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The Sabbath (Read 2655 times)
I Am Dude
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The Sabbath
May 9th, 2017 at 12:46pm
 
This is a highly debated topic in the Christian community and I'm a bit uncertain with all the conflicting information. Is the Sabbath to be kept by Christians according to the word of God? If so, how are we to know what day the Sabbath is? Saturday? Sunday? Did they not use a different calendar system back in the days of Moses? Is it like the sacrificial laws, where they were fulfilled by the sacrifice of Christ, so that it is no longer necessary? I've heard Christians saying that Jesus is now our Sabbath. What exactly does that mean, where does this idea come from, and how is it applied in practice?

Thanks!
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #1 - May 9th, 2017 at 1:35pm
 
  The answer is found in how Yeshua approached the Sabbath. How much did he focus on the Sabbath as a particular day? 

The Sabbath was originally meant as a day of material rest/non focus to completely focus on the Creator and the Creator's ways. 

  When Yeshua came, he taught by example, that everyday was Sabbath, that we should always focus on the Creator and the Creator's way, no matter where we were, what we were doing or not doing, or what day it was. 

The true Sabbath is in one's heart and in conscious connection and communion with the Creator and Creator like Love--that also is where the true Church is found. 

  The Pharisees on the other hand, took a book and it's teachings and made it overly about a day and the rules of the day.  As in most things, they got lost in the letter of the Law, while missing the Spirit and deeper truth of the Law, which completely hinges on and revolves around pure, universal, unconditional Love. 

  If one has attunement to that Consciousness, then all other wisdom will be added, and one becomes Law, even as Yeshua did.
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TheDonald
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #2 - May 9th, 2017 at 8:50pm
 

The clearest example of the Christian replacement of the Jewish Sabbath with Sunday worship is Revelation 1:10:
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day (Greek: "hyriake")."
"Kyriake" is a rare Greek term that is used for Easter Sunday in the Gospel of Peter (c. 125b AD) and thus clearly means that early Christians wanted the day of Jesus' resurrection, Sunday, to be their holy day.

Paul makes it clear that the day we choose for worship doesn't matter, so long as we set aside at least one day for worship:

"Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike.  Let everyone be fully convinced in his own mind (Romans 14:5)." 

Paul repudiates Jewish Christian objections to Gentile worship on Sundays: 

"Do not let anyone condemn you in matters of...observing festivals, new moons, or SABBATHS (Colossians 2:16)."
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SourceLover2
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #3 - May 9th, 2017 at 9:11pm
 
   Paul had a long ways to go before he was anywhere close to be at the level of wisdom, insight, and clear perception of Yeshua. It is better to look to Yeshua's direct teachings and examples in matters. 

   Paul was the same person who hatefully persecuted followers of Yeshua, until he got knocked on his arse by Yeshua in a powerful and very hard to deny way. 

  Perhaps not the clearest source of perception around, even though he changed his ways quite a bit. He certainly had a lot to make up for. 

   I've been told in various different, inner and outer ways that my Spirit/Disk had a lifetime in Israel during Yeshua's time. This self came into much conflict with Paul, and not only this self, but other selves considered Paul an extremist and a bit unstable. 

    He condemned my other self's marriage to a younger woman, and constantly was preaching that Church leaders should be celibate. 

  So no, I don't consider Paul a source of undiluted, non distorted truth.  Yeshua YES, Paul NO. (Not to say it's black and white and that Paul didn't have good or wise things to say, because he did, but he was not at, nor even near, Yeshua's level).   
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TheDonald
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2017 at 12:15am
 
"Paul had a long ways to go before he was anywhere close to be at the level of wisdom, insight, and clear perception of Yeshua."

You pontificate from ignorance of the subtleties and Paul' remarkable teaching on spirituality.  You don't even bother to consider the merits of what he said on the OP's subject!

"Paul was the same person who hatefully persecuted followers of Yeshua, until he got knocked on his arse by Yeshua in a powerful and very hard to deny way."

