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Holographic Universe (Read 13130 times)
Raphael
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Holographic Universe
Apr 22nd, 2005 at 1:17pm
 
I will have to buy the book to read it this summer but I've just found a cute little description of the theory here : http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

The universe would be much weirder than we think lol

Personally I think the theory makes sense. It probably isn't the true answer but I bet it's the first step on the right path.

What do you think ?
Grin
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Crying Raven
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #1 - Apr 22nd, 2005 at 10:18pm
 
Whoa

That took my brain a moment to digest the implications of this.  In fact I don't even know where to begin to comment.  I need some more time to think about his.

Thanks for sharing this, this is absolutely fascinating.

Jenn
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alysia
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #2 - Apr 22nd, 2005 at 10:31pm
 
http://www.skyhero.com/

authors name is Bill Cozzolino and he talks about holographics for the layman, although had to read his book 3 times to get a feel for it, but he does mention a lot of the same things that your site does. what I like about holographics is the connected feeling, that everything is connected, every thought to another, you can just follow trails of thought forever and ever and you're always connected.
cheers, alysia...
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Brendan
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #3 - Apr 22nd, 2005 at 11:49pm
 
Fascinating possibilities! Smiley
It would mean, quite possibly, that "God
is all of us, and each of us (ultimately) is our own
God."
I could live with that. I can forget about getting my
brain wrapped around it though...
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #4 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 11:30am
 
Aside from coming from an erudite origin in pre-historic India, this is also an old idea in physics, called "wave mechanics". Prince Louis de Broglie, drawing on Max Planck's discovery the energy only occurs in discrete quons,  proposed that everything could be expressed as a quantum wave, like bits of matter or electrons or whatever. Quantum mechanics use the idea to predict convergences of propeties.

Imagine a space of infinite dimensions, but no particular ordering of them so that all possible viewpoints might occur. Add a disturbance that creates an expanding wave. Allow this wave to be defined by having a nominal presence, but simply a one-quon magnitude. In other words, it's just a presence, not a bigness. (EX: Your name is a presence, not a magnitude. "Green" is a nominal presence, but not a magnitude. Magnitude arises when we compare two different greens etc.)

Change your perspective, and you can see this is any of a collection of several waves. By holding this perspective you can see those waves interacting (at least to that viewpoint), and the interaction products further interact and so on. Eventually you get enough ways of relating one wave to another that there exist secondary viewpoints within your initial field of perspective from which the interactions of the waves look exactly like the interactions of physical objects.  The properties of one interact with the properties of another just like the properties of rocks and fireplugs. It makes a fun puzzle in logic to work this out in symbolic form.
d

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Mr_Satan
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #5 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 11:42am
 
Dave

In your explanation (with which i tend to agree), you start out w one wave, then have them multiply.  Complexity continues to grow, perhaps doubling, perhaps multiplying by the square, perhaps by the cube.  Anyways, while that would likely not lead to chaos, it is the reverse of some theologies that have creation starting from chaos, working towards order.  It's interesting.

MS
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alysia
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #6 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 11:58am
 
working from what Dave said, Cozzolino describes states of awareness as not levels of high or low one stacked on top of the other, instead he illustrates a spider web and the I Am consciousness being in the center of the web and the being always in the center as the layered web is in a circle, moving within these layers ( he lists 7 for simplicity) you somehow always remain still in the center while partaking of each and every level suggesting everything we need is right in the same location where you live do to overlapping and interpenetrating fields of energy. reminds me of a strand of DNA with the spiraling effect.
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Raphael
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #7 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 2:42pm
 
Dave could you explain the theory wit other words ?

quons and quantic waves and all those things are not known to me... My branch is psychology  Undecided

Thanks
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jkeyes
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 4:39pm
 
Raphael,

That article is terrific, thanks!

Also I noticed the logo at the bottom of your posts and every time I saw it, it reminded me of the last page of one of my earlier studies Born to Win in 1971. The poem by e. e. cummings:  To be nobody-but-yoursef in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else--means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. It's one of my favorites.

Thanks again, I'm going to pass it on. Jean
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Lights of Love
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 6:02pm
 
Thanks Raphael!

The holographic image is something that has helped me to have more understanding over the years and this article seems to explain some implications that I have often wondered about.

Alysia, I like your take on this concept, too.  What Cozzolino says seems to fit nicely into this model and also in going from what Dave mentioned. 

And Brendan... yes... that's my take too, that we are all God... in that each of us is a piece of the whole and the whole all at the same time.

Thanks again, Raphael.

Love and peace,
Kathy 

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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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Glen
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #10 - Apr 23rd, 2005 at 9:34pm
 
Hi Raphael,

I assume when you said you'll have to get the book that you were referring to Michael Talbot's book, The Holographic Universe. I've still not read it yet, but I recently lent my copy to my chiropractor who said it was definitely worth reading.

Why do you say "It probably isn't the true answer"? I see no reason why it can't be. It's just that people don't want to believe that we're so responsible for creating our own realities.

Another good book you might want to read is Dr. Amit Goswami's The Self-Aware Universe. You may have seen him (briefly) in the film, What the Bleep Do We Know.

Cheers,
Glen
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Raphael
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #11 - Apr 24th, 2005 at 6:38am
 
Yup I was referring to Michael Talbot's book  Grin

I say it's probably not the true answer because we still don't understand our universe that much. The truth might be even more strange.

I doubt humans could currently make a model of the universe that would be 100% accurate.

I think it's important to be open to other possibilities.
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Glen
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #12 - Apr 24th, 2005 at 1:03pm
 
Quote:
I doubt humans could currently make a model of the universe that would be 100% accurate.
Hi Raphael,

That one sentence raises two issues.

