There are very few people who post on this forum any more.  Recently, a number of posts have come by warning people against exploring consciousness and the afterlife.  Stating that evil is lurking out there, or worse yet, damnation from the almighty, with biblical references and all.  And what anyone can see in the posts from these people are two irrefutable facts; the first is that they are afraid.  They are frightened and in trying to understand what has been discussed and explored, they choose fear over understanding.  The second obvious fact about those who warn everyone about exploration, is that the fearful ones are not really exploring themselves.  It is the blind leading the blind. 

And what is even more clear, is that the whole notion of evil lurking in every meditation, in every attempt to explore is nonsense.  Countless people have tried, and while few are adept astral travelers, most have positive experiences.  You see, while your intellect may be led astray, your spiritual body, the force of love you share, makes you resonate for lack of a better term at a frequency.  Ill meaning and low level entities may try to bring your thinking and emotions down to their level, but since they are on such a different level as most good people, there is usually no sway that negatives will have over anyone, unless you willingly relinquish your thought and power to them.

Many explorers have commented that those on hellish planes can not visit higher planes at will.  They see as if nothing is present there.  Also, the feelings of love and good intention is distinctly uncomfortable for them.  Like attracts like in spirit and the afterlife. 

The mind body connection of each of us, the "silver cord" we have, is as close to an unbreakable bond as there can be in the universe (until our physical bodies perish). 

Most sources do recommend setting intention prior to any exploration, which may invoke protection for the highest good.  Intention so set usually has a powerful effect on getting assistance and having an experience which is positive. 

But it would be wrong to read the handful of posts of late and conclude that exploration is evil, and should be avoided at all costs.  Is discernment necessary?  Yes.  Is it wise to believe everything on face value?  Of course not.  But the fear and fire and brimstone written about is not warranted.

M

DocM wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:


Doc it is easy for you to make suggestions about the safety of OOBE but you have never experienced one yourself and  thus, you are disqualified in commenting on them as some sort of an expert, which you are not!!.

Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist or priest or mystic that you can tell from the other side of the world whether a person is afraid or has a real reason to be afraid or just blowing off hot air to irritate others.?

I know you are referring to me and you have no way of knowing what is really going on in my mind unless you become a world-class telepath which I know you are not

-----------------------------------------------------------

There is terrible danger in the OOBE event such as what happened to me below.


Start of experiences as an adult

Out of body experience on afternoon at Vaal Power Station

At about the age of twenty-seven, at Vaal Power station (where I worked at the time), in the afternoon at about 3 pm my wife and I were having a nap and instead of going to sleep as I expected,

I entered a cataleptic state that I now know is Hypnagogic sleep. In other words, I was unable to move my body (sleep paralysis).

I was aware of my surroundings and that I was laying on the bed next to my wife. Then in the area of my head, an extreme vibration and buzzing began to shake my whole body. I tried and tried to move to no avail at first, and then something weird began to happen.

I found myself (Awareness/consciousness) hovering just below the ceilings, looking down on the bodies of my wife and can still remember the red bed cover. That indicates some sort of mind- sight.

I did not like this experience, feeling some sort of a malicious/malignant type of evil being was watching me all the time.

in addition, the vibration and buzzing were very unpleasant. However, this sleep paralysis vibration started to happen more and more spontaneously until in another spontaneous OOBE I found myself outside the house one night looking up at the stars.

My consciousness awareness seemed to have separated from my sleeping body. I then began to take a real interest in this phenomenon and was lead to read a book by Robert Monroe and found the term then used was astral travel.

OOBE'S was considered evil or even by my then Christian friends who advised me to stop as my vacant body could be possessed by an evil entity while I was travelling into other realities

I did not interact with those who have passed on but appeared to remain within the material realities. However, I did experience some frightening things, such as coming back in horror to the wrong body.

This person was in a small prison cell somewhere and I really got a fright and immediately found myself back in my own body.

At times, I seemed to have dual awareness in that I became somehow two beings, my sleeping self-communicating with my ethereal self.

Another time I found myself inside the body of a man, who was in the process of being murdered by a knife blade, I felt it go into my body and experiences such horrible pain and realised to my utter horror that I was actually dying?

Taking their advice, I stopped trying to exit the body when the catatonic sleep paralysis came at night and eventually these experienced ceased for many years.

Later again I started to have other spontaneously experience all types of other .

If unfriendly influences exist, you don't have to go out of body in order to be influenced by them.

If you keep your house (self) clean and use your discrimination, you should be okay. This is so regardless of whether or not you make contact with the spirit world in some way.

Say you do something as basic as meditate with the intent of trying to experience divine love and peace. The way I view it, when you connect to such a level of being, you connect to the world of spirit, even if you don't become conscious of the presence of spirit beings in some way.

