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The Right Prayer Partner (Read 4597 times)
TheDonald
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The Right Prayer Partner
Apr 27th, 2017 at 3:28pm
 

This is an extremely important, but controversial issue. Sometimes people aren't healed because the right faith-filled person did not prayer for the answer to the need in question.  Here is the first of many instructive examples that illustrate the need for reflection on precisely what is the ideal state of consciousness "to get the job done."
 
(1) Anglican mystic, Agnes Sanford, has written several books on prayer and spirituality. In her classic, "The Healing Light," she tells the story of her dying baby grandson. Doctors had doomed the baby to imminent death. She was caring for the boy and organized prayer vigils to pray for healing--to no effect. She prayed constantly for healing without success. Then one day, a young first-year Bible school student dropped by, saying, "I heard you have a dying baby here and I've come to pray for his healing." Agnes said she felt indignant at his presumption. Didn't he realize that she was an expert on prayer and that the room was prayer-saturated? The arrogance of this inexperienced young man! But she couldn't bring herself to deny his request; so she grudgingly complied. She watched as he picked up the baby with joy radiating from his face as he lovingly prayed for the boy's recovery. She saw the baby gloriously healed before her very eyes, and was properly humbled by the realization that this young man was the right person at that time to serve as God's instrument of healing.

Agnes, was too ego-invested and too agitated to be God's instrument of healing in this case, and the Bible school student's calm divinely instilled confidence was exactly what God needed to channel full healing. Such anecdotes could be multiplied. Agnes's humbling experience raises that question of the criteria God uses to determine "the right intercessor."



 


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I Am Dude
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2017 at 8:09pm
 
Do you think it was Agnes herself who was wrong for the job, or was the problem in her attitude and approach which, if modified to replicate the student's, would have resulted in the same outcome that the young man achieved?
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 2:22pm
 
Dude, you couldn't have asked a better question or expressed it any better.   A definitive answer is elusive, but the spiritual stakes are high in the correct answer.  Frankly, I think my best response is to say, "Stay tuned for more examples" to see if a pattern emerges that hints at the right answer and the prayer principles involved. 

For now, let me suggest 2 relevant considerations. 
(1) In Jesus' stress on the need for "kingdom people" to be like "little children,"  one of His points is that we need the discipline of a beginner's mind in matters of faith.  Agnes rightly considered herself an expert on prayer and that self-image made her too left-brain conscious for the task at hand.  She was ego-invested in the prayer outcome and unavoidably anxious about the possibility of failure.  By contrast, the young Bible school student knew he lacked theological expertise or worthiness for the task.  There was an innocence and purity to his desire to make a decisive difference.  Put differently, his approach was more grace-based than Agnes's approach. 

(2) In Luke 17:5-6, the disciples have experienced an ineffective period in their intercession and, after introspection, have concluded that they need more faith.  Jesus' reply makes the point that the very act of looking within to assess the quantity of one's faith already creates doubt.  You can't try to believe; the very concept of "trying" dooms one to failure.  Rather, in childlike trust, you must boldly act on the assumption that you have all the faith you need and learn how to pray in the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18--an issue I will address later)."  Thus, Jesus insists that "mustard seed" ("the smallest of seeds") faith is all that is needed.  As the baby's doting grandma, Agnes could not help but "try" and became temporarily incapable of the requisite childlike trust.

P. S. I appreciated your summation of your faith journey and read it before you deleted it.  I'm not interested in highlighting disagreements in perspective.   Rather, I want you to have the most joyful, fulfilling relationship with Christ possible.  My motto is this: "In life theological understanding is the booby prize because it gives you just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the real thing--authentic divine experience in Christ." 

More testimonies will follow.
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I Am Dude
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 4:38pm
 
Thanks for the response, it was actually pretty in sync with what my intuition was telling me.

Regarding the post I deleted about how I came to Christ, I was hoping it wouldn't result in an attack or debate, and I'm happy your intention wasn't to shoot me down, although I'm not surprised. The way I see it, how we come to learn the truth of Jesus is rather irrelevant.

I shared my story with my longtime Christian uncle who is very wise and even though he surely didn't share some of the insights that led me to Christ (although he did recognize the widespread Satanism and anti-Christian movement taking place in the world), he had not one negative or argumentative thing to say, but rather told me that it was God who was looking for me this whole time and finally got me in a way which was unique to my own path. Apparently he's seen it happen many times before and to me, it makes sense.