And King David is a murderer and an adulterer.  Yet he is the only man to be described by the Bible as "a man after God's own heart."  His psalms are a gold mine of honest confession and spiritual insight.  People change, Justin, and often rise to great spiritual heights by virtue of the extremes of their amazing spiritual journeys.

"I've been told in various different, inner and outer ways that my Spirit/Disk had a lifetime in Israel during Yeshua's time."

A claim that, for me, discredits your claims to revelations form spirit.  You remind me of Marilyn, a longtime poster on this site who claimed to be the reincarnation of Peter.  Yet she couldn't even answer a simple question like, "What is the name of the outhouses you had to use on a daily basis?" I'm reminded of research on mass hypnotic past life regression that revealed several Napoleons in the group.  One of the main factors that refutes alleged past life recall is the frequent New Ager claim either to have been someone famous in a past life or to have known someone famous. 

"This self came into much conflict with Paul, and not only this self, but other selves considered Paul an extremist and a bit unstable." 

In fact, Paul was so appealing that he did more than the 12 apostles combined to help make Christianity a world religion.   

"He condemned my other self's marriage to a younger woman, and constantly was preaching that Church leaders should be celibate."

On the contrary: "Because of cases of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband (1 Corinthians 7:2)."  Paul proceeds to prohibit married couples from denying each other sex.  In a fact, a couple of chapters later, he can even ask: "Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas (= Peter) (9:5)?"  True, Paul recommends, but does not require celibacy for the moment because of the virulent persecutions new Christian families are facing in his day. 

 
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2017 at 12:58am
 
TheDonald wrote on May 10th, 2017 at 12:15am:
"Paul had a long ways to go before he was anywhere close to be at the level of wisdom, insight, and clear perception of Yeshua."

You pontificate from ignorance of the subtleties and Paul' remarkable teaching on spirituality.  You don't even bother to consider the merits of what he said on the OP's subject!

"Paul was the same person who hatefully persecuted followers of Yeshua, until he got knocked on his arse by Yeshua in a powerful and very hard to deny way."

And King David is a murderer and an adulterer.  Yet he is the only man to be described by the Bible as "a man after God's own heart."  His psalms are a gold mine of honest confession and spiritual insight.  People change, Justin, and often rise to great spiritual heights by virtue of the extremes of their amazing spiritual journeys.

"I've been told in various different, inner and outer ways that my Spirit/Disk had a lifetime in Israel during Yeshua's time."

A claim that, for me, discredits your claims to revelations form spirit.  You remind me of Marilyn, a longtime poster on this site who claimed to be the reincarnation of Peter.  Yet she couldn't even answer a simple question like, "What is the name of the outhouses you had to use on a daily basis?" I'm reminded of research on mass hypnotic past life regression that revealed several Napoleons in the group.  One of the main factors that refutes alleged past life recall is the frequent New Ager claim either to have been someone famous in a past life or to have known someone famous. 

"This self came into much conflict with Paul, and not only this self, but other selves considered Paul an extremist and a bit unstable." 

In fact, Paul was so appealing that he did more than the 12 apostles combined to help make Christianity a world religion.   

"He condemned my other self's marriage to a younger woman, and constantly was preaching that Church leaders should be celibate."

On the contrary: "Because of cases of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband (1 Corinthians 7:2)."  Paul proceeds to prohibit married couples from denying each other sex.  In a fact, a couple of chapters later, he can even ask: "Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas (= Peter) (9:5)?"  True, Paul recommends, but does not require celibacy for the moment because of the virulent persecutions new Christian families are facing in his day. 


    Not sure why you are bringing this to a personal level, when I impersonally disagreed with and pointed out things from a different perspective? 

    I do not claim to be the direct, literal reincarnation of a biblical character btw.  I said my Spirit had a life then, not that I'm a direct reincarnation of this person. Our Spirit selves are much more vast than our little Soul selves. 

