Whoa

That took my brain a moment to digest the implications of this.  In fact I don't even know where to begin to comment.  I need some more time to think about his.

Thanks for sharing this, this is absolutely fascinating.

Jenn

Fascinating possibilities!
It would mean, quite possibly, that "God
is all of us, and each of us (ultimately) is our own
God."
I could live with that. I can forget about getting my
brain wrapped around it though...

Dave

In your explanation (with which i tend to agree), you start out w one wave, then have them multiply.  Complexity continues to grow, perhaps doubling, perhaps multiplying by the square, perhaps by the cube.  Anyways, while that would likely not lead to chaos, it is the reverse of some theologies that have creation starting from chaos, working towards order.  It's interesting.

MS

Dave could you explain the theory wit other words ?

quons and quantic waves and all those things are not known to me... My branch is psychology 

Thanks

Thanks Raphael!

The holographic image is something that has helped me to have more understanding over the years and this article seems to explain some implications that I have often wondered about.

Alysia, I like your take on this concept, too.  What Cozzolino says seems to fit nicely into this model and also in going from what Dave mentioned. 

And Brendan... yes... that's my take too, that we are all God... in that each of us is a piece of the whole and the whole all at the same time.

Thanks again, Raphael.

Love and peace,
Kathy 

Yup I was referring to Michael Talbot's book 

I say it's probably not the true answer because we still don't understand our universe that much. The truth might be even more strange.

I doubt humans could currently make a model of the universe that would be 100% accurate.

I think it's important to be open to other possibilities.

Hi Glen, Raphael & other Esteemed Friends-
I was extrpolating from physics, but the basic model is simple. "Everything is part of everything else."  Further, "The only way that anything is defined is with respect to everything else. "

You can start this process from nothingness if you are willing to accept two general contingencies, that there is a space in which prcessual time occurs, and that the space is also additive. (We simply have no access to other spaces.) For a wave model, the initial wave can be as simple as the observation. "There might be time, or might not." (The contingencies might be universal, or not.)   

By applying Fourier analysis we now can decompose that statement into an infinite series of elements that add up to saying the same thing. (EX: We can decompose "green" into "blue plus yellow", or into "black minus orange plus yellow: etc.)  After that, it's just a matter of how many ways we need the subordinate Fourier elements to interact in order to create a waveform in which the potentialities for a wave that represents a rock or a fireplug to occur are the same as the potentialities for a rock or fireplug to occur in everyday experience. (It's an astronomical improbability, but we have all of infinity and eternity to do it.)

As Glen pointed out, we do not know the potentialities of either the nature of the Creator nor the Creation. But we do know that God plays fair. As Einstein put it, " The Herr Gott may be obscure, but he isn't just plain mean." More to the point, we live in a world in which illogical things cancel themselves out, and only logical things remain. (That's the process we call "karma".)

Given a logical universe, we can say with absolute certainty that the Universe is like a Sewer Pipe. What you get out of it depends upon what you put into it. (Quoted from some earthy philosopher, but whom I forget.)

The philosopher-psychologist William James had a concept of thought called the "constellar model". He said that everything we know is known only with respect to other things we know, of which there are only a few items that we actually can refer to by experience of directly grounded actions and obvservations in the physical world. This was picked up by semanticists Benjamin Whorf and Edward Sapir who suggested that we can only think of those things for which we have internal symbolic representations.  In other word, we can only think thoughts composed of other thoughts. (This has been tested and found valid. It is the basis of Jean Piaget's notion of "Learning Readiness.)

This sounds like a limitation, but actually, what we get is an iterated combinatoric  expansion. (Also called an iterated complexion, or an iterated power set.)  For example, I might wake up and start with, "I am", and "the rest of the universe is a manifestation of God". Those two ideas can be combined to give me, "I am + God's universe", and we also keep the beginners, "I am", and "God is manifested". Now if we put these three ideas together, we get seven resulting ideas. (The repetition of any idea carries history by which it is differentiated from its first expression.) If you assemble seven ideas in every possible combination, you get 127 results. The next assembly of all possible combinations gives 2^127 -1, or roughly 1.7 x 10E38 (that's about the same as the number of protons, in a star.) The next iteration of the complexion gives so many results that the number cannot be written out within the volume of the known universe, even if the digits were as small as Planck intervals. (10E-35 m)

In other words, we have the capability to jump, in only five short steps, to concepts lying well outside the limits of the known universe. The only limits to us are ourselves.

