"Swedenborg learns from his astral travels that those of inferior develpment feel exposed and uncomfortable in the presence of those more spiritually advanced.  This discomfort apparently fuels a gravitation to a likeminded lower spirit plane. "

Not that I'm an expert in Biblical matters, but all this talk of "upper" and "lower" levels on the astral plane seems a little odd, although "like" may be attracted to "like."  I find myself with a picture of a social club in which the less well dressed feel, well, out of style.  Sounds awfully earthly to me...

respectfully, blink 

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Hi Don,

Indeed we have varying degrees, levels and qualities of consciousness in all dimensions. I would venture to say that the spheres/realms in the spirit-world have a definitive spatial quality....as consciousness is a wave-motion quality or resonance within a spatial dimension. Metaphysically speaking this is a wonderful subject which I have recently been exploring.....which covers the minds relationship and presence within space......this space having dimension....in metaphysical and matter-ial reality. I know that can open up other avenues....but some food for thought.

There does definitely appear to be spatial parameters between spheres/realms in the spirit-world....and environments correlate to the spiritual vibration of the inhabitants therein. In the Spirit.....there is less of a barrier to what one is like within and his environment.....as both resonate at the same frequency. This shows that Infinite Intelligence and universal laws govern the Universe(s) and this supports the theory of the souls eternal progression thru lawful succession.

paul

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Good insights.  Will we create whole new universes, as you suggest?  Maybe eventually each one of us will be like the god of a new universe, or something like that.  Who knows.  My own theory is that we are being prepared for ruling over planets and creating new life and civilizations on them, just like was already done on earth by advanced extraterrestrials who were doing God's work, and were in fact generally regarded as gods by ancient peoples.  One day, we humans will be the extraterrestrial "Elohim" (gods) of some other planets, helping along the local population of primitive intelligent creatures to achieve spiritual and material advancement, just like we were helped while on earth.  It's all part of a process.  For every planet with intelligent life that is evolving, there is the parent/teacher species and the child/student species, metaphorically speaking.  Humanity right now is getting close to graduation.  The industrial age of rapid advancement during the last few hundred years was like our adolescence, a turbulent time of change with its attendant problems.  My own suspicion is that within the next 100 years, humanity will go through a purging apocalypse and hopefully graduate into maturity and be ready for work in the larger universe.  An important point is that beyond our current level of technological advancement, the spiritual and material begin to merge.  We already see the beginning of this with relativity and quantum mechanics, which predict that certain things are possible which do not make any sense except in the context of a larger reality (e.g. the bending of time, instant communication by particles across vast distances, superstring theory with 11 dimensions, etc.).  We see that throughout history and today, there are extraterrestrial beings involving themselves in the affairs of earth, which have often been called gods, angels and demons in the past.  Their level of development is such that they have access to both the physical and spiriual simultaneously, because to them, they are one; there is no distinction anymore at their level.  That's why UFOs can do things like appear and disappear into higher dimensions, move in ways that seem to defy the laws of physics, cause local disturbances in the flow of time, and aliens have been reported to induce OBEs by using technology to draw the spirit out of the body.  I also believe, BTW, that not all of the higher beings influencing this planet are benevolent.  Some are, but some are not.  More highly advanced and powerful beings are not necessarily morally superior to us.

I guess that's enough of my spouting my strange ideas that are only tangentially related to this thread.  I once wrote a philosophical book about this stuff when I was 16 years old; never published it though.  Just recently I found my old manuscript and started reading it again, so these ideas are fresh in my mind.  Don, I find it very interesting that you find evidence within Christianity for some of the things I have instinctively believed for years, such as the idea that advanced humanlike beings were commissioned by God to work in the process of creating humans on earth and were the Elohim, plural.  I thought I might be the only Christian who believes this.

Freebird

(4) WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HEAVEN?

We find a hint of Heaven's purpose in Romans 11:36: "For  from Him and through Him and back to Him are all things."  This cyclical vision of creation already hints that damnation need not be the final state of those in Hell who have not opted for the annihilation option.  [More on that in my treatment of questions (5)-(7).]  The most fascinating biblical expression of Heaven's purpose can be found in 2 Peter 1:4: "He [God] has given us His very great and precious promises, so that through Him YOU MAY PARTICIPATE IN THE DIVINE NATURE."  Here Peter expresses the Bible's most glorious prospect for humanity.  Heaven is not an end in itself; it is merely a vehicle to help us achieve a profound union with God, a union which expands God's horizons in ways we cannot fathom.  Our mission is to help an already perfect God enrich and upgrade His experienc e and essence in ways that please Him {Her/ It).  