   For a biblical example, I believe that Elijah and John the Baptist were two different, unique, freewilled, self aware, but very connected Soul selves within/part of the same larger Spirit (or what Bruce refers to as a Disk). 

  Regarding Marilyn and reincarnation, most of us can't even remember what we ate for breakfast 10 days ago (at least I can't), and so why the heck would most of us remember trivial little details from another life?  That "logic" is quite myopic and shows grasping at straws. Generally, most of us are meant to forget much so there is not the emotional burden of this knowledge, or so we can learn things in a fresh way.

  What are your takes on dreams?  Are dreams created by our personality, conscious minds?  Are dreams "demonically" controlled and made?  Or, as the Bible suggests time and time again, that dreams are one of the more common means of perception into the realms of Soul and Spirit? 

    Here's a dream that I had related to the above:  I observed my Aunt talking from a Soul level, about my Uncle, and she said that my Uncle had been Lukas of Cyprus or Cyrene (can't remember which of these specifically now) during the time of Yeshua, and was a healer.  She mentioned that in this present life (as my Uncle), when he was younger, he had experienced possession/influence from dark beings. 

  The dream was interesting to me for various reasons.  One, I remember my Mom telling me that this Uncle, her brother, when he was younger, had a terrible, dark temper and could really lose it.  I had never seen that side of him though, and was surprised when she mentioned it. 

Two, my Aunt's first name is Casey, which is pronounced the same as Cayce as in Edgar Cayce.  Casey is actually the original form of the name. 

   Three, years before this dream, I had the intuition that my Spirit had had the life then of a person named Lucius.  According to the Cayce readings, Lucius's uncle was "Luke" the physician.  I didn't know it until after the dream and a little research, but our english "Luke", originally at that time would have been pronounced more like "Lukas" for the Greek.  Interesting that my Uncle in this life, had been my other self's Uncle in that life.   

  The dream seemed to be both confirming my earlier intuition, and that Cayce's info about those individuals was correct. Btw also before the above dream, Bruce's professional psychic friend, Carolene, in her reading for me, mentioned that my Spirit had had a life during Yeshua's time and had known him.  I said yes, I was aware of this, and I think that his name was Lucius.  She said, "Yes, this feels true." 

  But no doubt, you'll chalk it up to delusion, demonic influence, or whatever you religious Christians like to demonize people with when they have different views and perceptions than yourselves. 

   You talk and talk about your great faith, your healings, your Church work, etc, etc but you don't even seem to practice some of the more basic of Yeshua's teachings here it seems. And I'm one of the few people here of the unwashed New Age Ghetto dwellers whom has stuck up for you at times over the years, when many here said basically to please leave.

   I said to these during these times, let's try to practice real PUL in relation to Don, and try to see past his brusque, judgmental, holier than thou manner and interaction with others.   

  Some of the most true Christians, are people that don't even call themselves such, like Albert.  Someone you would do well to pattern your life and interactions after, for he is much closer to Christ than you'll ever understand and perceive in this life.  If you asked the Creator and Yeshua directly about this, they'd give you the straight dope, but the question is, can you handle the unvarnished truth about self?

   


    

 
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2017 at 1:18am
 
p.s., I also don't consider King David anywhere close to Yeshua on the spiritual scale. How much do we truly know about these biblical characters?  Sometimes we think we know more than we do, when we're only going by some scant verses here and there in an ancient book.   

    Nor do I consider the Bible (especially not the OT) the infallible word of God.  It has much wisdom, much truth, but it's neither infallible, nor all completely 100% accurate in all things, and there are so many different interpretations out there, it's quite remarkable that people are all reading the same book, because it sounds like many of them are reading rather different books. 
   How many different groups out there total, that look to the Bible in some form or manner, all the different Jewish and Christian groups?  Some with radically different interpretations than each other.  Heck, many Jews don't even believe that Yeshua was the Messiah.  Why aren't you trying to convert them to the truth?  At least this self believes Yeshua was the Messiah. 

