Do you think it was Agnes herself who was wrong for the job, or was the problem in her attitude and approach which, if modified to replicate the student's, would have resulted in the same outcome that the young man achieved?

Thanks for the response, it was actually pretty in sync with what my intuition was telling me.

Regarding the post I deleted about how I came to Christ, I was hoping it wouldn't result in an attack or debate, and I'm happy your intention wasn't to shoot me down, although I'm not surprised. The way I see it, how we come to learn the truth of Jesus is rather irrelevant.

I shared my story with my longtime Christian uncle who is very wise and even though he surely didn't share some of the insights that led me to Christ (although he did recognize the widespread Satanism and anti-Christian movement taking place in the world), he had not one negative or argumentative thing to say, but rather told me that it was God who was looking for me this whole time and finally got me in a way which was unique to my own path. Apparently he's seen it happen many times before and to me, it makes sense.

I've actually lost most of my interest in my previous areas of investigation. What you said you want for me is exactly where my interest lies now, although I'm also looking to attain an accurate theological understanding of the Bible, as I think it will bring me even closer to God, although I could be wrong. I totally get and appreciate your motto, but perhaps there is a way to synchronize relationship with Christ with theological understanding?

(2) Dave is in our small prayer group, He suffered from a massive blood clot that extended from his ankle to his groin. Doctors expressed the hope that this clot would eventually calcify, removing the risk to his heart. But Dave was advised to limit his movements due to the danger of a piece of clot breaking off and going to his heart or brain. Despite the fact the he was in great pain, he generally ignored this medical advice. Dave and his wife Patty's prayers did nothing to change his condition.

Then one day they ate at Mavericks, a restaurant I can see from my residence. An unknown young couple approached their table, asking, "I hope you don't mind my asking, but do you have a serious physical condition that needs prayer?" Dave was initially taken aback at this intrusion, especially with other customers overhearing the question. Though a tad embarrassed, he told them about the massive clot. They nodded relief, and felt that the "word of knowledge" they had clairvoyantly received was confirmed. Then the couple asked if Dave wanted prayer for his condition. He consented, but was again taken aback, when they prayed loudly for his healing. It turns out the couple were young missionaries about to leave for some African country.

Subsequent X-rays confirmed that Dave was completely healed. Dave realizes he would never have been healed unless God brought the right prayer partners. Nor would he have been healed if his pride prompted him to decline their request to pray for him. So this healing provides a great parallel to Agnes's dilemma at the presumptuous Bible school student's request. Had her pride promoted her to decline the eager young man's offer of prayer, her grandson would in my view never have been healed.

The Bible teaches that there are right and wrong ways to pray, i. e. prayer principles that facilitate a favorable divine intervention and attitudes that inhibit the power of prayer. So here is the giant pink elephant in the church, the question that would be insensitive and inappropriate to ask a seriously ill person: Are some people dead who would be alive if they had either prayed in faith or received prayer from "the right" prayer partners?

Other faith lessons from such testimonies? (1) As in Agnes's case, true humility is a great asset to effective faith. (2) Real faith takes risks, risks I would typically lack the confidence to take. I would have been more polite and prayed quietly--and my prayer would have had no effect. I would have been hedging my bets to prevent myself from looking really bad! I later learned that gifted faith healers do not pray softly in situations like that, because they want the healings to serve as a witness to God's power. (3) The younger generation is jumping out of the windows of mainline churches, because these churches are "holding to the outward form of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid them (2 Timothy 3:5)!" Thus, Paul says of his rivals: "I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power. (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

Thanks Dude.  My next example comes from Jack Deere's fascinating book, "Surprised by the Spirit."  This example opens a new can of worms, but I like it because it serves as a poignant example of issues that are usually discussed biblically and theologically rather than experientially.  The "right prayer partner" in this case (Dr. John White) got his start in the ministry in my home town (Winnipeg) and, as a teenager, I once attended his church there.  At that time, he was apparently not at all "charismatic" in his spiritual orientation. 

(3) Jack Deere was a NT professor at Dallas Seminary and an elder in his church.   A well educated female church member was severely depressed and went to Jack and the elders for prayer. They dutifully prayed, but to my effect. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist, Dr. John White, was about to come as a guest speaker to Jack's church. When the church learned that he had recently become charismatic, they debated whether they should disinvite him! But they let him come and speak. After Dr. White's sermon, the severely depressed woman approached him to request prayer for her severe depression. Dr. White quickly discerned that her depression was caused by an oppressive evil spirit. He quietly rebuked the spirit and set her free! When Jack Deere saw how much more effective Dr. White's prayer was than the prayers of his board of elders, he was devastated. The end result was a conversion to Pentecostal/ charismatic spirituality and an experience of Spirit baptism, complete with the gift of tongues. In this case, Dr. White was the right prayer partner because he was Spirit-filled and thus able to exercise the gift of discernment on the woman's true spiritual condition.

  My, the forum has become like a Hollow Heaven belief system of late, where believers will only talk to each other. This is exactly what happens in these levels.   