First, when you talk about humans making a model of the universe I expect you're talking about the limited capabilities of our conscious minds. We have little idea of what our unconscious  or subconscious minds can do, however, so we ought not believe that we know what our limitations really are. If fact, it could turn out to be true that  at our most innermost level of consciousness we help to create the reality we're so familiar with, in which case our individual models of the universe would be the same as the universe that's actually encountered.

That brings up the second question: Is reality something that exists on its own, without our being involved in its creation somehow? That's what they call a mind-independant reality (MIR) or "reality as it is" in philosophy circles.

I think it eventually becomes clear to us that the idea of a holographic universe challenges us to make a rather significant paradigm shift. It's not something that can be made to fit within the confines of conventional thinking.

Cheers,
Glen
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #13 - Apr 24th, 2005 at 2:16pm
 
Hi Glen, Raphael & other Esteemed Friends-
I was extrpolating from physics, but the basic model is simple. "Everything is part of everything else."  Further, "The only way that anything is defined is with respect to everything else. "

You can start this process from nothingness if you are willing to accept two general contingencies, that there is a space in which prcessual time occurs, and that the space is also additive. (We simply have no access to other spaces.) For a wave model, the initial wave can be as simple as the observation. "There might be time, or might not." (The contingencies might be universal, or not.)   

By applying Fourier analysis we now can decompose that statement into an infinite series of elements that add up to saying the same thing. (EX: We can decompose "green" into "blue plus yellow", or into "black minus orange plus yellow: etc.)  After that, it's just a matter of how many ways we need the subordinate Fourier elements to interact in order to create a waveform in which the potentialities for a wave that represents a rock or a fireplug to occur are the same as the potentialities for a rock or fireplug to occur in everyday experience. (It's an astronomical improbability, but we have all of infinity and eternity to do it.)

As Glen pointed out, we do not know the potentialities of either the nature of the Creator nor the Creation. But we do know that God plays fair. As Einstein put it, " The Herr Gott may be obscure, but he isn't just plain mean." More to the point, we live in a world in which illogical things cancel themselves out, and only logical things remain. (That's the process we call "karma".)

Given a logical universe, we can say with absolute certainty that the Universe is like a Sewer Pipe. What you get out of it depends upon what you put into it. (Quoted from some earthy philosopher, but whom I forget.)

The philosopher-psychologist William James had a concept of thought called the "constellar model". He said that everything we know is known only with respect to other things we know, of which there are only a few items that we actually can refer to by experience of directly grounded actions and obvservations in the physical world. This was picked up by semanticists Benjamin Whorf and Edward Sapir who suggested that we can only think of those things for which we have internal symbolic representations.  In other word, we can only think thoughts composed of other thoughts. (This has been tested and found valid. It is the basis of Jean Piaget's notion of "Learning Readiness.)

This sounds like a limitation, but actually, what we get is an iterated combinatoric  expansion. (Also called an iterated complexion, or an iterated power set.)  For example, I might wake up and start with, "I am", and "the rest of the universe is a manifestation of God". Those two ideas can be combined to give me, "I am + God's universe", and we also keep the beginners, "I am", and "God is manifested". Now if we put these three ideas together, we get seven resulting ideas. (The repetition of any idea carries history by which it is differentiated from its first expression.) If you assemble seven ideas in every possible combination, you get 127 results. The next assembly of all possible combinations gives 2^127 -1, or roughly 1.7 x 10E38 (that's about the same as the number of protons, in a star.) The next iteration of the complexion gives so many results that the number cannot be written out within the volume of the known universe, even if the digits were as small as Planck intervals. (10E-35 m)

In other words, we have the capability to jump, in only five short steps, to concepts lying well outside the limits of the known universe. The only limits to us are ourselves.

Looking a bit more into Cosmic potentialities, we can assume that God and Divine Creativity has been around for more than the 14 billion years of the universe. I'd suggest infinite presence in beginningless time. So there is an unbounded potentiality into which we can go.

The problem with most of us is that we are fearful of abandoning our familiar "comfort zone" to go there. As an example, remember Bruces' tale of the tank commander, driving eternally across some psychic desert in order to retain his sense of purpose and self definitions? He held onto his comfort zone, because getting blown up was not an acceptable idea. Bruce gently pried him loose and gave him a better option, and off they went into the Light.

A more pithy example, back in the 1960 era, when LSD was first introduced (and still legal) people discovered that unless they were willing to abandon their ideas of who and what they were, and instead accept a more transcendent experience in a non-material reality, they would freak out and become psychotic. This was especially true uf they doubted their own validity, as they would go into a Hell state (BST) in order to atone for their errors. The same thing still happens to lots of poeple who brood and ruminate over problems, because the reality of life no longer fits their assumptions of what it should be. So they ultimately wind up with head shrinkers like me.

I guess that the bottom line is that we live in a holomorphic system in which all we really need to do is to be good spirited, aware, loving, and willing to fix what we break. If we do that, we see ourselves reflected. It's up to us to do lots of stuff, and hold on for the ride that follows.

dave
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Raphael
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Re: Holographic Universe
Reply #14 - Apr 24th, 2005 at 3:54pm
 
So if I understood everything...

1) The whole could be separated by a fourrier analysis into infinite possibilities ?
And thus certain combinations of such wavelenths would result in the different "things" that compose our universe ?

2) I didn't quite understod your "Constellar model" explanation. From what I understoof, the sum of the whole equals more than the whole.  ???
If you have 2 concepts and from these 2 you make many sub-concepts, they can't make you create new concepts since this would mean the parts equals more than the whole  Undecided
UNLESS I completely misunderstood  Embarrassed

Thanks for your reply btw
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