Peter's claim expresses much more than the traditional doctrine that we are created in God's image.  It expresses an idea very similar to the claim of certain astral adepts that we are all part of God.  When skeptics take offense at Jesus' claim to be God's Son, He responds that in a profound sense all humans are gods (John 10:33-36; citing Psalm 82:6).  But the narcissistic ego must be gradually suppressed and humble submission to God's will is required.  That submission should include love, adoration, and worship.  Our full realization of union with God must (from our time-bound perspective) await the completion of our long postmortem journey.  

In His human manifestation, Jesus has "emptied" Himself of His divine prerogatives (Philippians 2:6), and so, even He can temporarily distinguish Himself from God (Mark 10:18).  The Bible assumes the preexistence of the soul, but not reincarnation (e.g. John 9:1-2; Jeremiah 1:5; Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20).  Unlike us, Christ has no human preexistent state; rather, He preexists as God or rather "the Word" {Greek: "Logos"), i. e. the rational self-expression of God as opposed to God in His unknowability.  After His resurrection, Christ is restored to His full divine nature and prerogatives (Philippians 2:9-11), but now His humanity becomes absorbed into His divinity.  His atoning death and resurrection make possible our ultimate participation in the divine nature as well.  In that state, we ultimately share  jurisdiction over the cosmos (1 Corinthians 6:2) and just may be included in the heavenly throng poetically addressed at creation:  "LET US make humanity in OUR image (Genesis 1:27)."

These truths are poetically expressed by "Jesus and the angels" during Howard Storm's NDE:

"The universe exists because it is the activity of God and the heavenly multitude.  It was explained to me that it is like a vast orchestra and God is the conductor.  Each individual is an instrument with unique qualities.  Each soul contributes in their unique way to the symphony of creation.  There is no past or future in the symphony, only present.  The universe and all that is in it is the music.  We are the songs sung by heaven.  Outside of the symphony of life there is no time, space, matter, or energy. . .OUR ULTIMATE DESTINY IS TO PARTICIPATE WITH GOD IN CREATION.  The instrument we play is our being perfectly connected to God by the bond of love.  We know our part in the symphony because we have understood who we are and contribute our experience, our whole being, our spirit into the process (57)."

Don

Alysia,

You have been direct with me; so I will be direct with you.  I'm not ignoring your prior posts on this thread; I'm just waiting until I develop more of my 8-point agenda so I can respond more appropriately.  You are wrong in your claim  that "adoration  is associated with blind faith of sheep."  According to Webster, "adoration" just means "great love, devotion, and respect" and "submission" just means "the act of submitting, yielding, or surrendering."  You presume to lecture me on the need to change "submission" to "surrender" and "adoration and worship"" to "vigilance and respect", etc.  And yet, you describe your imagined past life as a Christian missionary as one of "WARPING the minds of innocent natives."  I'm amazed at how the narcissism of some New Agers blinds them to such incongruities.  By the way, "narcissism" means "excessive interest in one's own opinions, comfort, importance, abilities, image, etc." 

JD Howes shared his personal testimony in a warm, self-deprecating way, and yet, New Agers just intensified their ad hominem assaults on him, all the while continuing to nourish the illusion that they are really loving people.   One New Ager even shrieked her hatred of him in huge read lietters, and now, incongruously shrieks her Christlike image in the same huge letters.  To judge by my private messages, all this incongruity has caused much bemusement.      

To use New Age lingo, this site operates at a very dense vibrational level that bodes ill for the ultimate BST destiny of several of its members.   I only remain on this site for the sake of some here who still demonstrate they are housebroken.  But after I finish this thread, I expect to leave indefinitely--or until some new well-meaning Christian unwittingly falls into this hornet's nest.

