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WOO-WOO-WOO NONSENSE GET REAL

Dude said: "Regarding the Bible, many doubts regarding its legitimacy seem to come from the false assumption that the Heavenly Father doesn't have the power to create a body of text that is in accord with his will and that He is unable or unwilling to exert influence in the minds and hearts of man."

Recoverer responds: "It is the above way of thinking that causes many people to be turned off by literal Christianity. They understand that God provided us with intelligence so that we could use it. If one reads the Bible with true discernment, one will see that it includes imperfections and inconsistencies that come from "men" not God.

Consider this, earlier on this thread Dude wrote that Jesus is God. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke don't say this. The Gospel of John says so a few times, but many times within it Jesus speaks as if God is someone other than himself.

I doubt this inconsistency comes from God because one way or the other, he knows the truth. I figure the inconsistencies come from men.

I wonder how many people decided to believe that Jesus is God not because they actually knew this, but for reasons such as: "Somebody told them they better accept this viewpoint or they will go to hell for all of eternity." Whether or not this viewpoint is true, I figure God and Jesus or God/Jesus, is/are able to understand when this viewpoint is or isn't accepted because a person actually knows which viewpoint is true; or because a person is afraid of the consequences if he (or she) doesn't accept it. I doubt that God and Jesus or God/Jesus, is/are ANGRY with people who don't view Jesus as God because they considered all of the parts of the Bible where Jesus spoke as if God is someone other than himself.

The more we connect to God within our heart, the more we'll understand that God doesn't mind when we question everything, including the Bible.

I once had this dream. Take it as you well. I was in a meeting room with about 20-30 people. We were trying to determine how to make this world a better place. I said "Perhaps we should invite some fundamentalist Christian leaders to this meeting." An annoyed Jesus said, "Impossible!"  With the meaning that fundamentalist Christians aren't going to help out.

I find it troubling when people view Jesus as a dictator like being who desires to be worshiped. I figure he is way too wise and loving to think in such terms. It seems to me that Doc is on track with he spoke on how to consider Jesus' teachings as found in the gospels.

It is important to remember than even while incarnated in bodies, we are spirit beings, not body-based people. If a person can be fooled while in the body, why not afterwards after he or she dies? Eventually a person will have to use his or her discrimination.

Below is what Doc said:

"The thing that concerns me about this thread is that some Christians see themselves as separate from the divine.  For that reason, they need scripture to tell them what is divine - but in doing so, they separate themselves even more from the divine.  Jesus told his disciples that they can do what he did, and that following his path (of love) they can become what he became (one with the Father, love and heaven).  The idea then that one should feel unworthy of this is sad to me.  The notion of man being born in sin, and hellfire without following dictates written in the Bible is a fear based approach to God's love.  It doesn't work.  Well it works, but for the wrong reasons.

If a person follows the laws not because he incorporates the spirit of the gospels into his heart, but because he feels he is a damned sinner and has no other hope of redemption, then he/she is acting in the right way for the wrong reasons.

I would rather find the insight of the gospels that love is our nature.  That we are all one, and that God's love is our foundation.  That we are not sinners, but but part of a greater whole of consciousness.  In doing so, i feel that I will follow right action from my heart, not out of fear."

If God told man not to seek out communication with spirits because of the high risk of being deceived and harmed by demonic entities, do you think his "angels" (as Swedenborg uses the term for human spirits in heaven) would engage in this communication that was initiated in violation of God's law? I think not, especially if Swedenborg is correct in his description of the nature of "angels," but also simply because any spirit in communion with God will necessarily act in accord with his will. Something to think about when considering the nature of Swedenborg's conversations with spirits.

Regarding previous comments regarding the Bible, I once had similar reservations about the validity of the Word. I found that this was due to a strong ego, preconceived bias, and a lack of honest research, study and understanding. Once I took a more open minded and honest approach, I found that I had been very wrong. So just realize that I once entertained the exact objections and arguments that are being shared here, and being that everything in myself and my life is pointing to the fact that I am evolving, growing and improving, in many ways which would take too long to describe, I think its safe to rule out the idea that this is a devolution from my previous mindset. Although I recommend everyone contemplate the title of the thread and at least try to keep the conversation relevant to the purpose.

Also, when someone who claims to be in contact with spirits in some way is saying things that deceptive channeled spirits (demons) have been saying for over a century, the source and validity of the information shared becomes clear.