     I prefer direct communion with the Source/Co-Creator level. Then I have to only deal with my own lacking reception and translating--which is sometimes an issue, but eventually I usually come to a better understanding of info that I'm given.
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #7 - May 10th, 2017 at 3:40am
 
  It is perhaps irony that King David is mentioned here to help stand Paul up, because out of all the major characters of the Bible, there is the least concrete evidence for King David.  There is some evidence, but it's spotty. 

   Perhaps the better point is, that what is contained in the Bible about King David, might be highly mythologized and distorted by time and cultural prejudice, since he supposedly existed awhile before much of the OT was written and especially compiled. 

   Do I personally believe that King David existed, yes, but do I believe the Biblical accounts and references to him are completely accurate? Most likely not. 

  Here's a detailed, holistic article talking about David, the evidence for, and lack of evidence of, his historical existence.  But yes, somewhat ironic since one of the things that some have been bringing up about the Bible in a critical way, is that it's not directly the word of God in a completely literal, black and white sense, but came about by God inspired, but still distorted men, whom made mistakes, had gaps and errors of perception, etc.  In the OT's case, some of the characters clearly were subjected to mythologizing, exaggeration, being used symbolically (as a moral lesson for or against something--like Job), etc.   

   http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myth-and-reality-of-king-david-s-jerusalem

  People overly attached to this book, tend to use scripture in a very convenient way.  When scripture aligns with what they believe, it's "look, scripture says this is true!"  But when it contradicts, or it's clear that they are misinterpreting, then it's glossed over.

  Like I said on another thread, it's been my consistent experience with and observation of people, that the majority are not particularly interested in raw, undistorted truth.  Nor, can most recognize it when they are come face to face with it, because they don't yet resonate to it.

  It's like the Afterlife and it's levels and how "Like attracts and begets Like" there. 

We perceive and experience what we are at a being level. Unless we are more fully aligned to truth within, we will not perceive truth without very well, accurately, and holistically. Stronger, more pure, and consistent attunement to PUL, eventually expands, clarifies, balances and refines perception. 

  Edgar Cayce's guidance once said that Yeshua was the most psychic person to have existed. Indeed, because he was fully aligned to PUL within, and thus became very conscious of the Oneness in general and his Oneness with the Whole. This of course leads to very expanded perception in both a psychic/nonphysical way, and in a physical, mundane way.   
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I Am Dude
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #8 - May 10th, 2017 at 8:10am
 
Don, thanks for that explanation. I play four hours of volleyball on Sundays and usually work out as well. I'm wondering if did these activities with God in my mind and heart, it would be an acceptable adherence to the Sabbath? It's not exactly "rest" but it's not what I consider work either.

To those looking to debate the Bible:

The purpose of this thread is not to debate the legitimacy of the Bible or the individuals in it. I created this thread to examine a Biblical doctrine from the viewpoint of the Bible itself. Please show respect and keep posts on topic. If anyone cares to debate the Bible, please make your own thread to do so. Many thanks.
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2017 at 10:29am
 
Don:

A while back I spoke about how I felt it didn't seem correct for Paul to say things such as women should keep their heads covered and be subservient to men, after all, Eve ate the apple (I don't remember his exact words and can't reference the Bible now).

You responded that it may be that that portion of the Bible has a source that isn't considered credible. (I don't remember precisely what you said.).

If this is so, beyond the "how accurate is Paul" factor, it shows that one needs to use one's discrimination when reading the Bible, because some portions might have a source that don't represent what is true.
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #10 - May 10th, 2017 at 3:12pm
 
This article by a respected Bible scholar really hits the nail on the head regarding Paul and the issue of biblical inerrancy: http://drmsh.com/pre-scientific-worldview-problem-and-inerrancy/
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #11 - May 10th, 2017 at 5:27pm
 
Vince,

Here is a lighter side of Jewish Sabbath observance.   A few years ago, I participated in a guided tour of Israel.  My stay in a very tall posh hotel along the Dead Sea is one of my favorite memories for many reasons.  As I recall, my room was on the 27th floor.  On Sabbath morning, I and others went to the elevator to descend to the basement restaurant. 

