Greetings to all.

   I have had some revelations through meditation recently that I would like to share. It all concerns the matter of the nature of our planet. Most people believe that the Earth is solid and we are the only inhabitants that dwell on the surface.

   Some of you may have heard of the stories about Agartha the inner earth with a central sun. There is much more to this that has been discovered more recently building the case for a hollow center.

Sorry I can't think right now to post other sources of info. I'll reply another time when I find them.

The earth is solid, however, the further down you get the hotter it becomes. I know this because I worked for over 8 years on the South African Gold Mines


To suggest that our solid earth is hollow is as stupid as saying it is a a soft boiled egg

That's interesting Ralph.
Here is a brief overview of the general subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

I expect great subterranean caverns do exist in certain places. Probably many caverns. And perhaps they have been accessed and utilised before. Time may tell.

I doubt the secret diary version sometimes attributed to Admiral Byrd though. But who knows?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM

From a certain angle, above the physical plane and above the astral planes that surround the Earth, it is apparent that the physical Earth as we know it is down in the depths of the overall planet, for the physical planet is surrounded by countless astral planes. So in a sense we do live in the centre of the Earth.

Even the Sun and its light as we know it which is visible on the physical plane is not visible on most astral planes, which cast their own light directly from their matter, like stars do, as opposed to planets which reflect light from stars. Hence the astral planes are called astral, after their astral matter, meaning star like, or casting its own light. Anyway, even the physical Sun can be seen as belonging to the central Earth physical plane and as part of the concave physical sphere that is the physical solar system as we know it. Its all in the place and angle of view, and I am describing a very objective view indeed.
   
Oh, and by the way. Gravity is a funny thing indeed, and not yet well understood, though we are getting there, as those who follow such developments will know.

But those who are reasonably proficient at consciously leaving the body can gain a good view of gravity, what it is and how it works. One of the interesting things about it is that at the depths of every centre of gravity, ie at the centre of every planet, galaxy, universe... is a point that penetrates into another dimension, or more accurately is drawn into another dimension. So the gravity we feel is actually secondary gravity, or the effect of the draw or gravity of the dimension upon which our dimension adheres. Anyway, my point is that when out of the body, we can certainly go to the depth of any centre of gravity and emerge into another dimension. And in a sense, that makes things like planets and galaxies hollow or funnel-like.

       

1796 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2016 at 11:29pm:


How do you know all the above as fact, when in my opinion it is just fabricated wild fiction??

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I thought you've been preaching sin and damnation. Maybe you can explain to me how the Bible works without the sin in the garden?

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 1:22pm:


I may know it to be fact, but no one else can know it to be fact until they do too. So I put it out there for consideration by those who might wish to consider it.

I don't want to be believed about such things. If someone where to respond saying they believed me about such things then I would make a comment to throw them back upon their self, upon their own conscience, their own intellect, their own judgement, considerations, and heart. The last thing I want is for anyone to blindly believe me. I really dislike that, and I regularly discourage it and frequently push people back upon themselves.     

Anything that is heard or read, whether it be true or false or a mixture of both, is only information to the recipient, not knowledge. Information at best can only serve as a guide towards knowledge of truth, and at worst can serve to persuade one away from truth, towards falsity. That is the nature of life as humans. We must find life's answers for our self.

So whether I know it to be factual or not is irrelevant to the recipient of the information, or should be, for he must discover truth himself, or herself.

There is only one truth though, for in its fullness there is only one way things are, not two or more in contradiction. What most psychologists teach about there being multiple individual truths being all true, about there being "no such thing as truth, only individual perception", about something being true for one person and another thing being true for another person, and that, "if you feel it then its true for you", is just a debating and manipulating tactic used for power and control over others. Truth is how things are.

I often state things as if they are fact, particularly when I know them to be fact. But that is my knowledge, not anyone else's until they have it too. I state things as fact because I credit people with their own freewill. And freewill includes free intellect, free choice, freedom to consider, freedom to wonder, to ponder, to contemplate and to think for themselves. I credit them with that, even when they don't credit themselves with it.