One of the consistent, many year long messages of Albert and I here has been that when contacting and communicating with the nonphysical, or coming upon sources that claim same, it’s important and necessary that a person uses their deeper discrimination and discernment, which is a combo of intuition, holistic logic, and wisdom from experience. This is because, as we have found out, there are indeed deceptive and hindering beings out there.  We have consistently over many years, despite much social pushback here, called out sources which either distort or malign Yeshua’s life or message.

   As far as interest in and openness to the Bible, speaking for self, this self first became interested in and curious about Yeshua in a non religious, non dogmatic way in the early teens due solely to inner intuition, then not long after started researching Christianity and reading the Bible with an open, but discerning mind.  I will fully admit that all in all, I have and do prefer the NT, because I’ve found in the Teacher Yeshua a fulfillment of all the wisdom of the OT, and as Yeshua stressed time and time again, if you live the greatest commandments to love the Creator with all your heart, and love others as yourself, then will all wisdom be given to you. He stressed, time and time again, this “greatest” commandment in combination with going within one’s own closet to pray and listen to the Creator within.  These are not just words or intellectual concepts to me, they are precepts and ideals that I have tried to live for many years. These are living truths to this self.

Over the years, both Albert and I have both had a number of message having to do with Yeshua, and experiences involving Yeshua. Neither of us have spoken about all of them here though. 

   Despite all this, both of the above people, including others, have debated with you some recently.  Some of these others also have more than passing familiarity with and openness to the Bible as well--people like Kathy and Matthew.  Kathy is someone who has studied the Bible, and Matthew is Jewish, and whom long has been open to the life, example, and messages of Yeshua.  All of us, have had this openness and interest, long before yourself.   

    Your views and perspectives have seem to become a little over black and white.  I say “become”, but it’s less that, and more you’ve just switched beliefs, but your approach is still a little over fixed and a little black and white.  Years ago, you questioned in a critical way, some of Albert’s and my beliefs and perceptions, because we didn’t just accept any old source coming out of the New Age scene. We openly questioned various sources from Seth, ACIM, Robert Bruce, etc and you at times hopped on the social bandwagon of “calling us out” for same.  Can you begin to see the irony in all of this?  And yet, both of these people and others are trying to caution you that you are going too far with your current approach. 

    Are you aware Vincent that for awhile now, and currently, the slow moving Planet Uranus (currently in Aries), that which Cayce’s guidance called the Planet of the extremes and of the psychic, has been squaring (at a 90* angle to) your natal Sun position, which is towards the end of Capricorn, near the beginning of Aquarius?   Squares indicate difficult, tense, stressful, and/or challenging connections and cycles.  The Sun is a sensitive point in most people’s chart (and represents our inner character composite), and Uranus square same indicates those Uranian tendencies to extremes are becoming highlighted in your psyche in a difficult, challenging way during this cycle.  And Uranus is already a somewhat difficult energy/consciousness without the square also being a factor.

  I bring this up not as judgement in the spirit of condemnation, but in the hopes of sparking some self awareness and reflection on your part. Right now, you are rather attuned to the consciousness that Uranus represents--particularly to it’s more fixed and extremist side.  I will put some quotes about Uranus from Cayce’s work on the thread that I started.

    Before I leave, I will ask, what did Yeshua say about exploring or communicating with the nonphysical?   Did he constantly speak about how we shouldn’t communicate with any “spirits”?  If not, then why not?  Wasn’t he far more consciously One with the Creator than any of the OT authors? Wasn’t he the Adon in the flesh?  See, you’re building up a belief system, based on others interpretations and distortions.  A more balanced, even approach would be more helpful both to self and to others. 

The following links should clear up some misunderstandings that have been expressed in recent posts. All of these links give direct references to scripture, which illustrate the various misconceptions stated in this thread and correct them according to the actual Word of God. It's good to know what is actually written before making arguments based on same.

On Jesus being God and consistency issues:

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/is-jesus-god/

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html

About communication with God:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-communication.html

About communication with spirits:

http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-wrong-ouija-boards-or-contacting-spir...

Regarding the credibility of scripture according to Jesus:

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/on-the-infallibility-of-scripture/

Regarding literal interpretation of God's Word:

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_BibleTrue.htm

Regarding animal sacrifices:

https://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html

If believing that the Bible is the Word of God is an extreme or fundamentalist position, then I guess I am an extreme fundamentalist, although with all things considered, it is a far more logical position than being a Cafeteria Christian. But I feel that some here have a distorted view of what I actually believe.