The trip down seemed to take 20 minutes!  Why?  Because  contemporary Judaism forbids work on the Sabbath and evidently pressing an elevator button is considered "work" in Israel!  I pressed the button to the basement, but the elevator stopped on the 26th floor, then waited...and waited!  No passengers got on.  Then it descended to the 25th floor, stopped, with no passengers getting on--and I imagined I could hear crickets chirping during the annoying long delay!  The elevator stopped automatically and unnecessarily at every floor until it reached the basement.  Grrr!  Initially, I was annoyed by this, but after several floors during the tedious descent my annoyance turned into great amusement.

What awaited us in the basement restaurant were long rows of every imaginable breakfast option.  But I sensed something was missing.  Then I was surprised by the realization that there was no ham, bacon, or sausage.  Then I was embarrassed by my surprise because I remembered the obvious--Jews don't eat pork.  I guess I had mistakenly thought that they wouldn't impose this ban on Gentile tourists. 

After touring Masada, Engedi, and Qumran, our bus headed four Jerusalem.  It was still the Sabbath; so a large section of the city had its roads closed down and hundreds of pedestrians were out walking--a healthy practice, I guess.

btw, although it was 105 degrees at the Dead Sea, we couldn't get a tan or fell a burn in our swimming trunks, because (I was told) the lowest place of earth more thoroughly filters out ultraviolet light.   

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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #12 - May 10th, 2017 at 5:51pm
 
I Am Dude wrote on May 10th, 2017 at 3:12pm:
This article by a respected Bible scholar really hits the nail on the head regarding Paul and the issue of biblical inerrancy: http://drmsh.com/pre-scientific-worldview-problem-and-inerrancy/


  It's pretty simple really. Whom does it make more sense to listen to, Paul, or Yeshua? 

   Where Paul agrees with Yeshua's teachings, life, example, then does Paul show wisdom. 

   Where Paul differs with the above, Paul's ignorance and lack of attunement to PUL is showing. 

   Yeshua taught by direct example that everyday is Sabbath, because everyday, every moment, a true Christian should be trying to align their little will, with the Will of the Creator and those individuals fully One with It. 

   That doesn't mean that we can't have a day of rest or the like. But it's your intent, motivation, approach, and livingness of it that matters far more than whether it's a Tuesday, a Saturday, or a Sunday.

  A good example of this disconnect is a lot of modern day Christians.  Many Christians go to Church on Sunday, and they seem to think that following this "duty" makes them true Christians, but then they go on to be selfish, judgmental, and/or destructive in their interactions with others on the other days.   

  They have a belief in their mind, based on a combo of what they are told by others (supposed experts) and convenience sake, that they don't have to sacrifice themselves and their lives and choices every moment, everyday. 

   Well, truth is, Yeshua has called us to follow in his footsteps. But he is wise and patient enough to know that most humans would have a hard time fully following in his footsteps, BUT he still asks and urges us to do our best and to follow as much as we are able to considering whatever level of spiritual maturity we are at now. 

     Paul on the other hand, was more the Pharisee than was Yeshua. Yes, he changed much in his life, and it was a case of redemption. 

   But one cannot do warp speed jumps of spiritual attunement while connected to a body during a collectively slow vibratory cycle. Hence, Paul had a ways to go before he was near Yeshua's level. 

   Out of all the disciples and Apostles, it was John the Beloved whom ended up most following in Yeshua's footsteps.

  Anyways, there are modern day examples of redemption.  Howard Storm is a good example of that.  But relativity. As nasty, ego centered, and unattuned to PUL was Howard Storm before his NDE, he also was not partaking in the hunting down and murdering of fellow humans before his conversion! 

  Or, in other words, he had less of a jump of vibration to make from the get go.   