Looking a bit more into Cosmic potentialities, we can assume that God and Divine Creativity has been around for more than the 14 billion years of the universe. I'd suggest infinite presence in beginningless time. So there is an unbounded potentiality into which we can go.

The problem with most of us is that we are fearful of abandoning our familiar "comfort zone" to go there. As an example, remember Bruces' tale of the tank commander, driving eternally across some psychic desert in order to retain his sense of purpose and self definitions? He held onto his comfort zone, because getting blown up was not an acceptable idea. Bruce gently pried him loose and gave him a better option, and off they went into the Light.

A more pithy example, back in the 1960 era, when LSD was first introduced (and still legal) people discovered that unless they were willing to abandon their ideas of who and what they were, and instead accept a more transcendent experience in a non-material reality, they would freak out and become psychotic. This was especially true uf they doubted their own validity, as they would go into a Hell state (BST) in order to atone for their errors. The same thing still happens to lots of poeple who brood and ruminate over problems, because the reality of life no longer fits their assumptions of what it should be. So they ultimately wind up with head shrinkers like me.

I guess that the bottom line is that we live in a holomorphic system in which all we really need to do is to be good spirited, aware, loving, and willing to fix what we break. If we do that, we see ourselves reflected. It's up to us to do lots of stuff, and hold on for the ride that follows.

dave

hi Rapheal,everyone,

          heres another cutie for ya's,

http://www.hologram.net/theory/thrymenu.htm

  just to add to the topic 


regards

Merlyn

well heres me too with just my thoughts and feelings, so join the crowd of the common people. lol. I don't know which came first...the egg or the chicken?
and I don't know if the tree falling sound needs an ear to make it's sound if there is no ear around but I suspect there is sound regardless of the ear. lol.
____

how does it relate to the afterlife? fine question! been working on that meself. I suspect myself to be a clone of my higher self. in turn, this clone self spins off other selves, call them thought forms. a thought form can have a type of vitality. it's the creative stuff of the universe.
the best way I know to try and explain holographics is through looking at a photograph. we can now, by adjusting the focus of the lens placed upon a torn off corner of a photo film, reconstruct the entire photo from just the corner, that infers a pattern is there, a holographic pattern observant by focusing the lens a degree or so.
to illustrate this a little more, there is an art in forensics now, they take a skull and build a face around it by using mathematics and intuition and touch. they can then identify who the skull was by searching in the missing persons file.
the pattern that is there is part of the mystery of holographics. we could go on like this all night. lol.
good nite!

wait! sound is a sensory input...what about the animals and bugs being connected to the sound of the wind...and an entire eco system..and do animals percieve color? what is color? color is a vibrational energy too. is curious to think what an animal can percieve. they can hear and smell beyond human senses, I would think they know color. so I go with (a)
what is unseen and unheard still is existent.

and u don't have to answer this, but how can animals travel great distances finding their way home? when even when I have a map I have problems?

Hi Raphael-

Yeah - occasionally I'm astounded by those who really know a bunch. I just meditate and read an occasional book, but I've been doing it for close to 70 years.  You have a better start on it than I did.  It took me abpout 30 years (and a loving girl friend) to convince me that there was more than just a material world.

I picked a wave mechanics model because it was fun to fool with. No big deal.  First, let's look at what we're dealing with. It's just information, and the potentialities for information to relate to itself.  When it does this interaction in certain ways, the properties of the clusters of ideas relate to one another just exactly as do the clusters of "real world stuff" (whatever that might be).

The first point is that when two "physical objects" interact they get "used up". BUT when two ideas intreract, they do not get used up. Both of the beginners remain intact. As an example, think of a basket. Now think of a set of wheels. Now think of a couple of handles. You have (a) basket, (b) wheels, (c) handles, and also you have (Ta Da!) a pushcart. The pushcart is formed by the synergy of the ideas. The synergic result is always something more than you started with.

Next, look at the ways that arbitrary ideas interact. Two ideas A and B form a third C (that is, combined ideas idea AB=C), so we get A, B, and C. Now let's do it again. A, B and C go together to form a, B, C (these are the beginners) and also (ab, BC, AC, ABC. So, from two beginners we get three resultants. Let's canmge the labels and call them A, B, C, D, E, F, G. So, from three beginners we get seven resultants. From seven we get 127, and from 127 we get (2^7)-1 or roughly 1.7 x 10^38 (or do you prefer 1.7E38?) etc At this point, most math books will balk and say, "Proof is left to the Reader." It can be figured out on paper, at least in principle, but it's terribly messy.

