George, from what I've seen and experienced, those who are in focus 23 thru focus 27 have bodies. Those who are more advanced appear as balls of light.  My feeling is that they don't really have bodies but 'think' they do, therefore they do because our thoughts manifest what we want.

Love,
Mairlyn 

Hi Dora,

Yes, you are so right. And once those beliefs are shed, then those who are non-physical realize that they don't need the thought form bodies that they have created.  I guess I should have stated that it is my beliefs that lead me to 'see' bodies whereas we actually all have energy signatures that we learn to recognize in the non-physical.

Love,
Mairlyn   

Freebird,

Respecting your point of views, but it is very obvious that we not typing in a same language, not when it comes to understanding the terms...


By the way, Beliefs create reality? to your question NO, Perception create reality, and that is always influenced by beliefs and your post is perfectly reflect just that. I have no doubt that all of this are absurd for you, since you don't seem to  understand that your beliefs true for you but have very little impact on mine...
Neither of us better or worst, but different

In my understanding, and many experience what support those understandings, belief systems, beliefs, are NOT the same as "believing" something.
Beliefs in my understanding not limited to religious beliefs, but every moment, every action, every thoughts is influenced and based on beliefs...

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Obviously we have different view on reality it self also.... You believe that God working to help us...

I believe that there is not God, not anyone create my reality other then myself. My reality is not based on the beliefs in a fictitious character.. and that is my preference and choice in beliefs...
and that give me the understanding that

Freedom is simply choice and the knowing of it.  In actuality, freedom is merely the knowing of the expression of choice in any and every situation.

Good grief!!!

Freebird....

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I'm very well aware of that   so am I....

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Actually I did, and since I evaluated my own aligment with the beliefs previously i.e. "higher power" and took  the "liberty" to excersise my freedom of choices  in  beliefs and actions , - not by force - since then I do not create trauma, turmoil, illnesses, problems, tragedies, and if and when I do, I understand that nobody creating it for me, other them myself,  -nothing what I would need to "pray" about,nor have to be saved from anything,  and certainly never did and never will encounter in anykind of "evil" since those are never was and never will be part of my reality... But I understand that long as I'm manifested in physicality the only thing I can and DO is noticing, identifying, recognizing, adressing and accepting my own beliefs, so as others, with the best reward and that is awareness and self-knowledge

Hi, freelight,

An interesting line of thought, as is Marilyn`s first posting on this topic.

If the spirit evolves at a higher level to a ball of light energy, how are they to recognise each other if they all appear the same? Surely, there must only be one frequency of light energy, which we are capable of perceiving, for all spirits at this level,  If not, why not?
For that matter, how would we recognise them when they visit us, although I appear to answer my own question, below?

To my way of thinking I would like to agree with you, albeit in a visit to the Afterlife I had over a year ago at one stage I was approached by five orbs of light (curl-shaped as Bruce described in his books), one being much brighter than the others. Although I didn`t "recognise" them as people, I automatically "knew" who they were, with my wife being the brightest orb, and both her parents and mine as the others.

Perhaps Marilyn is right in that at some stage the transformation from a body-spirit to light-spirit is made.
Have others experience of this?

regards, roger      

Roger........I do know that we each have an energy signature that we are identified with.  I don't know anything about it, but Bob McKelvy who posts on here too, might be able to explain it better.  I became aware of the energy signature when he wrote to me one day probably 2 years ago and said that he had seen me teaching at TMI THERE.  I wrote back that that was very interesting as I had no idea that I teach 'there', and what was I teaching. And how did he know it was me.  Bob replied that there was no mistaking my energy signature, that we all have them, and that's how we know who we're talking to/dealing with.  I have yet to understand this as I see souls 'with bodies' (I guess my belief system) and also see souls as Light Beings but I don't recognize their 'energy signature.'

Bob went on to tell me that a man named Marvin had told him to go and see me teach.  In describing the man, it was my father.

Anyway, perhaps we can get Bob to relate more on 'energy signatures.'