I've actually lost most of my interest in my previous areas of investigation. What you said you want for me is exactly where my interest lies now, although I'm also looking to attain an accurate theological understanding of the Bible, as I think it will bring me even closer to God, although I could be wrong. I totally get and appreciate your motto, but perhaps there is a way to synchronize relationship with Christ with theological understanding?
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 6:00pm
 
Dude, regarding your "attack" comment, with all the things you said against that Catholic church and New Ageism, you're going to use the word "attack" when somebody is trying to be helpful?

I usually meditate before I go to sleep at night, but the past two nights I had trouble doing so, because it breaks my heart to see where you are at now. It is fine to have love for God and Jesus, but perhaps there is a more balanced way for you to do so. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two about being appreciative towards people who try to be helpful.

The attitude you expressed when you said "attack" isn't any different than when you took offense about people such as myself speaking about channeled sources in a critical way. When you aren't willing to consider a viewpoint that challenges your current way of thinking, you accuse people of attacking you and being argumentative. Supposedly it is okay for you to say things that are contrary to what other people on this forum believe, but when somebody says something that is contradictory to what you believe, you claim that they are being argumentative.


I Am Dude wrote on Apr 28th, 2017 at 4:38pm:
Thanks for the response, it was actually pretty in sync with what my intuition was telling me.

Regarding the post I deleted about how I came to Christ, I was hoping it wouldn't result in an attack or debate, and I'm happy your intention wasn't to shoot me down, although I'm not surprised. The way I see it, how we come to learn the truth of Jesus is rather irrelevant.

I shared my story with my longtime Christian uncle who is very wise and even though he surely didn't share some of the insights that led me to Christ (although he did recognize the widespread Satanism and anti-Christian movement taking place in the world), he had not one negative or argumentative thing to say, but rather told me that it was God who was looking for me this whole time and finally got me in a way which was unique to my own path. Apparently he's seen it happen many times before and to me, it makes sense.

I've actually lost most of my interest in my previous areas of investigation. What you said you want for me is exactly where my interest lies now, although I'm also looking to attain an accurate theological understanding of the Bible, as I think it will bring me even closer to God, although I could be wrong. I totally get and appreciate your motto, but perhaps there is a way to synchronize relationship with Christ with theological understanding?

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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 6:30pm
 

(2) Dave is in our small prayer group, He suffered from a massive blood clot that extended from his ankle to his groin. Doctors expressed the hope that this clot would eventually calcify, removing the risk to his heart. But Dave was advised to limit his movements due to the danger of a piece of clot breaking off and going to his heart or brain. Despite the fact the he was in great pain, he generally ignored this medical advice. Dave and his wife Patty's prayers did nothing to change his condition.

Then one day they ate at Mavericks, a restaurant I can see from my residence. An unknown young couple approached their table, asking, "I hope you don't mind my asking, but do you have a serious physical condition that needs prayer?" Dave was initially taken aback at this intrusion, especially with other customers overhearing the question. Though a tad embarrassed, he told them about the massive clot. They nodded relief, and felt that the "word of knowledge" they had clairvoyantly received was confirmed. Then the couple asked if Dave wanted prayer for his condition. He consented, but was again taken aback, when they prayed loudly for his healing. It turns out the couple were young missionaries about to leave for some African country.

Subsequent X-rays confirmed that Dave was completely healed. Dave realizes he would never have been healed unless God brought the right prayer partners. Nor would he have been healed if his pride prompted him to decline their request to pray for him. So this healing provides a great parallel to Agnes's dilemma at the presumptuous Bible school student's request. Had her pride promoted her to decline the eager young man's offer of prayer, her grandson would in my view never have been healed.

The Bible teaches that there are right and wrong ways to pray, i. e. prayer principles that facilitate a favorable divine intervention and attitudes that inhibit the power of prayer. So here is the giant pink elephant in the church, the question that would be insensitive and inappropriate to ask a seriously ill person: Are some people dead who would be alive if they had either prayed in faith or received prayer from "the right" prayer partners?

