Conversation Board - What is Truth or Absolute Truth?

Alan McDougall

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #15 - May 18^th, 2016 at 3:04pm

heisenberg69 wrote on May 17^th, 2016 at 11:38am:

A very interesting but challenging question. If we define absolute truth as something which is true regardless of time and place then that rules out most things we normally regard as true.For example the Mosaic law injunction 'Thou shall not kill' would seem pretty absolute but of course many societies have decided to kill in certain circumstances is perfectly acceptable: in war, against certain criminals, the terminally sick, the unwanted unborn etc . so it cannot be an absolute rule or truth.

I would suggest that we cannot prove an absolute truth scientifically or mathematically (aside from tautologies such as 2+2=4). Also any written word (such as the Bible) was written by a specific people at a specific place, often with a specific agenda. So can anything pass the absolute truth test? One candidate I would put forward as an absolute truth is that 'We are all One'.But if we look at the world that would seem that is far from the case at an everyday level with all the fighting and warfare going on. So I would suggest that 'absolute truths' can only be known intuitively at some deep level, not intellectually known, particularly when one experiences an expanded state of consciousness such as an NDE or OBE. Not a very satisfactory answer I know but the best I can come up on the hoof!

The absolute truth I was getting at, was a moral, ethical or philosophical absolute. Obviously not a mathematical truth like 2+2=4 which is always absolutely true and easy to find!

(I do not find absolute truth in the books of religion or in any religious dogma or fundamentalist exclusivity)

Alan

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The truth remains the truth, no matter what we think the truth is, the truth is the truth regardless

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Gman

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #16 - May 19^th, 2016 at 12:01am

Alan McDougall wrote on May 18^th, 2016 at 4:37am:

Gman wrote on May 17^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

rondele wrote on May 17^th, 2016 at 6:46pm:

On the other hand, there might not be an absolute truth. The word absolute implies fixed. Maybe everything is in constant flux. Even the universe itself is said to be contracting.

Maybe change is the absolute truth. Or then again, maybe not. As seagull says, it's probably inexpressible.

R

Hello Rondele. Your quote, ""Even the universe itself is said to be contracting."....I viewed a documentary a few years ago that said the universe is expanding, and that some time in the future it will begin contracting back on itself someday. I think they were talking about millions or billions of years time when this contraction would start. Here is a link to support my post on this matter. http://www.space.com/52-the-expanding-universe-from-the-big-bang-to-today.html

The very latest fact on the expansion of the universe is that it is accelerating faster and faster and will never fall back on itself. This expansion is being driven by that strange force 'Dark Energy.

As it continues to expand its state of entropy increases until the entropic state of the universe become infinite and it reaches heat death in an unimaginably far distant future that we do not need to worry about at all.

Sadly,our physical universe is finite it had a beginning at the big bang and will have an end when it reaches absolute zero and total dark emptiness trillions of years from now.

Blessings

Alan

Hi Alan. I didn't know that our universe would take that long to extinguish itself..Thanks for that!

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rondele Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 181 Virginia Gender:	Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth? Reply #17 - May 19^th, 2016 at 12:16pm http://cosmictimes.gsfc.nasa.gov/online_edition/1919Cosmic/universe.html Also check out a physicist named Wetterich. He presents a different view on the universe. Truth is, we really don't know. R
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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #18 - May 19^th, 2016 at 5:50pm

rondele wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

http://cosmictimes.gsfc.nasa.gov/online_edition/1919Cosmic/universe.html

Also check out a physicist named Wetterich. He presents a different view on the universe.

Truth is, we really don't know.

R

I know when Albert Einstein was asked if he believed in God he said "he believed in the God of Spinoza" Spinoza's God was the type of God that created the universe and then let it run itself without interfering with it or what happened in it or too it he/it after he had nothing further to do with it!

Maybe an ant farm could be a good comparison, we make one and after that just enjoy looking what the little guys do, without interfering!

Spinoza was an Deist, however, in reality, Einstein was an atheist and did not really believe in any creator.

Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the universe, but does not interfere with His creation.

Einstein was an Atheist when he made the comment "I believe in the God of Spinoza", what he meant is that if he did believe in a God, he would believe in the God of Spinoza!

As far as absolute truth goes, an absolute cannot be qualified or diminished!

it is absolutely true that everyone will die someday!