Don

P.S. On Freebird's thread, you mischaracterized his "meditation imagery" as sharing some of his past lives.  Freebird insists, "I take no position on the issue of reincarnation."  Your own alleged past lives reaffirm my conviction that such recall is illusory.  Most of your "lives" are far too melodramatic to be credible, melodramatic in a way that betrays an overactive imagination.   What takes the cake is your "life" as a woman who met and Jesus and was healed by Him.  In Boston, I encountered a study on 500 past life regressions that produced several Napoleans and other famous people or people who met the very famous.   But I guess Robert Monroe set the standard for credibility when he alleged a past life as a pilot dodging spears from cavemen.    

from Don:
You have been direct with me; so I will be direct with you.  I'm not ignoring your prior posts on this thread; I'm just waiting until I develop more of my 8-point agenda so I can respond more appropriately.
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oh. ok. I forgot about there was an agenda to follow. I think the agenda is what I actually object to. I don't really want to interrupt what I suspect now is a great work in progress of a soul. we're all doing that in our own way.
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JD Howes shared his personal testimony in a warm, self-deprecating way
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we are all doing a testimony, in our own way. JD has his feisty side you know. lets not set up two camps necessarily. apparently, he can hold his own and is enjoying it.
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and yet, New Agers just intensified their ad hominem assaults on him, all the while continuing to nourish the illusion that they are really loving people.   One New Ager even shrieked her hatred of him in huge read lietters, and now, incongruously shrieks her Christlike image in the same huge letters.  To judge by my private messages, all this incongruity has caused much bemusement.      
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just a word about Mairlyn shrieking. we cannot know what a person's life has been and why they choose certain affirmations. If you had lived through what she did, you might want to yell a bit yourself. she is not shrieking hatred to my view, she is choosing for herself what she wants to experience...love. granted, she's emotional about it but I see it took courage to post it.  I see we are all free here to express ourselves as you are also.
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To use New Age lingo, this site operates at a very dense vibrational level
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correction; the world operates at a dense vibrational level.
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that bodes ill for the ultimate BST destiny of several of its members.
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what is this; a prediction for us? everything is a belief system, even ruling over 5 or 10 cities as a being of light is a belief system. thats what this world is, and that's what the next one is. paradise is a belief system. resthome is one to. show me something that's not a belief system.
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  I only remain on this site for the sake of some here who still demonstrate they are housebroken.  But after I finish this thread, I expect to leave indefinitely--or until some new well-meaning Christian unwittingly falls into this hornet's nest.
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I think it was meant to be what it is. you should continue my opinion. its starting to get interesting and may lead to some really good discussion, the thing I discovered just now about my real feelings here is that when u present such an extensive agenda it sort of excludes others to try and get a word in and express their own selves. but that's my problem and I see I'm not having difficulty right now getting a word in, and I've changed my mind since yesterday that I need to post here as I think this is totally your own room due to those 8 points of reference your speaking about. it sounds like an entire thesis project of long duration and it's important to you to get it all posted without so many interruptions. I see that now.
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P.S. On Freebird's thread, you mischaracterized his "meditation imagery" as sharing some of his past lives.  Freebird insists, "I take no position on the issue of reincarnation."
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you were supposed to read my post. it was planned that way that you would. you and I have been debating for more than a year now "out there."
yes, that thread is not finished so we can debate over there for about a 100 years the issue of reincarnation. if you subscribe to we are all one vast being fragmented into the many, having many selves is really no problem. but I don't think u subscribe to "we are all God" developing and experiencing here as beings who love to find each other within each other.
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 Your own alleged past lives reaffirm my conviction that such recall is illusory.  Most of your "lives" are far too melodramatic to be credible, melodramatic in a way that betrays an overactive imagination.
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see, we differ here about what the imagination is exactly. check out what Einstien said: "imagination is more important than knowledge". doesn't that make you think about yourself as being a bunch of electrons and nuerons hitting on each other, all those firing pins organized into a mass low vibratory rate of flesh, and this little mass calls itself "I am." it's individuation of light particles solely for self expression. a subsequent merge back into the light and u look back on your life saying wow, I really thought I was in the movie for real this time. and that was the whole purpose, to see if you could possibly remember who you were. it's going to be easier to remember soon. your use of the word melodramatic is interesting as I thought they were rather drab lives. not one of them was remotely famous, but all taught me something worthwhile and I take pleasure in that.
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  What takes the cake is your "life" as a woman who met and Jesus and was healed by Him.
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my own audacity scares me too. may I take the cake? please? I see your point; why should Jesus care about this one single life, this one little fragment enough to heal me or make me feel that kind of PUL? fact is, Jesus is rather impartial. he heals one and all, will come to any who can concieve and picture him. he's as real now as he was then and I believe he would not be very pleased to see your misunderstanding that he came here to offer healing to  even the ones who were being stoned for their sins or shall we say miscalculated deeds..
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 In Boston, I encountered a study on 500 past life regressions that produced several Napoleans and other famous people or people who met the very famous.
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well, we don't really know do we? I mean somebody had to have been Napolean. maybe it makes them feel good, that they can be somebody. maybe it helps them with their self image, so what does it hurt? my own mother thinks she was a queen somewhere. she probably was, as hard as she is to get along with. you simply can't dismiss the entire idea because a few people are not believable to your pov.
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  But I guess Robert Monroe set the standard for credibility when he alleged a past life as a pilot dodging spears from cavemen.
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actually I can see this as a quantum leap into another time dimension because time is an illusion as being linear. makes sense to me.  people can walk right into another movie dimension, because the mind itself is like a piece of film with it's projections. or the brain is the film and the mind projects its impressions on the film as symbols.
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perhaps tactfulness is not one of your best features. I finally can accept that. carry on and may you find what you seach for. your own proof. we all will.  we can still practice open minded discussion without being brutal with our opinions just so to see yourself being amused by another's quandary.  as concerning DP: The missionary who dunked the natives heads under the water to make sure they could get into heaven, what happened there was the natives taught DP about love. they were simple beautiful people and had a direct back door into heaven. they didn't need to be baptised, but I sure needed to know to understand their beauty, so they let me enter their kingdom.