Love, Mairlyn

Love Bob 

Scott,

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Based on my understandings and experiences we are consciousness period. The only difference between *here* and *there* that we choose to manifest in physicality, and with that choice we agree" as this physical dimension "blueprint" that we manifest in body, AND agreed to apply  "belief systems" without NO exception...

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The biggest difference is that most individual due to the rigid and unmovable -knowing the truth-  beliefs  seeing themselves as a single "entity" therefore seeing themselves as a "thing". so body is a thing here, then we have to  be a  *thing* there also, *here* is a lower or higher direction here then it has to be* there* also..based on the  never examined or understood separation and duplicity beliefs...  

I  could share my own understanding but certainly not with this clarity as the following...

ELIAS: “Everything, every thing, underline three times, is composed of links of consciousness, for there is no existence that is not consciousness!”

ELIAS: “You are not a shell! You do not possess a vessel! You are not a boat floating upon a river! You are not a vase containing flowers! You are a magnificent expression of extremely complicated arrangements of links of consciousness which physically manifest into matter of atoms and molecules that you manipulate.

ELIAS: “Let us view the workings of consciousness – what IS consciousness – and the distinctions of essence and consciousness. You may notice throughout this information that I express a distinction between essence and consciousness. Essence is consciousness, but there is consciousness that is not essence. Essence is also unlimited. This be the area that is very difficult for your understanding within physical focus, for you are so very accustomed to thinking in singular terms. All that you create within your physical dimension moves in this direction.

“You create things. You identify things. Even things that you may not see you classify as things, and this creates great difficulty within your thinking and your imagining of how there may be an element that is not a thing and that may be some quality in itself but unbounded simultaneously, that may be thought of in the manner of a distinction but not separate....

“In this, I have spoken previously of links of consciousness. Links of consciousness are not things either. They are elements of consciousness, but they hold no form. They are not within what you term to be a time framework, although they may be inserted into a time framework, but the time framework itself is comprised of links of consciousness, and these links of consciousness have no necessary space arrangement. They exist within all space arrangements simultaneously and within all time frameworks simultaneously.

(Intently) “Essence is not separate and apart from consciousness. There is no separate and apart from consciousness. There is no boundary to consciousness. There is no limit to consciousness. Therefore, there is no thing, no element, no action outside of consciousness, for there is no outside. Within consciousness, the configuration of these links of consciousness creating personality tone is the designation of essence.

“You are thinking of your essence as a ‘thing’ – an ‘entity.’ As I explained, I am not an entity. You are not, either. An entity denotes a separate thing. You are not a thing.”

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It matters not.... we all resonate materials according to our own awareness, in my beliefs that is just different, in others view  I'm wrong... the difference is that I understand that the only thing I KNOW, that I  know nothing, and that certainly set me free from the battle of "truth fighting" and I'm not slave of my own beliefs...

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_________
yes, George, I believe based on a retrieval I did where I could "feel" by tactile touch the girl's body as warm and as solid as any body I have ever touched, so I do believe that this condition of perception can be just as "real" as our physical bodies are now appearing to be real. also I have been an orb once complete with all my other senses I use in the physical body except I could see in back of me as well. also there is a state of awareness one can be in where there is no apparent body until desire to have one takes effect. apparently we can have our cake and eat it too. George, you have become a lightworker here of substantial value! I thank you for your presence and your interesting questions.

love, alysia
images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/enlighten.gif

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Personally, I interpret the creation story in the Book of Genesis in a looser, more metaphorical sense than what fundamentalist Christians believe.  I believe it is possible to reconcile the Biblical story of creation with scientific theories such as the Big Bang and evolution of species (albeit with modifications requiring divine intervention to accomplish creative purposes).  For example, there could have been a Big Bang, and this corresponds to when God said "Let there be light."  There could be evolution of species and this corresponds to the six-day progression in which life on earth was created according to the Genesis account, each day representing an age or epoch.  God planned it and determined it, but it happened through the functioning of physical laws over long periods of time.  God works in mysterious ways that are sometimes not easily provable as divine intervention, but they really are.  I see it as more a teleological issue rather than a question of precisely how God accomplishes His will.  Some Christians will debate against evolution until their face turns blue, but I think they're missing the point.  Physical evolution combined with teleological divine purpose can be just as glorious as a more literalistic method of creation.