Alan

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« Last Edit: May 19^th, 2016 at 7:09pm by Alan McDougall »

The truth remains the truth, no matter what we think the truth is, the truth is the truth regardless

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seagull

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #19 - May 19^th, 2016 at 7:21pm

Alan McDougall wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 5:50pm:

rondele wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

http://cosmictimes.gsfc.nasa.gov/online_edition/1919Cosmic/universe.html

Also check out a physicist named Wetterich. He presents a different view on the universe.

Truth is, we really don't know.

R

I know when Albert Einstein was asked if he believed in God he said "he believed in the God of Spinoza" Spinoza's God was the type of God that created the universe and then let it run itself without interfering with it or what happened in it or too it he/it after he had nothing further to do with it!

Maybe an ant farm could be a good comparison, we make one and after that just enjoy looking what the little guys do, without interfering!

Spinoza was an Deist, however, in reality, Einstein was an atheist and did not really believe in any creator.

Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the universe, but does not interfere with His creation.

Einstein was an Atheist when he made the comment "I believe in the God of Spinoza", what he meant is that if he did believe in a God, he would believe in the God of Spinoza!

As far as absolute truth goes, an absolute cannot be qualified or diminished!

it is absolutely true that everyone will die someday!

Alan

It may be just as absolutely true to say that everyone will live someday...

It is true that many people who report a near death experience are quite surprised to find themselves suddenly outside of their bodies. It seems to them that they still have a body, if they bother to think about it and check into it. So, to them, it seems that they are just as alive as ever but, at the time, no one here (for the most part) can feel their presence.

All the certainties we have in this world are simply not the same in the next.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #20 - May 20^th, 2016 at 10:51pm

Quote:

Alan McDougall wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 5:50pm:

rondele wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 12:16pm:

http://cosmictimes.gsfc.nasa.gov/online_edition/1919Cosmic/universe.html

Also check out a physicist named Wetterich. He presents a different view on the universe.

Truth is, we really don't know.

R

I know when Albert Einstein was asked if he believed in God he said "he believed in the God of Spinoza" Spinoza's God was the type of God that created the universe and then let it run itself without interfering with it or what happened in it or too it he/it after he had nothing further to do with it!

Maybe an ant farm could be a good comparison, we make one and after that just enjoy looking what the little guys do, without interfering!

Spinoza was an Deist, however, in reality, Einstein was an atheist and did not really believe in any creator.

Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the universe, but does not interfere with His creation.

Einstein was an Atheist when he made the comment "I believe in the God of Spinoza", what he meant is that if he did believe in a God, he would believe in the God of Spinoza!

As far as absolute truth goes, an absolute cannot be qualified or diminished!

it is absolutely true that everyone will die someday!

Alan

It may be just as absolutely true to say that everyone will live someday...

It is true that many people who report a near death experience are quite surprised to find themselves suddenly outside of their bodies. It seems to them that they still have a body, if they bother to think about it and check into it. So, to them, it seems that they are just as alive as ever but, at the time, no one here (for the most part) can feel their presence.

All the certainties we have in this world are simply not the same in the next.

Of course everybody that it exists will exist, that is circular logic.

Absolute Truth remains absolute truth, no matter where you exist.

I am not talking about certainties, because nothing is certainties in this world or the next and that has nothing to do with the concept of absolute truth!

Alan

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The truth remains the truth, no matter what we think the truth is, the truth is the truth regardless

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seagull

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Re: What is Truth or Absolute Truth?
Reply #21 - May 21^st, 2016 at 9:15am

I wasn't using circular logic. I was speaking about all people, those who are here in this world, and those who are in the next.

We perceive that people 'die' here. When we reach the next world our point of view will be very different. In the next world perhaps we will consider that those who have crossed over have just been born. Or just been cultivated in a hothouse and our flowers are being shown to others. People seem to be welcomed there and taken to places in which they can heal, have instruction, be with people they love in a million different ways, experience fantastic things, etc.

I'm sure you can at least open-mindedly consider the thought that many people are unaware of crossing over. What they are aware of is their presence in a new world that is very different from this one.

I am not going to try to go into more detail about I just said. It is probably clear enough to anyone who wants to understand it in the way that I said it.

Additionally, this may be off the topic, but it is quiet here at the moment, isn't it?

If life extension becomes serious here and people live extraordinarily long lives in the future, it would be interesting to see how the transition to an afterlife would be viewed. It could become an event without such an experience of loss if people had a rational view toward the afterlife, and knew that we all have plenty of time, no matter where we are.

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