The source of everything, God if you like, is not separate from divine love.  Therefore, if you experience divine love and therefore that energy level, you connect to God and all who abide with him.

I believe it would be a mistake to avoid such a connection, because we are afraid of unfriendly influences. If we want to open up to our spirit selves and their connection to God, then we can't let unfriendly influences prevent us from opening up to the spirit level of our being.

A number of years ago I was meditating one night and it felt like my awareness would really expand, but I was afraid to expand in such a way, because I was concerned that I would make contact with unfriendly beings. Then I experienced myself in like a Costco (discount store) and people with empty shopping carts blocked my way. I didn't get the meaning right away, but then I understood. The empty shopping carts were symbols for hungry ghosts. Unfriendly influences are hungry for the energy of others because they have cut themselves off from the source of all energy. What is the point of being afraid of beings who have cut themselve off from the source of all energy, when you are connected to such source? The more wholeheartedly you connect yourself to such source (God), the less you need to be afraid of unfriendly influences.

I agree with both Matthew and Albert.  It is true that, as FDR once said, the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself.  Fear is the enemy.  Fear is what prevents you from being all that you can be.  Fear causes confusion, uncertainty and disorder.  Fear is NEVER helpful other than for showing us the difference between the meanings of fear and love. 

Most of us understand fear very well, but what we don't seem to get is that as long as you have a lot of fear within, you most likely will not be able to explore the non-physical anyway, or if someone that is fearful does manage to have an oobe the experience is most likely to only provide them with positive results as a way to "wake" them up, by giving them a beneficial experience, not one to their own detriment, because that is how the consciousness system works.  It works for its own profitability.  It is evolving, not de-evolving.

Most people think from a little picture perspective, or from the bottom up, and not from a big picture perspective, or the top down.  None of us is truly separated from our Soul (higher self, true self) or from God. NEVER!  It is only from this little ELS perspective that we believe we are separate and that is intended so we can interact with each other.  In fact, we all are oob right now.  Our thoughts and our consciousness is non-physical.  Thoughts and consciousness are not created by the brain, they are beyond the physical and only constrained by the brain and the conditions set forth in our physicality as sentient beings. 

In truth we are our Soul, which is only a teeny bit of our earthly consciousness.  We are never disconnected or separated.  Your Soul is you and you are your Soul at all times, especially when you are aware of being out of body.  Your human consciousness is always protected by your Soul consciousness.  If the Soul consciousness allows for you to have an experience with say a "negative being" or the perception of a negative being, then it may be testing you to see how ready you are to explore the non-physical, though everyone does go out of body not only while sleeping, but while participating in everyday tasks.  Anytime you are not aware of your body, you are out of body, most often you are multitasking with a part of your consciousness "here" and another part "there" and not even aware of it because it is a natural process.  And that is what needs to be stressed.  It is a natural process!

Out of body experience is very natural and very normal.  It is not something to be feared.  You are always safe, even when you think you're not.  Your fear will limit your ability to go very far in exploring the non-physical, however.  And that's a shame because there is so much we can do to help each other when we're able to maintain a higher point of consciousness for longer periods of time.

K

Perhaps this forum needs to burn some sage. 

Quote:

It's fascinating how my concerns about afterlife exploration have morphed into people thinking I'm expressing fear of such ventures.  Nowhere did I express fear.  To reiterate, my concerns have to do with people who are not prepared for the kind of experiences they might have, or the entities they might encounter.  For someone with emotional instabilities of one kind or another, such experiences may very well be traumatic and have long lasting effects.

That was, and is, my concern. It has nothing to do with fear of the afterlife.  I suspect that's why Swedenborg cautioned others not to attempt to do what he did.  Not everyone is able to distinguish between what is real and what is a deliberate attempt to deceive.  And as most of us know, ES warned that the afterlife is full of deception.  It's not something to be taken lightly.

R

Roger,

I noted the fear that had entered into the forum.  The talk was fearful, almost suggesting that it may be too dangerous to explore, and the nonsense that we should be afraid if we were seeking answers...afraid of a wrathful God.  Ridiculous words from some folks wracked by their own fears and belief systems.  And normally, I would not have spoken up, as I haven't been active here in a while.  But it struck me that this once brilliant forum might be read by Newbies and that these words might scare them away.  If people look back in the topics over the years here, there is a lot of useful, insightful information into the nature of consciousness and our ability to explore it to understand what it means to be human.

The afterlife is consciousness.  The physical life is consciousness.  The "I am" is present in different planes.  The warnings that an unstable mind might get into peril is, to a large part overstated, and not supported by evidence.