Other faith lessons from such testimonies? (1) As in Agnes's case, true humility is a great asset to effective faith. (2) Real faith takes risks, risks I would typically lack the confidence to take. I would have been more polite and prayed quietly--and my prayer would have had no effect. I would have been hedging my bets to prevent myself from looking really bad! I later learned that gifted faith healers do not pray softly in situations like that, because they want the healings to serve as a witness to God's power. (3) The younger generation is jumping out of the windows of mainline churches, because these churches are "holding to the outward form of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid them (2 Timothy 3:5)!" Thus, Paul says of his rivals: "I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power. (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."


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I Am Dude
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 10:28pm
 
Don thanks for sharing that. These types of stories get me teary-eyed and really strengthen my faith and my love for God.

I actually had an insight earlier today that I need to completely abandon my ego and live more fully in a state of faith and praise to God.

When first hearing Jesus' words in the Gospels about the true power prayer has when done in complete faith, I realized how many people lack true faith. I don't want to be one of those people.

Your posts are so very helpful and encouraging Don. Not only have these stories brought tears of joy to my eyes, but my appreciation for you as a person has done the same. You are the recipient of my first blessing prayer, and I expect there will be many more to come my friend. Thank you.
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #7 - Apr 29th, 2017 at 3:03am
 
Thanks Dude.  My next example comes from Jack Deere's fascinating book, "Surprised by the Spirit."  This example opens a new can of worms, but I like it because it serves as a poignant example of issues that are usually discussed biblically and theologically rather than experientially.  The "right prayer partner" in this case (Dr. John White) got his start in the ministry in my home town (Winnipeg) and, as a teenager, I once attended his church there.  At that time, he was apparently not at all "charismatic" in his spiritual orientation. 

(3) Jack Deere was a NT professor at Dallas Seminary and an elder in his church.   A well educated female church member was severely depressed and went to Jack and the elders for prayer. They dutifully prayed, but to my effect. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist, Dr. John White, was about to come as a guest speaker to Jack's church. When the church learned that he had recently become charismatic, they debated whether they should disinvite him! But they let him come and speak. After Dr. White's sermon, the severely depressed woman approached him to request prayer for her severe depression. Dr. White quickly discerned that her depression was caused by an oppressive evil spirit. He quietly rebuked the spirit and set her free! When Jack Deere saw how much more effective Dr. White's prayer was than the prayers of his board of elders, he was devastated. The end result was a conversion to Pentecostal/ charismatic spirituality and an experience of Spirit baptism, complete with the gift of tongues. In this case, Dr. White was the right prayer partner because he was Spirit-filled and thus able to exercise the gift of discernment on the woman's true spiritual condition.
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #8 - May 6th, 2017 at 9:35pm
 
(4) When I was a pastor in NY state, Austin was a quiet teenager who avoided my many discussions on paranormal incidents with his parents. What we didn't know was that Austin had become addicted to certain prescription drugs and had later fathered a child out of wedlock. Then one day, he accepted his friends' dare to go see the movie "Paranormal." Austin was not the horror movie type and it frightened him badly. Soon thereafter, he began to see lights in his closet in his blackened room. He tried to ignore this, but soon psychokinetic experiences began to terrorize him. E.g. His blankets would suddenly be ripped off his bed by an unseen hand. Finally, in desperation he confessed all to his parents.

They invited 2 charismatic Christians who supposedly specialized in deliverance ministry to bless their house and exorcise any demonic presence. This had no effect and the paranormal manifestations continued relentlessly. Then in desperation, the parents called the Catholic church. This step was hard for them because they were not pro-Catholic by any means. The bishop sent a gentle Nigerian priest who, with no histrionics, quietly took command of the nasty spirit presence and successfully exorcised the house. There were no more paranormal manifestations. This Nigerian apparently had had prior experience with African witch doctors (shamans).

I learned about this and met Austin's baby son, when I was asked to return to New York state to perform the wedding ceremony for Austin's brother. I like to share this story with anti-Catholic charismatics who seem to think they have a monopoly on deliverance ministry. Again, the right prayer partner proved decisive.

I am known around here as a debunker of alleged possession cases, because I have had to deal with the harm done by wannabe exorcists who treat ordinary psychopathology and mental illness as cases of possession. Real possession cases are rare and every step must first be taken to find alternative explanations of the aberrant behavior and phenomena. Still, my family has encountered and dealt with a couple of dramatic possession cases in a convincing way, but only a couple in my lifetime. Again, the right prayer partner was essential.
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Reply #9 - May 6th, 2017 at 11:46pm
 
  My, the forum has become like a Hollow Heaven belief system of late, where believers will only talk to each other. This is exactly what happens in these levels.   