Some people get offended by me stating things as if they are fact, as if I know them to be true. They bleat that I am taking away their freewill or free determination. If I give instructions on how to do something, they confuse them for orders, and then complain that they are being told what to do. They even claim I am doing this to them across an internet forum and through their computer screen. Such people have what is termed an "external locus of control". Although they talk about having freewill they actually have little concept of their own freewill and responsibility. Freewill is just a vague notion to them. And their own individual accountability is something they shy from. As freewill goes together with their own responsibility and accountability, and as they reject the latter, they cannot understand or properly accept the former.

If they did comprehend their own freewill and responsibility then they would not exhibit an external locus of control and would not so easily feel "offended", "bullied" and "oppressed" by what other people say. For our freewill applies not only to what we do and what comes from us, but also to how we let external things effect us.   

I am frequently told by such people that I should introduce what they call "my truth" by saying, "In my opinion...", or, "It seems to me that...". Such people love to tell others how to talk, for their external locus of control means they can only control their own feelings by controlling other people. They have developed little emotional independence. They usually consider their unpleasant feelings to be someone else's fault.

If something is my opinion or if it seems a certain way to me, then I may introduce it as such. But if I know it, then I may just state it, and let others consider it by their own means. I credit people with more freewill than they usually credit themselves.

I refuse to reinforce people's insecurities and to encourage their self imposed limitations by introducing my statements with, "In my opinion/It seems to me..." etc, just so they don't feel offended, controlled or oppressed by what I say. That would just be reinforcing their lack of development, and I don't wish to do that. I would rather speak to them as if they have the independent freedom of thought that I know they have, at least potentially.   

Besides, such people are mostly not as nice and considerate as they pretend to be. They are quite happy to use their often feigned offendedness to limit and control what others can say, to encourage others to join them in being offended, and to do harm or see harm done to those who do not comply with their demands on how to speak and be. Many of them actually have a dislike of other people's freewill, and are continually trying to restrict and limit it to their own liking. That is a love of power and control over others. I don't comply with such people. Certainly not when I don't have to.   

So consider or don't consider whatever I say. Reject it, or wonder about it, and perhaps let it stretch the mind a little, and maybe the heart too. Dismiss it as false, accept it as "perhaps", or leave it as unknown. Explore it or don't. I am just as happy whatever is done with it. But don't blindly believe me -- that is all I really don't want.        

   

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Why is it an allegory? And how do you know then that the rest of the Bible, including the parts of the wrathful judging God who sends people to burn in inexpressible torture for ever and ever, isn't an allegory? Or just myths? And don't give me your subjective experience - it means nothing to me.

I don't believe in a wrathful God that I've never seen.

I've seen some wrath here on earth, and that ain't God.

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 3:27am:


1. You misunderstood. Or I was not clear. To the reader who is not hung up, who has an internal or better still, a centralised locus of control, has his own mind, and who can differentiate between information and knowledge, it doesn't matter whether I say something is my opinion or my knowledge. He treats it the same. As information. And weighs it for himself.

2. The principle contributor for my out-of-body excursions is prayer. Is prayer to Almighty God. It is prayer that causes the out-of-body experiences, and prayer that causes second sight too, and other things. Often I have had no intention whatsoever to leave the body, it just occurs during prayer, or afterwards. I may have a strong yearning to know about something, and then in prayer or after prayer I am enabled to go and see for myself. But everything in one's psyche and life must be lined up, like the disks or pins in a lock. If things are all in place, and if such experiences are permitted within the purpose of one's life, then such experiences can be a natural result of intense prayer. And the prayer must be potent prayer, combining faith, love, soul and breath.   

3. It is true that we only have one life on Earth. But there are more layers to the Earth than we can commonly see from this most densest layer. From when we first enter into Earth, to when we finally depart, is one life with many sub-lives cycling through the Earth's layers, until we have learnt all Earth's lessons. That we only have one life here is true, and that we have many is also true.