Most exploration of consciousness takes the ability to relax, into deep meditative states in a way that an anxious, depressed or bipolar/manic mind can not readily achieve.  Thus, the very people who you worry about falling prey to evil doers, would likely not reach a state of "mind awake, body asleep" that is associated with a launch into other states of consciousness.  It took me weeks of practice to get to Focus 12 and similar states, even before exploring further. 

My contention is that most exploration is quite safe and that our natural ties to our physical body are among the most secure connection (hence our ability to leave the body during sleep and return every morning without fail).  I also feel quite certain that on most higher planes of consciousness, ill meaning entities can't bother us as we are at different levels of vibration/frequency 

That being said, certain communication such as EVP, mediums, and ouija boards allow lower level communications into the physical world.  As such, these communications should be viewed with the understanding that deception is more common when you are relying on an intermediary source.

Roger, I did not mean to imply that you personally are afraid of the afterlife.  I just saw a trend.  For me, the forum was always at its strongest when the conversations explored the nature of who and what we are; the nature of love, and how knowledge we gathered from exploring could be taken back into our every day lives.  The fear based ramblings and negative smears against Swedenborg, Bruce and others appeared to be backward, closed minded drivel.  To hear you, who I have always respected, chime in with an "amen" to those threads was a real shock to me. 

N

DocM wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 11:48pm:


Is this Rondele's offensive "amen" to which you refer, fourth post down, to some comments on the Lord's Prayer?:

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1454149444/6

I made the second post on that thread, which was one of those that Rondele responded to, and although I am reasonably experienced in consciously leaving the body, I have also made comments about a need for right motive, right personal conditioning, and caution. I have even put such an advice in my signature, which I hope is helpful to some, even if it irritates others. So are you talking about me, Doctor?

Some people have responded to Alan's fear-based posts, but he wrote so many--how many times should a person respond?

This subject reminds me of what happens with some near death experience accounts on youtube. Some people describe wonderful experiences where they experienced vast unconditional love. But if they don't say anyting about Jesus, some fundamentalist Christian's will comment that such NDErs were fooled by Satan.

Such fundamentalists are so entrapped by their fear, that they don't seem ask themselves how a being such as Satan could share vast unconditional love with people.  If such a being existed, he would radiate hate, anger and an evil feeling, not divine love. If you go by the Bible, Jesus said that you will know them by their fruits. Unconditional love is a wonderful fruit.

DocM wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

recoverer wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 12:43pm:


  Ah, touche pussy-gato.  Sage me up, love the smell of sage!

DocM wrote on Mar 30^th, 2016 at 7:45am:


There is a real way to explore the afterlife, as a factual experience is to die or kill yourself.

Of course, then you cannot come back and tell anyone and therein, lies our dilemma??

Bruces stuff about disc levels are just the invention of his imagination and do not exist in this or any other reality.

It is wrong, even fraudulent to claim your imagined fiction is fact and make a good living out of it, like Bruce does, with innocent gullible people who are desperate for ultimate truth.

He should qualify everything he writes in his many nonsensical obscure books. Or set a disclaimer on all his stuff and 'LECTURES, before going around spouting nonsense all over the US and beyond its borders.

He has never had the honesty to do even that!

It would be OK if he publishes his works and fiction as origination from his excellent imagination, but sadly he goes on misleading people into believing what he says and writes is the truth, based on factual experiences of which he has had none

The name of this forum Afterlife Knowledge is an 'Oxymoron"?

Quote:


   Yes, Justin, I feel that is the key for which I strive to maintain as much as possible. Besides believing that I have chimerism (both male and female DNA) which may give me a physical head start, balancing Yin and Yang in anyone has great benefits for mental, emotional, and physical stability while physically incarnate. Robert Monroe's he/she is a prime example.

   Not only that, but I feel it has been a key in my conquering fear of exploration into the other side. The more I learn and experience, the easier it gets to maintain a balance and loss of any fears, both in this physical life and in my meditations and dreams. I really look forward now into my journeys.

   After belonging to Christianity (first), Buddhism (second), Eckankar/Sant Mat (third) and Judaism (fourth), I have resorted back to being an agnostic convinced that God (he/she/it) is benevolent to all sentient beings and doesn't pick sides like some sort of all powerful game show host. Eckankar/Sant Mat probably was the closest of the religions I previously joined which taught that God was a sound force existing throughout all creation which split into light and sound below the higher planes/focus levels/frequencies which exist outside the physical realm.



Ralph

DocM wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:


Good post Mathew but the promotion of fear is not restricted to this forum. Fear is everywhere: fear of ISIS,fear of financial meltdown,fear of environmental collapse, fear of aging, fear of not being good enough etc etc. and like gravity it holds us down.But what is there to fear? Death of the physical body is inevitable- it may be car accident, disease, war-related, old age etc. but it is going to happen whatever we do. But what if we are inherently immortal spiritual beings enjoying a brief physical sojourn, what is their to fear then? Eternal damnation? - what possible motive would a loving God have for that? Possession? - We are going to lose our physical bodies anyway: let them have it if the invading entity wants it so badly! The truth is there is nothing to fear if we believe we are essentially immortal beings.