  No, for this self, I prefer to focus on and listen to Yeshua, both in a scriptural and living sense, than to Paul.  Yeshua received heat from the Pharisees et al. when he didn't follow suit on their Sabbath day beliefs and practices.  He tried to teach them that every day was Sabbath.

  If people cannot see what's clearly before their eyes when they read the NT, then no amount of outlining, holistic logic, and reason from this self, will help them see it I suppose.

  This is more for any other Christians or those interested in Yeshua, whom may be more on the fence about these matters.

   
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #13 - May 11th, 2017 at 12:32am
 







Albert, do you want me to make the case that Paul was the greatest champion of female dignity and equality that Christians have ever seen?

Justin: "It's pretty simple really. Whom does it make more sense to listen to, Paul, or Yeshua?" 

The correct mindset is to study how both teachers can be rendered compatible and obeyed.  In Paul's blinding Damascus road transformation, Christ calls Him to be an apostle to the Gentiles.  In other words, Paul is instructed to teach how to spply the significance of Christ's atoning death and resurrection to the new kingdom situation that has enveloped Jesus' followers. 

Justin: "Where Paul agrees with Yeshua's teachings, life, example, then does Paul show wisdom.  Where Paul differs with the above, Paul's ignorance and lack of attunement to PUL is showing." 

You have established no basic incompatibility between Paul and Jesus' teaching.  Nor have you honored Jesus' wish that Paul serve as His mouthpiece for the new Gospel which takes into account Jesus' death and resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

 "Yeshua...tried to teach them that every day was Sabbath."

Nonsense!  Jesus embraced the 10 Commandments, which include a command for rest on the Sabbath.  What Jesus objected to the legalism of the massive Jewish expansion of Sabbath regulations that prevented Jews from resting and performing essential service and acts of compassion on the Sabbath.  Thus, Jesus healed on the Sabbath and allowed His famished disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath.  The cpntroling principle for Jesus was this: "The Sabbath was made for man; man was not made for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27)."  In other words, God established Sabbath rest for the best interests of humanity, not vice versa. 

Paul reinforces the principle of the Gentile church that "Christ is the end of the Law for everyone who believes (Romans 10:4)."  Included in the Law of Moses were the 10 Commandments which the early church renews and reinterprets.  Sunday now becomes the Christian Sabbath in honor of the day of Christ's resurrection.  But Paul does not legislate Sunday worship for Jews or Gentiles.  Rather, allows for individual conscience and preference to determine which holy day is honored (Romans 14:5). 

For a simple but well informed sermon on the Sabbath, watch:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+sabbath+jesus&view=detail&mid=4BA94...

 
   

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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #14 - May 11th, 2017 at 3:32am
 
  Hi Don,

    Obviously Yeshua chose Paul for a reason, and I think Paul mostly fulfilled his role/purpose well. At the end of the day, I have appreciation to Paul's Soul for the service he rendered when he did. I don't have black and white views on Paul, or anything in life at this point.  I easily and often see the relativity of reality and truth. I think Paul said/taught some good and wise things. 

   But I'm certainly not the only and first person to see some differences between Yeshua's and Paul's teachings. Type that into an I-net search, and many different sites talking about this will pop up.  A number of books have been written about this very subject as well.  It's not a "new" perception by any means. It's actually a pretty old debate and controversy.

  What it boils down to for me, IS NOT SCRIPTURE, but is some cold, hard, metaphysical facts/unalterable truths, which not you, me, nor Yeshua, nor even the Creator Itself, can deny or change. 

   The Creator built in some Universal Laws into Reality/Creation--perhaps these were expressions/extensions of It's very Being and essence--not sure if it was a conscious act, or something just automatic (above this self's pay grade currently)?

  The more primary is that of "Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like".  This has SO many far reaching, deep implications on so many levels.  Sometimes I get the sense that many humans haven't really pondered the extent that this Universal Law shapes and influences Reality and our experiences/perceptions within same. 
     We see it obviously when we look at the Afterlife/nonphysical dimensions and it's automatic gradient organization from slow vibratory to faster and faster vibratory levels and how Souls get attracted to a particular level based on their strongest/most consistent energetics..  but how much do we ponder how much it relates to our current human experience?  (I've pondered it A LOT and in a very holistic way which considers many different levels). 