     Hey Albert, what you did you order today at Cafe De Christian?  Me, I had a hummus/mixed greens/brown rice wrap, with a side of meditating and communing directly with Source, Yeshua, and the collective of Co-Creators. 

   Vince, it seems pretty clear that no matter what we say or don't say, you're not interested in hearing our views and perspectives.  Perhaps to some extent that is well, because both of us are fallible humans whom sometimes mis perceive things or have distorted perception.

   But I ask you to consider the following instead: Set some time aside for meditating and prayer, make a prayer/set an intention of asking to communicate and commune with only the original/first Creator and Yeshua.  Ask these to completely shield you from any hindering forces and beings. 

    Focus on remembering feelings of Love and/or gratitude, when you get deep and still within, ask the above if what Albert and Justin of the Afterlife Forum have been recently saying to you is more correct than not?  Ask them if Yeshua is the original Creator, or if he is a child of the original Creator whom became a full companion and Co-Creator with same through use of the Creator given Will?

    Since you won't listen to Albert and I about these issues, perhaps you'll listen to the Creator and Yeshua?

   Scripture is one thing, but direct communing with Source and Yeshua is something else entirely.  There are almost hundreds of different Christian groups/sects, and many of them interpret scripture differently in various different areas. Scripture is like anything related to perception--we interpret, translate, and perceive based on how we are at a being level.  If we are not very expanded and attuned to PUL and Source within, the more distortion is found in our perception and translation.  The more we attune to and choose these, the more clear, expanded, accurate, and helpful our perception and translating tends to become. 

  For awhile I read and pondered scripture (both the OT and NT, but with more emphasis on the NT), but then I decided that directly attuning to and communing with Source and Yeshua was a more helpful and direct way of realizing truths.  That has been my primary method for many years now.  When I talk about this method to others, I keep it open ended and say it's important to set an intention to communicate and commune with only the most expanded, most loving, helpful, creative-constructive (I don't tell them who or what that is).   

  I keep it open ended because I don't want to overly force my beliefs on others, but my little "secret" is, I don't say it exactly like that when I do the above, I often ask and pray to attune to and communicate/commune with only Source, Yeshua, and those fully One in a conscious sense, with these. 

  Though you and I have been doing this for many years now, our friend Vincent here whom has recently come to certain realizations, is the master of this method and knows far more than us cafeteria Christians whom don't know what we're talking about, even though we were correct about Seth, ACIM, etc.     

Justin:

If you look at old Hindu texts and what some Native Americans did, they also sacrificed animals. I wouldn't be surprised if some fake Reptilian God got people to do animal sacrifices. Such practice has nothing to do with spiritual growth and the health of our souls. It is possible that Moses was misled at times. A person who isn't able to question the Bible won't see this.

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I think that spiritual exploration brought and continues to bring seekers to this forum.  Part of this exploration involves reading and learning concepts or ideas, but another part involves a quest for direct spiritual experience.  People have presented their experiences with meditation, paranormal experiences, astral travel, etc., and have discussed near death experiences.  What unites most people here is the ability to share experiences and be open minded.

While I respect a person's decision to base their spiritual journey on the literal written interpretation of the bible, it makes it difficult to engage in discussions simply because a quote here or another there will, for the fundamentalist believer end the discussion (since to them, the quote of the written word is the highest authority).  That is why some fundamentalists eventually leave this forum, since they are there more to share the literal word of the bible, than to engage in an open discussion.


E. Swedenborg was a devout believer in Christ.  He also made thorough descriptions of the nature of the soul, heaven, hell, etc.  Some of what he described went against church doctrine - but not the teachings of the gospels.  In the NT, the nature of the soul, the stages after death that ES describes, none of this is described in any detail in the OT or NT.  For ES, his cosmology was congruous with the written word - just not the interpretation of man. 

To me, all this talk of angels vs. demons is a sign of a lack of understanding of the true nature of our consciousness.  In the physical world, we break everything down into polar opposites; good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, black vs. white, not realizing while incarnate that polar opposites are actually on a spectrum.  The yin yang sign bests describes this with a white fish and black fish in a circle.  The white fish has a black eye, and usually the black fish has a white eye, so that each of the opposites merge and the end of one is the beginning of the other. 

The idea that all spiritual communication or astral travel is to be avoided and done by the devil to deceive us is fear based nonsense (IMHO).  I see my consciousness as being part of the greater whole.  I don't see myself as being "up for grabs" by the dark side or the light, rather, we are all part of a greater consciousness. 

It is with this understanding that makes me find the fear based approach way off the mark.


M