  The first defense against expanded truth, is to try to shut out perceptions, opinions, experiences, beliefs, etc that differ from one's own or the groups.
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #10 - May 7th, 2017 at 9:45pm
 
Thanks for sharing that last one Don. Hearing legit testimonies of possession cases similar to the one you shared was one of the things that made me realize the true power of Jesus Christ.

It makes me think of the idea of spiritual warfare and if we Christians should play a more proactive role. I've heard that engaging in spiritual warfare can lead to problems. I wonder if it would be appropriate to rebuke demons in the name of Jesus Christ when you have the feeling that a friend or family member is under some level of influence, although nothing as serious as possession.
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #11 - May 8th, 2017 at 5:30pm
 
Justin:

Sometimes you can see what people are about more by their actions, than by their words. When Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself," he meant "EVERYBODY" not just people who believe like you.

Perhaps Bruce received information about hollow heavens, because the love-based beings that communicated with him understand how difficult it can be to reason with people who take on an extreme, book-based approach to their spirituality.

I do not believe for a second that Jesus came to this world so that people would some day end up using his words, as presented in a book, to create a psychological prison that they are afraid to question.

I do not believe that people who present spirituality in a rigid way, are doing God, Jesus, or anybody else any favors.



Quote:
  My, the forum has become like a Hollow Heaven belief system of late, where believers will only talk to each other. This is exactly what happens in these levels.   

  The first defense against expanded truth, is to try to shut out perceptions, opinions, experiences, beliefs, etc that differ from one's own or the groups. 

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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #12 - May 9th, 2017 at 12:28pm
 
Don

I've been a bit conflicted regarding prayer. Maybe you could help shed some light.

I'm trying to resolve the issue of praying with selfish motives vs prayer surrendering completely to the will of God. In the "right prayer partner" cases you've shared in this thread, it seems the answered prayers came from individuals who were not personally vested in the situation. I'm wondering if their prayers would have had the same outcome had the situations been of a more personal nature in which there was a level of emotional attachment involved.

You've mentioned praying in the Spirit. Can this be done for things that would be to one's own advantage? I've raised some specific examples in my thread Addressing God in Prayer.

I'm thinking that perhaps if one petitions for something that is in one's own favor, but in a way which is accepting of the will of God regardless of the outcome, this could be an effective merging of the individual's will with God's.

Thanks!
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #13 - May 9th, 2017 at 2:07pm
 
  This self tries to pray/live in the manner of "Not my will be done, but the Will of the purely Creative Forces be done."  Sometimes I ask to be shown, in a conscious manner, what that Will is, (usually adding, "if it's spiritually helpful for self or others"). 

  There are and have been times where I've prayed in the manner of "If this follows the Will of the purely Creative Forces, may it be done." 

   Either one, is still seeking to be led by the purely Creative Forces.  What does that mean?  Purely Creative Forces is short hand for a combo of the Creator and the collective of Spirits and Souls that are fully one, in a fully conscious sense, with the Creator and the Whole.  These are all like Yeshua.  Howard Storm called them "Angels", I call them Co-Creators.  They are full companions with the Creator and completely know and live the Creator's general Will and primary essence, which is that of pure, Universal, unconditional Love. (these are all still individuals and sometimes have slightly different ideas or approaches in a relative sense). 

   I didn't always pray and try to live like this.  Here is a good example of how self became astray for awhile in not praying and living like this.  When I was much younger, I started to get intuitive downloads about various different things--one of which dealt with major changes that were coming to the world. 

   I became, for a long time, overly obsessed with these changes, what they were, what they meant, why they were happening, and when they were going to happen. 

  For a time, I was also influenced by a negative ET group here and there. Just as my spouse saw in a dream, that I was influenced by these at times in Kemet.

    I became overly obsessed with trying to figure out the exact when's of these changes and I thought it was important that this be communicated to others. Mainly, I wanted to give people a fighting chance, to be able to prepare.  Never thinking or realizing, the right people will be given the right info at the right time!