   But to briefly summarize this Law in relation to Yeshua vs Paul and this issue: Enlightened beingness begets Enlightened perception.  What do I mean by enlightened?  Full, complete attunement to a Love Consciousness that is of the Creator and of It's Son/Light, the first Co-Creator. 

  Yeshua so far, has been the only human in recorded, known history, whom became completely and truly Enlightened while connected to a human form.  Because he came to be, he came to have perfect, distortion free perception (especially so after the Resurrection). 

   I do not believe that Paul was truly and fully completely Enlightened like Yeshua was.  Hence, literally, completely IMPOSSIBLE for him to have always fully accurate and completely clear, non distorted perception in all things. 

   If you want to be content with lesser teachers like Paul, feel free.  But for me and my house, we shall focus on the living God, so to speak.  Paul, or any human like him, or rather not fully like Yeshua, would be an idol in the way, if overly focused on. 

   Now, it's possible that Paul could reincarnate again, and perhaps he get's everything all right this future time around. And if I was around then, and I was still not fully enlightened myself, then I would listen to this future Paul, as I've listened to Yeshua.   

    You know why you like Paul so much?  Because of that same very automatic Universal Law spoken above.  Not only does Like attracts, beget, and resonate with Like, but Like also likes Like on the deeper levels too.  Or in more human terms, birds of a feather, tend to flock together. 

  You are more enamored of and with Paul than I, because we are on different wavelengths and I'm more out of phase with Paul.  You and Paul, have a more similar spiritual/energetic wavelength and thus stronger resonation. 

   These metaphysics and the Universal Law, is a cold (only to humans), hard truth, that can be argued against all one wants, but one will always be on the losing side. 

  Unless you want to have the debate that Paul was as perfectly and fully attuned to Love like Yeshua was, there's not much else to discuss. 

  I agree with Albert, when reading Paul, or any non fully enlightened source, it's important we use our discrimination and separate the wheat from the chaff, because in such cases, there is bound to be chaff.  Chaff is not directly of God, but of It's erring Children and their rebellion, and frankly, I've become more and more tired of chaff and more and more only want the Wheat (the ancient, healthier kinds of course).

  I can't put any of this any clearer and more holistically to you.  Maybe actually listen with your heart and intuition to the wisdom that's being spoken, and not automatically react so much with intellect and body promptings. 

   You and I have a different attunement--you are very left brain focused for one into religion, and I'm neither religious, and I've always been very intuitive and very right brain in touch. We approach and process things things differently. 

  I'm more like a woman than you--who is more stereo typically male and masculine.  Perhaps sounds like a strange statement, but it's true.  A clue is some of Albert's old words relating about his ex girlfriend talking about the appearance of some of the younger, much more empathy and intuitive oriented males.  We are more like women, whom are more innately wired/tending towards that kind of attunement. 

(I've observed that some of the older males whom are more polarized to the masculine, tend to view this as weakness, but in truth, it's far from).   
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Re: The Sabbath
Reply #15 - May 11th, 2017 at 10:45am
 
Donald wrote: "Albert, do you want me to make the case that Paul was the greatest champion of female dignity and equality that Christians have ever seen?"

Albert responds: "No, I am not trying to be a wise guy. Going by some of your past posts it seems as if you realize that if one considers the Bible's history, one will find that not all parts are an accurate representation of how things are. For example, the Book of Isiah doesn't actually show that a being named Lucifer exists, because a translation error took place. You don't believe in a futuristic interpretation of the Book of Revelations. In the past you told me that it could be that Paul didn't actually make the "after all, Eve ate the apple" comment, I referred to earlier on this thread.

Here's a joke, I wouldn't be surprised if you and Paul are members of the same Disk. Smiley
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