DocM wrote on Mar 29^th, 2016 at 5:54am:


Where do you dig up that fear is the opposite of love?



Fear is a very necessary attribute for human survival and not a negative as you state!

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:38am:


Thus, we should not fear anything, tell that to the victims and last few survivors of Hitler's death camps the of the Holocaust

Ralph Buskey wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 1:03pm:


Your gender marker indicates you are a male, but now you want me to believe that you are both male and female, for Gods sake choose which gender you are?

Almighty God presents himself as a male spirit, but in your view, he is a transgender .

God is not a sound force God is an Infinite Separate Mind that created all of the reality we see or do not see

Not this stupid entity or mindless energy and fairy tale rubbish that was invented by humanity.

<<Who the heck is Yahshua, we are English speakers on this forum, join a Hebrew forum if you insist on using Hebrew names not here?>>

Reminds me of when my wife and I joined a local gun club and we were part of a line of folks participating in trap shooting.  Instead of calling out "pull", signifying the RO to release the  pidgeon, I thought it'd be cool to call "bird" instead, which is the practice at our club in Canada.  I actually thought that would impress the other shooters.

A real no-no.  Not cool. I was gently admonished afterwards. "When in Rome" etc.  First and last time I pulled (pun intended) that stupid stunt.  Deliberately trying to be different in an attempt to impress others is a fool's errand.

R

1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 2:20am:


Fearing fear is pretty contradictory- how about 'consciously choosing to move way from fear'. Why ban it? - that's imposing something from the outside, that would'nt change anything - change comes from within!

Quote:

Alan, as a sidenote, the "Good War" also includes German civilians.

"German cities will be subjected to an ordeal the like of which has never been experienced by a country in continuity, severity and magnitude. To achieve this end there are no lengths of violence to which we will not go." - Winston Churchill

http://goo.gl/wVjctE

"Don’t mind the five or more million Germans. Stalin will see to them. You will not have trouble with them: they will cease to exist." - Winston Churchill

http://goo.gl/vYRLTj

Alan, I linked to a black & white photo in my previous post, but it is not only consisting of black and white like a notan picture. Neither is it justification of anything, but it is part of reality.

Hitler was at the top of the Nazi pyramid, and without the blocks of supporting Nazis below, what would Hitler do with his ideas?

What would Jesus do? What would God do?

Hate does not make you a good and strong man, so be it if your name is Alan or Churchill.

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 11:38am:


Its not contradictory. You are not familiar with how it works. Emotionally engrossed people are often fearful of fear. Similarly, many people get anxious about having an anxiety attack; depressed about being depressed; angry at themselves at being angry, and so on. Emotions can easily fold over upon themselves, each new layer initiated by the preceding layer of emotion more than by the initial trigger. Thus the condition magnifies and self-perpetuates itself, even after the initial triggers are no longer present or relevant.
   

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 11:38am:
Yes, change does come from within.

***

Psychs encourage people to develop an external locus of control by continually asking them, "And how did that make you feel?"

They also encourage the propagating of legislation and policies that entitle people (mostly women and black/brown people) not to feel bullied, harassed, threatened, and if they do then it is someone else's fault, regardless of that someone else's intent. That is why so many workplace policy manuals have statements to the effect that workers/students have the right not to feel fearful, anxious, bullied etc. Its not really about banning those emotional states, its about cultivating in people an external locus of control, a belief that one's internal condition is a result of external effects.

People with an external locus of control are mostly unhappy envious people, and blame others/circumstances/society etc for their own inadequacies. They dislike the world around them, particularly society. Because they have an external locus of control they are easily externally manipulated -- mentally, emotionally and physically. People with external locus of control make perfect useful idiots. And from a psych's point of view they are good for business too.      

rondele wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

No doubt one of several men with great responsibilities. The challenge with being a good guy, as opposed to a ruthless madman, is keeping an eye on both outward and inward standards.

1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:


I pretty much share your distrust of 'victim culture' and identity politics (which largely came out of post-modernism, Foucault et al). But don't forget there are hundreds of schools of psychology all with competing ideas of what constitutes a healthy mind.One of my favourite lines in the Simpsons is when the psychiatrist tells Bart to put down one of his books because ' that one has'nt been discredited yet'! Many approaches to psychology do try and help people stop seeing themselves as victims of circumstance, especially those of the existentialist persuasion.

One thing I would ask,however, is why 'God fearing'? I can understand it if one believes in a jealous OT Jehovah who dispenses lightning justice from His divine fingertips. If however one understands God as to be of infinite wisdom and love I would think fear is the last emotion one would have!