Since this is an afterlife forum, look at the other places we find the same data. In ancient Egypt, about 5000 years ago, the philosophers recognized that some things were, and some were not. So they got the idea of polarity. In their terms, this was the start of the Cosmos. First there is the vastness of limitless voidness, so vast that it cannot be filled, but within which there is potentiality for anything to occur. Second, there is the specification of anything, such as this instant in spacetime. That is so miniute and specific that no matter how we try we can never dissect it. It is a point with no parts, and with no definition except that it is Here and Now. So we get Generality and Specificity as the beginners for the Cosmos. (Their names were actually Shu and Tefnet. The Budge translation tells us that the Ultimate Creator, Nebertchur, said that he brought forth Shu and Tefnut and in them created himself by grasping himself within his own hand.) Makes me think of a Mobius strip.

So from this initial pair, we get three principles of reality, variously named. These are process, structure and relationships. (Hindus call them the Three Gunas, or Primal Properties, rajas, tamas and sattva.) The soul of the deal must pass through a passage guarded by these three Guardians, and then it enters a space guarded by the Seven Arits, or qualifications of existence. (We know them as the seven fundamental properties of physical space: process, structure, logical relations, changing relations, changing structure, fixed patterns, and spacetime relativity.)

Then the soul enters the Hall of Maat, awaiting judgement. In this hall we find Osiris, who is the collection of all properties into the Ultimate Being. Then we also have all the ways that we can put together the seven Arits. We have 42 ways that we can do it by starting with with process, 42 ways with structure, and 42 ways with relationships. That gives 126 + Osiris, so we have the 127 outcome sets. (That means that the math is OK. It fits the topic.) However, since the three ways to view them are redundant, it is only necessary to deny sinning by actions, and the sins of relationships and structures are covered automatically.

This kind of thing leads off into technicalities of definitions. Maybe the Egyptians invented lawyers, eh? However, these ideas have been around for a long time, and have been useful. A far simpler approach is simply to be joyfully creative in process, be validly logical and aware in relationships, and lovingly kind and accepting in structure.

The idea of a Fourier analysis is simply that anything can be represented as the combination of other things, and from that we get a beginning. My personal favorite is a space in which there might be time. Then that means that it has a second instant, else time doesn't occur. Now we have two beginners and can build a universe. In fact, any dichotomy can be used.

dave

Me again - you can tell I'm an old fart. There's a lot of typos in that. My apologies.
d

I think Dave is a teacher actually. I think he even gets money for it..har! good on ya mate. its just amazing how little of each other can be seen on a forum post, we are so busy seeing what is a limited view in the end. insofar as holographics, my humble opinion is the nature of the topic itself is that it keep multiplying and extending itself and I'd like to keep it alive. especially like what Dave said in another post that the nature of karma is not punishment. has to do with no good nor bad operating here. tis my opinion about seeing evil, that in order to see evil I must first seek after it and find it in order to experience it firsthand, because only experience can tell the truth. as self creators I see no reason to create evil deeds to authenticate that evil is real. love, alysia

I like that experience and you describe it so vividly. I just wondered if that's how a dolphin feels? might be like your totem or something? cool. love, alysia

i think you may be right there alysia - a life totum reflecting my inner spirital nature  . I belive this came to me at that particular time because of the circumstances I was in. At the time I was studying to be a massage therapist when I had this kind of OBE (if thats what u call it) and my father was battling with cancer (sadly he has passed over january this year)  so there was definitly a healing message there. The second is that i share my birthday with the month of june (for anyone who doesn't know their horoscopes that makes me a cancerian with a watery element!).  I always remember as a child being in dreams where I could swim with my ahead above water without the use of armbands!! . Funnily enough alot of my dreams now are about water. I love the sea and I love swimming. Water to me represents the soul and the emotional self and the dolphin, with there  markered degree of sensitvity & awareness there also exists the ability to draw back from actually taking on the pain and suffering of those around them which I guess I do sometimes. Dolphins jump out of the water and come up for air in
the waters of life and then with breath and sound
call forth what they most need or desire so phaps this is the lesson of the totem! - universal harmony and moving foward and I've always loved dolphins. x