Btw, DP my guide, loves talking with you, of course he would. DP stands for dead preacher. Laughing Rain just goes along with him but she would rather be in other rooms, nothing personal meant, she's learning things from a different viewing point than religion. I am not schizophrenic, if that's what ur thinking. lol.
take care Don, I don't mean to agitate you, but I guess some of that happens anyway while we are expressing ourselves too passionately.

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You know Alysia, I have not heard the word "tolerance" for many years.  Tolerance means to recognize and respect others beliefs and practices, without necessarily agreeing with them.  How appropriate and needed that is especially on this forum lately.

Not one of us is always tolerant of other people's beliefs, but certainly we all can strive to be mature enough to at least show respect for the beliefs of others and treat them with patient kindness and gentleness. 

Thank you Alysia for bringing this up.  I'm always learning something from everyone.

Much love, Kathy

The biblical perspective of the preceding post is consistent with the explanation of "Jesus and the angels" to Howard Storm during his NDE: e.g.

"Question: Which is the best religion?  I was expecting them to answer with something like Methodist or Presbyterian or Catholic, or some other denomination.  They answered, `The religion that brings you closest to God (73).'"

"Question: I asked Jesus: `Has he been to another world besides my world?'  He said he had been to every world in every time and space.  He said he had brought the revelation of God to all intelligent beings.  Some beings had been as stubborn as we were to accept him, and many more worlds had gladly accepted him.  He said he would come back to our world in good time when we were ready to accept him (76)."

Obviously, Christ assumes different identities and reveals Himself through a variety of symbols and belief systems both in this and other worlds:

"The Christ reaches to all people everywhere in all time, space, heaven, and hell (Storm, 67)." 

The Bible teaches that God communicates to pagans from different cultures through their own symbols and belief systems (e.g. Exodus 3:14; Amos 9:7).  It is only in this more expansive sense that Jesus' more traditional and exclusivist statements to Storm can be understood: e.g.

"In our progression toward God we will meet the Divine Activity of God, who is known to Christians as Jesus Christ.  People who were not Christians must know Christ as well.  No one approaches God who does not know the mediator of God (55)." 

"No one will go to God except through the atonement of Christ, the love of Christ, and the way of Christ...[67).

I hope that when you compare my answer to question (5) with Jesus' NDE answers to Howard Storm, you will find both sources of revelation compatible.

Don