4. I may talk of leaving the body, but my first encouragement of others is towards their own best self, their conscience, their better judgement, their own life duties, and to the timeless virtues that liberate the soul, such as faith, charity, love, forgiveness, truth, thankfulness, courage, strength, kindness, chivalry, harmlessness, and many others. An appreciation of freewill and its potential to learn, within their self, and more importantly within others. To cultivate a sense of good humour, even in adversity. To have thankfulness every day, for all life's blessings, even the littlest ones. I encourage others not to follow the crowd, unless they judge the crowd to be right, but to think carefully for themselves, to develop their own conscience, and strength of character, to be their own man, and their own woman. To be the best father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, worker, colleague, employer, neighbour, that they can be. And to do so quietly, without fanfare or big noting. And without expectations on others, but only on their self. To work on their own character as best they can, in the direction their own conscience and best judgement would have them go. If on top of attending to that, and whatever else they need to attend to in their life, they also wish to explore the possibilities of soul, perhaps through leaving the body, then I am laying down some hints and guidelines.      

5. Throughout my posts are sprinkled definitions. Definitions are the building blocks of thought and understanding. Descriptions too, and laws, rules and guidelines. They are only information, not knowledge until proven to be so by the individual. Such definitions can be pondered and mulled over by those who will, and used by those who wish to trial them. Contemplated and installed if considered useful. Adjusted to suit themselves or used as is. I reserve no copyright on such things. Most of them are not mine anyway. I was given them. Regarding those definitions that I word, I encourage others to make my words their words, my understandings their understandings, if that suits them. I am happy for others to run with what I put out there. I don't want credit. As said, they were given to me freely, and they have served me immensely well, and I put them out freely for others to use or adopt and hopefully be benefitted even more than I have been.   

cb

I use the term occult in its professional sense. Occult means hidden, or generally out of sight, obscured, as yet not fully manifest. The term is often used in medicine and psychiatry to indicate the presence of something unseen or yet to manifest. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/occult   

It is true that there are definite risks to one's mental wellbeing and life potential in meddling with the occult arts, which are the generally hidden arts of the soul. And the risk is particularly present where drugs are involved, and where there is little focus on the traditional virtues, and little effort in character development.

That is why I stress right personal conditioning through cultivation of virtues, the greatest of which is love. And developing a good and strong character, valuing the freewill of others and accepting one's own individual responsibility, and putting one's physical life duties and responsibilities ahead of seeking occult knowledge. And of course, steering clear of illicit drugs and irresponsible use of prescribed drugs. Occult knowledge and skill can result as a by-product of right prayer, right relationships and wholesome living.

Several of the New Testament Disciples experienced out-of-body excursions to higher planes, out-of-body lessons and revelations, and heightened vision. Many of the Old Testament prophets did too. There are many such accounts in the bible, there for the reading. And they resulted from prayer, faith in God, and right living. Read the histories of the Saints and see that many of them too had such experiences. But again, it comes through good, charitable and wholesome living, together with development of soul through love, prayer and faith.

Occult skill is like the disks coming into their right place in a safe's combination lock. When the recesses in the disks line up, then the bar drops in and the lock may turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwJhgNEeKvs 
The personality mechanism is like that. When the mental, emotional and physical bodies (thinking and conduct) align with the true conscience, which is the highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do, and that part to which God speaks. And also align with heart, which is that part of us through which God's power moves. Then there is a direct flow-through from the inner upper peak of our soul or oversoul, down and through all our bodies/layers or component parts of our soul and personality mechanism. When our breath and attention aligns with that flow-through, and coordinates it in the right way, then we are capable of the occult or generally unknown abilities of soul.