Alan, you obviously do not fit a *Nazi* pyramid (not tower). The simple pyramid concept was meant to describe a system with a leader on top, and supporters below giving momentum and the power to act on Hitler's ideas. How could Hitler have invaded any country on his own? The entire Nazi group was and is responsible for their actions, and that of course includes Hitler.

Jesus and God was inserted into the post to probe your thoughts on how divine entities would have handled a world war. Turning the other cheek? Sodom and Gomorrah revisited?

Winston got off his butt in London to encourage, and who knows if he was standing, sitting, walking or laying down while German civilians were bombed.

While Churchill and Hitler were not "in the same box", that is your words, Churchill's words reveal hate, even if that means his foaming at the mouth was temporarily. You defining something as an offence does not make it an offence, especially when you are offended by your own lack of understanding. Offended? Deal with it, that is a part of life.

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:52am:


My posts are not long! If I offended your sensitive soul I am sorry, but rather point out where I have been illogical or false?

Another reality to consider until the moment I returned to this forum a week or two ago, it was as good as dead in the ground!

Alan:

First of all, perhaps you should know Bruce a little better before you say disparaging things about him.

Secondly, the Disk viewpoint doesn't become a non-reality simply because you haven't discovered it.

Thirdly, God is not an unforgiving being in the way you state. Consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Fourth, there are teachers out there I don't agree with, but I don't go to their forums and speak against them, just as I wouldn't walk into a church and speak against its teachings. It would be disrespectful to do such a thing. I don't mean to say that a person has to agree with everything Bruce says, but a person can go too far.

Fifth, you need to learn to have some empathy for people you say deserve to go to hell. Again, consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Sixth, you speak of Satan, if you closely considered the Bible and its history, you would see that it doesn't clearly establish that Satan exists in the way you speak of Satan. In the Bible the world "Satan" basically means  adversary, and this word is used in varying contradictory ways. Consider what Matthew 16:21-23 says below. Did Jesus literally mean the Satan you speak of? Remember, Jesus thought well of Peter.

“From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.
     But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”
     Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God's.”

I don't mean to say that unfriendly beings don't exist, but perhaps not to an extent where we have to believe that a being named Satan is involved if somebody speaks of something such as having a disk experience.



Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Alan, my responses can be found within brackets below.

How can you tell us what an infinite being will do or not do? [In my last post I didn't say such a thing.]

Almighty God, is Sovereign, meaning he will and can do exactly what he wants to do, without asking my or your permission to act.? [I agree]

Satan is a real as God if you do not believe in Satan you cannot believe in God because Satan, Lucifer or the Devil by whatever name you call it, is the source of Evil while God is the source of good. [Certainly it is possible to believe in God without believing in Satan.]

God created Satan, in order for us to exercise our free will, to choose what is right and good or to choose what is wrong and evil. [If God created Satan, then despite what you said in your prior paragraph, God is the source of evil.  If God created Satan because he wanted an evil being to exist, can you blame Satan for being evil? Or perhaps there is a better explanation of what takes place than the one you provide.]

The fact that you do not believe in Satan does not mean he does not exist, that is just your opinion. [What I said is that the Bible and its history doesn't support the concept of Satan in the way you speak of him. What is your basis for believing that Satan exists in the way you describe?]

Satans greatest weapon is to make us believe he does not exist and in this he has done a very good job in your life. [You stated a plattitude that has no substantial basis. Where did it come from? Probably from a preacher who wanted to control his flock with fear. Many people have since repeated this plattitude without knowing if there is a substantial basis for its origin. I believe that unfriendly beings exist. I don't believe that Satan exists in the way you speak of him, because it seems as if your belief is groundless. Your belief seems to be similar to what many Christians believe. They believe that Satan exists without having a clear idea of what he is. They believe that the Bible provides a consistent and clear of explanation of who Satan is, even though it doesn't. The concept of Lucifer comes from a translational error. A fallen king of Babylon, a physical person, is spoken of in Isaiah 14:12, not a fallen angel. In whatever manner unfriendly beings exist, the Bible doesn't provide a detailed, consistent and clear explanation. That said, what is the basis for your concept of Satan?]

*****

I would like to add, if a person believes that one of Satan's greatest tricks is getting people to believe that he doesn't exist, then such a person will have a very difficult time seriously questioning such a belief, because it includes the fear-based ingredient that a person can't question it, without getting fooled by Satan.

A mind that isn't free to question can't find out what is true.

Alan, Do not anger yourself with the replies on this forum. Justin and Recoverer are just Groupies of Moens "Imagination System"... Both they cannot provide any verification's of Moens evidence of afterlife reality via his imagination system.
If so, prove it!..GMan

Alan, I agree with Gman. It's like me trying to reason with an old friend who insists I should become a Jehovah Witness.  It's pointless.  Why continue on a trip down a dead-end road?