  I've since learned that the purely Creative Forces do not want this information of more specific whats and when's to be given out for one, and that two--the future is relative according to both individual and collective use of our Spiritual Will.  The exact timing and nature of such changes is always at least, somewhat in flux. That flux might just be a span of days or weeks of a difference at this point, but it's still in flux.  Meaning, even yet, there is no one specific day it's narrowed down too. 

  The reason that the purely Creative Forces do not want more specific information to be put out about the more narrowed down timing of these changes is because these changes are partly about taking out the psychopathic plutocrats that overly influence, and help to keep this world/humanity stuck. 

   As we now know, they through others, collect ALL digital and electronic communication--emails, phone calls, forum posts, etc, etc.  To be sure, there are individual humans they pay more attention than others, and whom they collect information about in not just a meta data way as they do for all, but also in a more focused, specific way.  Humans that show real psychic and predictive abilities.  For example, a person who has gone to The Monroe Institute and during the remote viewing session, got all the main features of the target, or whom an ex military remote viewer payed attention too for various reasons. 

  Anyways, what the Creative Forces told this self not long ago, is that they don't want the psychopathic plutocrats to have specific advanced warning of these changes coming, and so they give out information to people in very selective and often more generalized ways. 

  The irony is, now that I've been praying and living in the manner of "Not my will, but the Will of the purely Creative Forces be done", for the first time in my life, I've received some very clear and more narrowed down guidance about the timing and nature of these changes that will collapse America and to a lesser extent the world. 

Whereas before, I was somewhat guessing and trying to use my intuition to feel it out and narrow it down and based partly on more overt but generalized messages, and was plain wrong a few times on the timing. 

  I'm not allowed to share publicly what has been shared with me.  The few people that I've talked to about these recent messages, I do so under controlled conditions (in person, phones enclosed in sound absorbing material, music on, etc) and even then, I keep it somewhat more general as to timing.  I also ask them to keep it under wraps. 

  My spouse also has been having some very specific dreams lately about these things, and I've talked to her about the importance of not just blabbing this info out and to keep it under wraps.  It is the Creative Forces' hopes and intents that as many of these psychopathic plutocrats will be taken out of body as can be when the time comes. 

  To be sure, some of them (the true rulers behind the scenes and governments) desire and look for more narrowed down, specific timing, which is becoming more possible as we are getting close to the culmination/crescendo. But nobody that works for them, consciously or unconsciously-- remote viewers, various psychics, intelligence community, etc is being allowed access to clear and accurate data as to more specific timing and nature. 

Mums the word and for a deeper and very important purpose. It's hoped (and worked towards) that the majority of people that survive, are more towards the helper end of the spectrum than the hindering. 

  Just one of the various things I've learned as I've started to pray and live in the above manner.   

   
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Re: The Right Prayer Partner
Reply #14 - May 9th, 2017 at 2:37pm
 
  In a more general and brief sense, which relates to the above more holistic post:  I've found that the more that self grows in and attunes to Love, the more my perception and understanding, becomes more clear, expanded, balanced, accurate, helpful.

  There is an ever present direct correlation between how we are at a being level, our "quality" of consciousness, and the level of distortion within our perception and understanding. 

  Because this self has not yet reached the zenith--full attunement to Christ/Oneness Consciousness, self still has inaccuracy, distortion, and muddied perception and understanding to a relative degree. (Part of this is connection to a dense, human animal body and part is because this Soul is not yet vibrating only at the pure White Light, the most expanded/fastest vibratory level).

   This is a universal truth that applies to all humans and all beings/individuals within the larger Being that is the Creator (and in our case, within It's Son, the Light whom Co-Created the patterns behind/within this entire Universe). 

There is no getting around this, except through the exercise of one's spiritual Will towards more and more Love based choices, interaction, and livingness.  The purely Creative Forces may at times, help to uplift an individual so that temporarily they can see much more clearly and in an expanded way than they would normally, but again, these are temporary.  (This happens during every "Life review" btw, where the Elders aka Co-Creators, through the radiation of their very expanded, clear, undistorted Consciousness and presence, help to "lift up" (in a sense) a Soul to temporarily perceive the Soul's human life from their perspective, and thus can awareness and encouragement to change for the better can be sparked within that still stuck, uncompleted Soul). 

   
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