Live a good life, be charitable with your resources and energies, value truth and honesty, and value other people's freewill and your own individual responsibility, be considerate and helpful, kind, strong, and brave when you need to be. Become familiar with your conscience, and live it out through your being, and your mistakes in life will be minimal. Let your occult knowledge develop naturally, on top of, or secondary to, those more important things in life. And if there be room in your life's purpose, then like the prophets, disciples and saints of olden times, you will safely experience and learn about the hidden abilities of soul.


However, if you dabble in drugs, then do not go near the occult. If you do you will likely go mad. You will develop irrational delusions and projections.

If you have a mental illness or mental-emotional fragility, then do not pursue occult knowledge. Doing so will almost certainly cause you to decline and possibly unravel. Instead, keep yourself grounded with practical down-to-earth hobbies and interests. Concentrate on developing good relationships with sensible people. Study the traditional virtues, gently cultivate them and humbly practice them. And your mental and spiritual health will improve. 

With due respect old man, your wires are crossed. Paul was not stoned to death. Stephen was stoned, and Paul who was then called Saul, witnessed his stoning. It is in the book of Acts. Paul’s kind of death is not generally known for certain, but tradition and historians suspect he was beheaded under Nero during the mid 60’s. And Paul spoke not of himself going to the third heaven but of another man in Christ, whom he did not name, who was raised to the third heaven and gained teachings to keep to himself. It is in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians, where he talks about controlling his image in the eyes of others. But those things are beside the point anyway. 

Paul mentions many things that suggest occult knowledge of the human condition, including our earthly and celestial bodies and elemental spirits. Paul’s description of marriage between man and woman and its representation of the relationship between Christ and Church is occult. As are many of the observations of the Preacher in Ecclesiastes, and as are the other books where mostly one has to have similar or related knowledge to recognise what they have written about, such as Elijah going by whirlwind up to heaven, Isaiah’s vision of heaven, the spirit travels of Ezekiel and his sights of wheels within wheels, Jacob’s ladder between heaven and earth, Daniel’s visions, are occult and out-of-body related. Jesus, Peter, James and John transformed so they could see and commune with Moses and Elijah. The revelations of John of Patmos, and visions of heaven revealed to him while in the spirit, and many of the gnostic segments of John, and 1 & 2 John, are occult or above the physical or out-of-body related. Most if not all of the parables have multiple levels of meaning, including occult levels which if one is taken up in spirit or attune beyond the physical plane then their occult meaning is seen.

If Alan wishes to try to discourage out-of-body investigations, that is fine. If anyone is doubtful or fearful of the occult, they should stay away from it. That is best. Occult knowledge is not necessary to be a good person, no more than scientific knowledge is. It can complement though. And I do say there are risks to occult study, as there are risks with everything. Look at any collection of mystics/occultists/out-of-body/spiritualist types and you will see plenty of nutcases amongst them. Go in any psych unit and you will meet plenty of people too deranged to function in the outside world but quite convinced they possess mystic/occult knowledge. Most are drug users too.

It is a matter of rightly mitigating the risks, understanding the laws of life, noting the landmarks and following the rules and guidelines, and developing sound judgement and right motive.
   
In the higher levels of the astral planes, well above the emotional planes, in what we might term the higher mental planes, exist schools of occult science, and the bell of every worthy school sounds out this message: Virtue before knowledge, purity before ability.

The message is engraved on the bell, written above the bell, so every student knows, and is reminded when it rings.

My own preference is to avoid "travels" to the other side, so to speak.  I take the advice of Emanuel Swedenborg, probably one of the most well traveled of them all, who strongly warned others not to attempt to go where he did because of the many snares and deceptions that he faced and that are prevalent in the afterlife.

I respect the position of cb, and the preconditions he identifies as important, before taking such steps.  Fact is, most of us don't have the strength of character and purity of motives necessary to avoid the pitfalls.  I know I don't. 

Although I attended one of Bruce's workshops and participated in the exercises, I didn't feel comfortable doing it and I personally don't think he should encourage others to do so.  Not to disparage his motives, just to say that it's not without its dangers given the wide diversity of the attendees and the law of unintended consequences.