Just let the blues brothers scratch each other's backs.  That way there won't be any skin off yours.

R

Roger, read my books and see if I am indulging in imagination. I'll send you free PDF files if you like. This offer doesn't extend to everybody.


rondele wrote on Apr 8^th, 2016 at 10:37am:

In my view, there is really nothing to fear. If you feel faced with a threat, you could run from it or make your stand. However, all that is essential for me is remembering who I am. Just come back to yourself, whoever that is, the core you. Nothing in this world or the next can snatch you from who you really are. You are that valuable. So there is nothing to fear.

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:52am:

Good.  Now I can write what I like without offending you.   

***

On the subject of “fear based” religions, here’s one for a laugh. The new-age religion whose followers believe in evil reptilian aliens masquerading as political leaders and detrimentally telepathically influencing us to keep our souls imprisoned on a slave planet – that is fear based religion. Notice that its “prophets” try to recruit fragile and simple minded people. Any followers will do to feed their ego. And they believe (hope) that western society will be blown away by a galactic energy wave, or the sea will rise and drown the cities, and socio-economic collapse or any one of all sorts of imagined calamities will come and cause the bad people (capitalists, conservatives, wealthy Jews, and those who believe in individual freewill and accountability) to be removed from the planet so the good people (those who hate freewill in others and individual accountability in themselves, and believe in social conformity which they misleadingly call equality) can inherit the earth. Then with the bad people gone and society levelled and the population reduced, the spiritual elite (deluded “spiritual” socialists) will lead the new humanity into a new age of harmony (compliance). It is a wanker’s religion. A religion of envy and destruction, and of fanciful power and status.

1796, you nailed it, but it's bound to upset the resident Marxist wannabe who will no doubt smother the board with even more left wing nonsense.  Maybe he should busy himself instead with some sort of mission, like starting a movement demanding voting rights for reptilians.

https://youtu.be/gHaJegv6Sjs

R

Good post Justin.

Going by some of their posts, Rondelle and 1796 don't know what it means to treat other people in a respectful and loving way. Just like school yard bullies they have their rationalizations and justifications for what they do, many people can see beyond such intellectualization. The day will come when Rondelle and 1796 will grow up spiritually and understand that it is not okay to do as they do. I believe it is quite ludicrous for 1796 to write posts on subjects such as forgiveness as he does, and then he writes the disrespectful things he writes, and Rondelle chears him on.

Regarding the imagination method, I used it just a few times. But as a school yard bully might do, some people tried to define me by it. Not that I'm opposed to the imagination method. It is a primer, a way of setting intent. Moving around in the spirit world is partly a matter of intent.


Quote:

I'm not opposed to people being critical of what others say. Certainly it is okay to have differing opinions. But it is one thing to have a different opinion, and quite another thing when a person gets a cheap thrill out of making fun of others.

If I ran a forum I wouldn't ban people for having differing opinions, but I would ban them if they found it necessary to try to find a momentary feeling  of happiness by being cruel and making fun of others.  I suppose bullies feel happy as they laugh while they pick on somebody. Perhaps even demons, if they exist, feel happy when they get a cheap thrill out of tormenting someone.



DocM wrote on Apr 9^th, 2016 at 3:05pm:

Speaking for myself I came to this conversation board originally because I had read Bruce's books and liked his non-doctrinaire, 'find-out by personal experience'-based approach. I would have thought that a pre-requisite for participating in this board would be at least some kind of understanding or interest that afterlife exploration might be (i) possible (ii) beneficial to oneself and of service to others, at least in theory. But it seems that some on this board are not even in the same book store let alone on the same page! It is a bit like someone who hates wildlife prowling around a board devoted to bird watching  just to annoy the twitchers- what's the point? Don't misunderstand me I'm not advocating Cult-like 'group-think' (that serves nobody and is very much against the spirit of Bruce's books) and sharing differences of opinion can be illuminating but this seems to go way beyond that.Its not even important if someone's left or right on the political spectrum- a genuine interest in afterlife exploration is all that's required. Its a shame it could be really good here.

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   I agree seagull. Partnered exploration is probably the best way to be sure of what's real and what is not. When I saw his offer last year, I really wanted to participate. Unfortunately, my skills are highly limited in focus level exploration. So far, my meditations never offer encounters with other beings and limited control of where I go. I hope to improve soon and reach the ability of controlled exploration.

Why are you so upset by my post?

If it does not apply to you, then ignore it.   

And if it does apply to you; if you believe in telepathic reptilian aliens trying to get into people’s minds, and who are able to appear as human beings, often as our political leaders; if you believe western society must be destroyed, and if you are awaiting its happening; if you believe you are a foreteller (a prophet) of that destruction, and if you believe you are a leader of others through societal collapse and transition into a new age; then again, why are you upset by my post?