  The first defense against expanded truth, is to try to shut out perceptions, opinions, experiences, beliefs, etc that differ from one's own or the groups.

Justin:

Sometimes you can see what people are about more by their actions, than by their words. When Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself," he meant "EVERYBODY" not just people who believe like you.

Perhaps Bruce received information about hollow heavens, because the love-based beings that communicated with him understand how difficult it can be to reason with people who take on an extreme, book-based approach to their spirituality.

I do not believe for a second that Jesus came to this world so that people would some day end up using his words, as presented in a book, to create a psychological prison that they are afraid to question.

I do not believe that people who present spirituality in a rigid way, are doing God, Jesus, or anybody else any favors.



Quote:

  This self tries to pray/live in the manner of "Not my will be done, but the Will of the purely Creative Forces be done."  Sometimes I ask to be shown, in a conscious manner, what that Will is, (usually adding, "if it's spiritually helpful for self or others"). 

  There are and have been times where I've prayed in the manner of "If this follows the Will of the purely Creative Forces, may it be done." 

   Either one, is still seeking to be led by the purely Creative Forces.  What does that mean?  Purely Creative Forces is short hand for a combo of the Creator and the collective of Spirits and Souls that are fully one, in a fully conscious sense, with the Creator and the Whole.  These are all like Yeshua.  Howard Storm called them "Angels", I call them Co-Creators.  They are full companions with the Creator and completely know and live the Creator's general Will and primary essence, which is that of pure, Universal, unconditional Love. (these are all still individuals and sometimes have slightly different ideas or approaches in a relative sense). 

   I didn't always pray and try to live like this.  Here is a good example of how self became astray for awhile in not praying and living like this.  When I was much younger, I started to get intuitive downloads about various different things--one of which dealt with major changes that were coming to the world. 

   I became, for a long time, overly obsessed with these changes, what they were, what they meant, why they were happening, and when they were going to happen. 

  For a time, I was also influenced by a negative ET group here and there. Just as my spouse saw in a dream, that I was influenced by these at times in Kemet.

    I became overly obsessed with trying to figure out the exact when's of these changes and I thought it was important that this be communicated to others. Mainly, I wanted to give people a fighting chance, to be able to prepare.  Never thinking or realizing, the right people will be given the right info at the right time!

  I've since learned that the purely Creative Forces do not want this information of more specific whats and when's to be given out for one, and that two--the future is relative according to both individual and collective use of our Spiritual Will.  The exact timing and nature of such changes is always at least, somewhat in flux. That flux might just be a span of days or weeks of a difference at this point, but it's still in flux.  Meaning, even yet, there is no one specific day it's narrowed down too. 

  The reason that the purely Creative Forces do not want more specific information to be put out about the more narrowed down timing of these changes is because these changes are partly about taking out the psychopathic plutocrats that overly influence, and help to keep this world/humanity stuck. 

   As we now know, they through others, collect ALL digital and electronic communication--emails, phone calls, forum posts, etc, etc.  To be sure, there are individual humans they pay more attention than others, and whom they collect information about in not just a meta data way as they do for all, but also in a more focused, specific way.  Humans that show real psychic and predictive abilities.  For example, a person who has gone to The Monroe Institute and during the remote viewing session, got all the main features of the target, or whom an ex military remote viewer payed attention too for various reasons. 

  Anyways, what the Creative Forces told this self not long ago, is that they don't want the psychopathic plutocrats to have specific advanced warning of these changes coming, and so they give out information to people in very selective and often more generalized ways. 

  The irony is, now that I've been praying and living in the manner of "Not my will, but the Will of the purely Creative Forces be done", for the first time in my life, I've received some very clear and more narrowed down guidance about the timing and nature of these changes that will collapse America and to a lesser extent the world. 

Whereas before, I was somewhat guessing and trying to use my intuition to feel it out and narrow it down and based partly on more overt but generalized messages, and was plain wrong a few times on the timing. 

  I'm not allowed to share publicly what has been shared with me.  The few people that I've talked to about these recent messages, I do so under controlled conditions (in person, phones enclosed in sound absorbing material, music on, etc) and even then, I keep it somewhat more general as to timing.  I also ask them to keep it under wraps. 

  My spouse also has been having some very specific dreams lately about these things, and I've talked to her about the importance of not just blabbing this info out and to keep it under wraps.  It is the Creative Forces' hopes and intents that as many of these psychopathic plutocrats will be taken out of body as can be when the time comes. 

  To be sure, some of them (the true rulers behind the scenes and governments) desire and look for more narrowed down, specific timing, which is becoming more possible as we are getting close to the culmination/crescendo. But nobody that works for them, consciously or unconsciously-- remote viewers, various psychics, intelligence community, etc is being allowed access to clear and accurate data as to more specific timing and nature. 

Mums the word and for a deeper and very important purpose. It's hoped (and worked towards) that the majority of people that survive, are more towards the helper end of the spectrum than the hindering. 

  Just one of the various things I've learned as I've started to pray and live in the above manner.