R

Hi Alan-

Even RAM wrote about meeting an alien who looked like W.C. Fields, and said his mission was to collect jokes from Earth and take them back to his home planet which needed cheering up.

So I wonder, was RAM also a fibber or was it just an example of the rampant deception that ES warned about?  Regarding the moon story, maybe ES was himself a victim of clever deception?

R

rondele wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:


Who then is RAM?

Gullibe? That works both ways. Accept there is a ceiling to your growth, why, because you are not worhty and people do not like that shit because blah blah blah. I had my first out of body experiences when I was about 9 years old. No demons, just me and geometric shapes floating about, thinking this is a novelty and vivid yet at the same timwe, water under the bridge, I have and am going to keep doing this

Hehe, Alan, you were presented with ABSOLUTE truth, also you are entitled to have your SUBJECTIVE and RELATIVE opinion.

Just having a laugh, do no get your periods in a twist. There is nothing unusual about being out of body.

The night you flat lined, left your body and went into other dimensions of existence, that was not a true out of body experience?

The irritation stems from your differing views of out of body experiences.

The straw man argument you put up is the actual lie. Calm down, and remember to never bear false witness against your neighbour just because you are irritated. Also, you shall not try to steal nor covet the tongue of others.

It is Easter, give the hammer and nails a rest.

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You must insert quotes into your posts so that a person can know as to whom it is directed.

Now you have put on a philosopher's hat using terms like the "Staw-Man" deception. Are you now Plato so that you can duck and dive with this sort of nonsense?

I do not have different views about the OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES

I Only two have just two (2) views on the whole sad subject.

1)That to practice it consciously by leaving your physical body is wrong and evil.
2) That in death it is the way for your soul to leave your mortal body on its journey into the afterlife.

I rest my case!

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Plato not Pluto!   

Unlike you, I know what I am talking about!

I have done conscious OOBE and as a consequence suffered many years of pain horror and misery.

Demons do not have physical bodies, so while you are having fun exploring the vast universe, one might take over your empty vacant mind and torment you, just like the one that oppressed me for all those many years.

Yet you contue to ingore my advice to you, which will at your own peril and persist in plotting out a path leading to the destruction of your soul and refuse to take advice.

This issue seems like a huge joke to you, but you might end up being the main clown in hell, dancing, forever, to the devils trill?

When you stand before God after your death, he will bring this to your attension and demand an explanation, from you as to exactly why you ignored my advice!

i give up this is my last post to you on this subject!

Alan, your experience is your experience, which is not to say everyone have or will experience what you have. How many demons are personal demons masquerading as proper demons? The answer is plain and simple, I do not know, but the question is valid. A personal demon might very well be one's own worst enemy. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool (Richard P. Feynman).

Since you give up on the subject to me, fare well in body and out of body after your passing. Though I have plenty of my own, thanks for your advice, opinions and assumptions.

https://goo.gl/FPjq9b

Alan, I was not aware of this, but it is a great quote. “The highest forms of understanding we can achieve are laughter and human compassion.”

Alan,

“Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is.” - Feynman

“A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination.” - Nelson Mandela

“Whatever you do in life, surround yourself with smart people who'll argue with you.” - John Wooden

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. Albert Einstein

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I never said that and that is also not a 'Staw Man argument"

No don't go Alan, not if you don't want to. I like you here.

And I don't get offended.

I wrote that post a few weeks ago when you were starting threads and putting posts all over the place. 

Your revealing your bipolar on the forum is of no consequence to me.    

Walking is good.

So is music, of the right sort, of course.

Alan, do you have someone, a strong and sensible friend or relative, that you can rely on to assist you and help you stay disciplined in your self-management? and who can and will stand up to you if required?


crossbow

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 17^th, 2016 at 6:47am:


No.

I am well familiar with all mental disorders and personality maladjustments, their treatments, and self-management strategies.