This forum and others are peppered with posts supporting that new religion of societal destruction and transition. On this forum there are several threads dedicated wholly to it. So what is wrong with me summarising it? and why do you call me cruel and a bully?

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Average people are not saints, average people do not go around hurting other people unless it is to to prevent evil people hurting those they love.

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  1796, it is fine to summarize if one does so accurately and objectively, but what you are doing is neither. It is more akin to US politics and political smear campaigning.

  For example, speaking about negative ET's, you write of others beliefs, "who are able to appear as human beings, often as our political leaders;"

   Neither Recoverer or i have ever said that these ET's appear as political leaders. 

    That negative beings may sometimes try to influence the movers and shakers of this world, is another matter, and one that even Tom Campbell has indicated happens. 

   Also, it seems that time and time again that you gloss over that what you make fun of so consistently, various more credible sources indicate there is some truth to these things. 

   You have referenced to Bob Monroe in the past and seem to respect him.  Bob is on record as saying that ET's meddle or influence our human affairs, and his Expanded, Disk self level (INSPEC etc) told him that virtually all of his/their lives involved some ET influence. 

  You also ignore that one of Bob's longest time and most successful explorers Rosalind McKnight and their guidance point blank said that a negative ET group is involved with this world, and eventually would be involved in starting an outright war of aggression towards us.  They also said that positive and helpful ET's were involved with our world and were protecting us until we were grown enough to deal with them in these overt ways.

   If you know anything about Bob and his relationship with Rosie and her guidance, you would know that Bob had a very, very high respect for them.  Bob referred to Rosie's main guide as "Ah So", partly because this source was so enlightening and wise. Bob indicated to Rosie on more than one occasion, that Rosie's guidance would frequently telepathically read his mind and answer questions before he asked. 

    He also reported that if they parked too close to Rosie's sessions, the car batteries would get drained somehow.

   I never met Bob in physical, but i met in person and was friends with Rosie and she was obviously an old Soul with more expanded perception than the average--she just struck me as wise and loving. 

  These are only two sources.  Then there is Edgar Cayce's work which hints that one, ET's exist and two that negative forces are very much involved in this world.

   As far as Earth changes go, again, it's similar. MANY more credible sources, including the above three, speak of these as probable, so doesn't the NT and Yeshua, and so don't various sources from NDE's to Native American tribes.  That i recognize this as a necessity and as probable, does not mean that i hate people--it means that i know that this world will not change for the better to that golden spiritual age that many have seen happening after the collapse/breakdown, without major outer catalysts.

  See the conservation between He/She and Bob Monroe as it touches on this.  He/She talks about a plan to unify humanity that will not involve any kind of ism, but "world wide recognized necessity".   Bob says recognized necessity is severe stuff and that the "world would have to be in pretty rough shape".  He/She replies, "that's why the waiting, the time will come."

  Do you claim to be wiser and more aware than He/She oh arrogant one?

You speak of things you don't know, and think self is so much the expert that self knows everything.  You have much to learn about much. Classic OBE's can only take one so far. 

   When you attune to PUL a lot more and more consistently, more will open up to you, but until then, you do sound and act like a school yard, bellicose bully sometimes. 

  You also do not seem to be a truth seeker, but seek to confirm only what you believe, preconceive, or want to believe. You dislike the idea of collapse, not for any great love of others, but because of your selfish, materialistic side is too attached to the things of the world.

   I could care less what you say or don't say about me, but it does bother me some that you represent and talk about Yeshua.  For him, with friends like you, who needs enemies?

  Oh, btw, a question to a supposed Christian?  Why does the Bible in general, and also Yeshua and Yochanan (John the Baptist) specifically make frequent reference to serpents/vipers in a negative manner? 

  Ever read the Dead Sea Scrolls?  These make even more reference to serpents/vipers and sometimes in a way that talks about negative beings with a serpent/viper like appearance.  See Testament of Amram where he was psychically viewing the Archangel Michael battling a being with the visage of a "Viper" over who would influence his Soul and whether towards the Light or lack of same.

   Consider the Apostle John's words "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."  Here we have John outright saying that Satan/the devil aka the adversary and tempter is an ancient serpent, but only allegory i suppose.


   Curious that, curious that ancient figurines have been found of these Reptilian humanoid looking beings, and that other cultures and sources have talked of these visiting gods (what ancient people called ET's).

  Hmm, both Recoverer and i have had various experiences and guidance messages indicate to us that a negative ET group is involved with this world, and on occasion, we've seen them as Reptilian looking.  My spouse had a dream about this before we even considered, in an open minded way, the possibility of this.