As for man being created in God's image, I don't think that means the physical body.  I think it means that we are spiritual beings like God, with His attributes latent within us.  We are like the spiritual offspring of God and therefore are part of His family in a metaphorical sense.

Freebird

P.S.  To box a quote, you can hit the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button, or you can use quote tags -- put the word quote in brackets at the beginning of the text you wish to quote, and then again at the end, but with a / (the forward slash character) before the word quote.

Thank you dearest Alysia. I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, only trying to get things back on track to the loving open forum that this was and can still be. I remember when it was a joy to read of other's experiences, question them yes, but not try to make someone feel that it was all in their head (which basically it is LOL because it's all a journey inward, even to the afterlife).  The newbies have no idea what it was like before. I was so excited because I had read Bruce's first 3 books and wanted to learn all I could and when I faltering posted my first retrieval, was so thrilled when Bruce said it was a class textbook retrieval.  What is the last retrieval posted here?  There's hardly any talk of retrievals anymore.  I realize that times change but I refuse to buy into all the negativity that has resulted from the skepticism.

No, no one has to believe it because we say it's true. If only people would find out for themselves instead of putting people's experiences down. As you know Alysia, no one can convince anyone else of KNOWNS.  They come from direct experience.

Much Love dear friend,
Mairlyn   

Alysia,

I think what’s happening is that we have posters/readers coming from a minimum of three angles. The first and probably the originals were/are those who wanted to continue the journeys described by Monroe, Moen and others and keyed in Bruce’s web site directly.  That’s how I came here 3-4 years ago and continue to do so. The second group is coming to this site by browsing “afterlife” seeking answers about the afterlife and come with an “empty cup”.  They since have become more and more involved in experiencing the afterlife directly and sharing their stories.  I love reading their input. The third group surfs the web “afterlife” to confirm or debate what they believe about the general category “afterlife” but basically come with a “full cup”.  Personally boring (to me) but they need to have their say too because, after all, they just might have something interesting or challenging to say/learn or I might.   

The web has become a wonderful tool to connect with information and share with others what can sometimes be a lonely existence.  The web can also be used to obfuscate any issue while at the same time getting your name in print to a wider audience.   It’s a wonderful thing that more and more of us are able to read/write/study, write long papers and even cut and paste other writers to argue a point.  But what I gain the most from is people’s personal experience with those who have left the physical plane.  These truly comfort me especially since I have become involved in the mental health field.  When I go to work and listen to the stories, those “crazies” they aren’t so crazy after all.  It’s a shame that the best we have to offer them is “better life through chemistry” and that Monroe and Moen would be considered crazy in my field. My “clients” stories parallel my experiences and those of the authors I’ve read on many nonphysical encounters including those on this board and have yet to contain anything really unfamiliar.
 
I love this board but also have problems when seeking what I came here in the first place because much of what is currently happening is bordering on the proselytizing of personal belief systems. It’s becoming more difficult to weed through the monologues to get to meat of personal stories.  These other topics may be interesting in themselves and definitely old and familiar, but don’t comfort me in my personal journey through the later years of my life. The Monroe/Moen related material does and the personal accounts on this board do.  But then again, I’m getting a first hand education on limited belief systems that individuals (including myself) hold that prevent themjkeyes from realizing that theyjkeyes are more than there/my bodies and that they/I can learn this through first hand experience.

I “live” for your postings and those of the many others who resonate with this site, all give so freely with love.  Thanks & keep up with the good work.  Take HEART and welcome to the “now” where we each (including the monologers with full cups ) are so connected/intertwined with each other due to technology and our increased awarness. All must continue to be welcome to contribute or we'll wind up resembling a religion.   
 

Jean          

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Bob, thank you so much for posting this.  You have clearly put it into words for me and explained why I see and talk to people on the other side and I know them well... yet I don't know their name.

Love, Kathy