1796 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:


I pretty much share your distrust of 'victim culture' and identity politics (which largely came out of post-modernism, Foucault et al). But don't forget there are hundreds of schools of psychology all with competing ideas of what constitutes a healthy mind.One of my favourite lines in the Simpsons is when the psychiatrist tells Bart to put down one of his books because ' that one has'nt been discredited yet'! Many approaches to psychology do try and help people stop seeing themselves as victims of circumstance, especially those of the existentialist persuasion.

One thing I would ask,however, is why 'God fearing'? I can understand it if one believes in a jealous OT Jehovah who dispenses lightning justice from His divine fingertips. If however one understands God as to be of infinite wisdom and love I would think fear is the last emotion one would have!

Alan, you obviously do not fit a *Nazi* pyramid (not tower). The simple pyramid concept was meant to describe a system with a leader on top, and supporters below giving momentum and the power to act on Hitler's ideas. How could Hitler have invaded any country on his own? The entire Nazi group was and is responsible for their actions, and that of course includes Hitler.

Jesus and God was inserted into the post to probe your thoughts on how divine entities would have handled a world war. Turning the other cheek? Sodom and Gomorrah revisited?

Winston got off his butt in London to encourage, and who knows if he was standing, sitting, walking or laying down while German civilians were bombed.

While Churchill and Hitler were not "in the same box", that is your words, Churchill's words reveal hate, even if that means his foaming at the mouth was temporarily. You defining something as an offence does not make it an offence, especially when you are offended by your own lack of understanding. Offended? Deal with it, that is a part of life.

recoverer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 11:52am:


My posts are not long! If I offended your sensitive soul I am sorry, but rather point out where I have been illogical or false?

Another reality to consider until the moment I returned to this forum a week or two ago, it was as good as dead in the ground!

Alan:

First of all, perhaps you should know Bruce a little better before you say disparaging things about him.

Secondly, the Disk viewpoint doesn't become a non-reality simply because you haven't discovered it.

Thirdly, God is not an unforgiving being in the way you state. Consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Fourth, there are teachers out there I don't agree with, but I don't go to their forums and speak against them, just as I wouldn't walk into a church and speak against its teachings. It would be disrespectful to do such a thing. I don't mean to say that a person has to agree with everything Bruce says, but a person can go too far.

Fifth, you need to learn to have some empathy for people you say deserve to go to hell. Again, consider Jesus' prodigal son story.

Sixth, you speak of Satan, if you closely considered the Bible and its history, you would see that it doesn't clearly establish that Satan exists in the way you speak of Satan. In the Bible the world "Satan" basically means  adversary, and this word is used in varying contradictory ways. Consider what Matthew 16:21-23 says below. Did Jesus literally mean the Satan you speak of? Remember, Jesus thought well of Peter.

“From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.
     But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”
     Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God's.”

I don't mean to say that unfriendly beings don't exist, but perhaps not to an extent where we have to believe that a being named Satan is involved if somebody speaks of something such as having a disk experience.



Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 7^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Alan, my responses can be found within brackets below.

How can you tell us what an infinite being will do or not do? [In my last post I didn't say such a thing.]

Almighty God, is Sovereign, meaning he will and can do exactly what he wants to do, without asking my or your permission to act.? [I agree]

Satan is a real as God if you do not believe in Satan you cannot believe in God because Satan, Lucifer or the Devil by whatever name you call it, is the source of Evil while God is the source of good. [Certainly it is possible to believe in God without believing in Satan.]

God created Satan, in order for us to exercise our free will, to choose what is right and good or to choose what is wrong and evil. [If God created Satan, then despite what you said in your prior paragraph, God is the source of evil.  If God created Satan because he wanted an evil being to exist, can you blame Satan for being evil? Or perhaps there is a better explanation of what takes place than the one you provide.]

The fact that you do not believe in Satan does not mean he does not exist, that is just your opinion. [What I said is that the Bible and its history doesn't support the concept of Satan in the way you speak of him. What is your basis for believing that Satan exists in the way you describe?]

Satans greatest weapon is to make us believe he does not exist and in this he has done a very good job in your life. [You stated a plattitude that has no substantial basis. Where did it come from? Probably from a preacher who wanted to control his flock with fear. Many people have since repeated this plattitude without knowing if there is a substantial basis for its origin. I believe that unfriendly beings exist. I don't believe that Satan exists in the way you speak of him, because it seems as if your belief is groundless. Your belief seems to be similar to what many Christians believe. They believe that Satan exists without having a clear idea of what he is. They believe that the Bible provides a consistent and clear of explanation of who Satan is, even though it doesn't. The concept of Lucifer comes from a translational error. A fallen king of Babylon, a physical person, is spoken of in Isaiah 14:12, not a fallen angel. In whatever manner unfriendly beings exist, the Bible doesn't provide a detailed, consistent and clear explanation. That said, what is the basis for your concept of Satan?]

*****

I would like to add, if a person believes that one of Satan's greatest tricks is getting people to believe that he doesn't exist, then such a person will have a very difficult time seriously questioning such a belief, because it includes the fear-based ingredient that a person can't question it, without getting fooled by Satan.

A mind that isn't free to question can't find out what is true.

Alan, Do not anger yourself with the replies on this forum. Justin and Recoverer are just Groupies of Moens "Imagination System"... Both they cannot provide any verification's of Moens evidence of afterlife reality via his imagination system.
If so, prove it!..GMan

Alan, I agree with Gman. It's like me trying to reason with an old friend who insists I should become a Jehovah Witness.  It's pointless.  Why continue on a trip down a dead-end road?

Just let the blues brothers scratch each other's backs.  That way there won't be any skin off yours.

R