  Hmm, maybe it's at least a possibility that there is a negative ET group which appears reptilian like in appearance? 

   But if the Almighty 1796 doesn't believe it's true, it can't possibly be true, but of course. 

  Occasionally bratty, aggressive children do need to be spanked. Yeshua spanked the Pharisee's, Sadducee, and other self stylized experts who were misleading people on occasion. 

   

Justin:

Good point about what Robert Monroe said about unfriendly influences. He speaks of them in "Ultimate Journey." He says that some of these influences were never human, and have been interacting with humanity for years. Perhaps he found out something that is factual, rather than simply imagining what he expected to imagine (this is a rebuttal to Doc's contention).

For myself, I found out about unfriendly  aliens not because I expected to or wanted to, but because friendly spirits I have found to be trustworthy decided to let me know about them. If it is possible to find out about other things that aren't imagination based, then perhaps it is possible to find out about unfrienly aliens without being misled.

Bruce Moen didn't write about unfriendly aliens but he wrote about friendly aliens and what seemed to be neutral aliens (the later, aliens he sharred PUL with). He also wrote of the gathering, a place where aliens keep track of expected Earth changes.

You brought up Rosalind McKnight. In one of his books Bruce wrote that he was touched by the Patrick event that took place during the Monroe Institute Explorer sessions. Below is a link that has the tape for that event (session # 17). If he considers that session valid, I wonder  if he considers the sessions where Robert Monroe was informed through Rosalind that unfriendly aliens interact with this World, valid.

https://www.monroeinstitute.org/explorer-series

The part about retrievals starts at around the 9 minute point.

  Good points Albert. 

Related to what i said earlier. The only time Yeshua refers to these serpents/vipers in any kind of positive sense, is when he sends out the 70 or 72 disciples into the gentile world, and he cautions them among others things to be as gentle as doves, but as wise* as serpents.

    But that is not the more accurate translation, the more accurate translation of that word is not wise, but more akin to the concept/idea of clever.  Yeshua was basically saying something like, keep your street smarts about you when in these foreign lands, don't let people trick or take advantage of you, but at the same time, do no harm (gentle as doves).

   Now, how did Yeshua go about making this association between serpents/vipers and cleverness if he was only speaking about earthly snakes or lizards?  What about them seems particularly clever?  Doves being gentle makes sense, but the other one doesn't.

   Perhaps this this hits home the point that he was possibly referring to perhaps a very intelligent ET race that tends to be more clever than humans?

   How is Satan/the Devil, the tempter and misleader of humanity from the beginning a "serpent" and/or dragon like?  Perhaps John knew, either from what Yeshua told him or psychically, that the Reptilian ET's have been involved in misleading humans from the get go.

   Maybe people had had physical and nonphysical encounters with these evil, psychopathic beings and saw that they looked akin to our earthly reptilians in some ways?   That is exactly what Amram in the Dead Sea Scrolls states. 

    When there is so much circumstantial evidence for something, and so many diverse and unrelated sources speaking of similar things, chances are, there is probably something to it. 

   We humans know next to nothing about ET's and ET life.  Bob Monroe was told that there were countless ET groups out there.  Is it logical or even probable that all of them are PUL based and friendly towards humans? 

p.s.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/unanswered-mystery-7000-yea...

  The Asian cultures speak of dragons more so than serpents.  For some reason, they venerated these more than some Western cultures which typically viewed them more as evil.  Sometime people like to venerate anything that is more seemingly powerful than themselves, or because they lack insight into the nature of that which they are venerating.

Alan:

Does God want you to call people stupid?

If people can exist as mammals, why couldn't an alien race exist in some form of Reptilian form?

On one of your posts you stated that God created Satan because he wanted evil to oppose us, but then you doubt that he would create Reptilian like beings. Seems kind of contradictory. Of course if Reptilian like beings exist (It's a big universe out there, all kinds of beings might exist), they could've been created without God creating them directly.

Consider yourself, to some degree God created you, but I doubt that he created you with the thought that you would  someday express the viewpoints you are now expressing. Your viewpoints are the result of how free will has been expressed by your soul. Well, sort of free will, at the time you are so caught up in a fear-based belief system, it doesn't seem as if you are able to use your free will in a truly meaningful way.

I doubt that God would use a derogatory term such as stupid in the way you use it. Rather, he understands that sometimes people becomes confused.

The fact of how the Bible can play a role in people getting caught up in fear-based belief systems such as the one you are demonstrating, shows that the Bible wasn't written by God, for he would write a book that wouldn't have such an effect. The Bible was written by numerous men, its chapters were chosen and translated by men, and some of these chapters are based on stories that were passed on by word of mouth for a number of years before the stories were written. This being the case,  certainly there is some room for error. Can you see this?

DocM wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 1:54pm: