed it and so carried on. I don't want to do it full time however.

The reason i signed up is because i just love doing it, working together, out in all weathers, running about, getting wet, dirty, fed up, lol, doesn't sound that good but it is something to get away from the hassels of life and be with some good mates who, and we do, have a great laugh together. I don't mind being sent to war and killing someone...well i just dont really think about it.

That was my concern if i get sent away which could possibly next year depending how things go...what would happen with karma etc, does it mean i have to suffer pain in my next life because of this?

just intrigued as well, how does invlved in the military enhance spiritual growth?

Thanx for all the feedback everyone. Ryan

I saw this thread and decided this would be a good first post.

I have spent several years in the American military, including the US Marine Corps Infantry, US Army Airborne, and lately in the National Guard (a reserve component of the US Army). I am also a veteran of Iraq.

A few things to point out (this may get heavy; that's because of the nature of what I am discussing):

In our all-volunteer military, most join because they need a job. Most come from economically disadvanted backgrounds.

The suffering of war isn't limited to those that occur in theater. Divorce, suicide, and other problems run rampant among those who have returned from Iraq.
I am almost through a divorce myself after twelve years of marraige and five children. It's hasn't been a pretty one, either.

Many of my friends are going through the same. At least two in my unit alone have attempted suicide. These are not young people.

All of us have to live with the knowledge that some of our friends and others we were associated with over there are dead or mangled for life. More are on the way and we may, problably, will have to go there again.

The children. This may surprise some but it's the children over there and what they have to go through that causes a lot of the negative feelings for the war for many of us who been around them. Bullets and high explosives don't discriminate.

The problems actually start BEFORE going. I turned down a job I just had accepted making a lot more than what I make now, because I got notified of my deploymnet two days after accepting it, the notification being all of one month. I had to drop two college classes I was in and am now trying to get the school to forgive a $1500US bill so I can resume my studies. Minor, yes, but that was just the start.

I spent two hours talking to a friend in an aisle at Walmart who was ready to flip out on his boss, and who wants to go back to Iraq because he can't adjust. This sort of thing is not at all unusual.

These decriptions don't even come close to describing the depth of suffering undergone by some of our vets after returning home.  Behind closed doors in the middle of the night are those who are wailing and trying to crawl into the floor, asking in agony the age-old question: "Why me?" Most of these people didn't kill anyone. Most of the rest were protecting themselves or doing the job they swore an oath do do because they needed a job. They are not stone-cold killers who think war is fun.

Our mangled suffer in silence, largely forgotten by the public. Their suffering is perhaps the greatest, having to deal with same as the others who returned in addition to being disabled for life. The dead are no longer suffering, but their children, spouses, and other family members are.

Statistically (apparently), about ten percent of war veterans actually enjoy killing. I suspect that at least most of that ten percent are psychopathic. I am not a psychologist, so I won't go any further with this.

On the positve side, for me anyway, is I now have the time to explore afterlife issues. I am now more sensitive to paranormal experiences. I sense things that I previously could not (dead people, energies). I communicate with my guardian now. I have a girlfriend who can do the same. I am now more concerned about lucidity and clarity in my thought. My ambition now is to go the TMI and start their programs, something I had to put off when dealing with a spouse, five kids, working full time, and going to university at night. My spiritual growth and knowlege has been accelerating. I don't know that that is true for everyone who has come back.

BTW, please do not ever ask a vet how many people he or she killed. You would not believe how many people think that question is ok to ask.

All the belief that things happen for a reason, that our dead are really, problably ok, and that we chose these experiences doesn't really take much away from the pain. 

Thanks.