seagull says:

"I'm very sorry you are feeling so ill and I'm not clear on the reason for such a panicked note."

Actually there is nothing in Alan's post that indicates he is feeling ill nor panicked.  I do agree that ACIM and its numerous spin-offs (i.e. Conversations; Disappearance of the Universe) are bogus at best and malevolent at worst.

I don't know if what Bruce teaches is credible or not.  I don't believe, however, that he is deliberately deceiving people.  Can he himself be deceived?  Of course, just like the rest of us.  And that, I think, is Alan's point although not artfully communicated.

R

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 1:02pm:


[color=#ff0000]The truth is the truth
I was never deceived by Bruce Moen I always knew he was lying and inventing his nonsense!!
You chose?
Believe Jesus Christ?
or

Choose Bruce Moen who is disillusion, just I like I was.
For me it is easy because Jesus
IS THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE
IS THE WAY TO GOD
IS LIFE
IS LIGHT
IS GOODNESS

Rondele,

I happen to recognize this type of communication. The all caps, etc. etc. It is a symptom of illness. And, indeed, most people recognize all caps in red as an emotional cue.

I tried to remove the post I originally made, which you did not quote in full, because I changed my mind about responding first and I also decided I didn't want to be involved in the obvious discussion that would follow. Apparently I did not accomplish that quickly enough.

However, now that you have responded I will say that I still stand by my comments. I had also stated that I found no reason for anyone to believe that Bruce Moen insists anywhere that his methods are for everyone. He does not do that.

I never said anyone could not be deceived. However, it is difficult to fool all the people all the time...

seagull wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 2:50pm:


Silly the red font was to get my point over load and clear I am not ill, I have been well for years now!

Of course like the rest of us we tell lies Research has shown that a person on average tells some 200 lies a day to others and in their mind

God ahead make Bruce Moen your

The hostility is also a symptom. It may not be your intention, but that is how it comes across. It's not going to interfere with my day, however, so no worries.

Alan:

In my church, there is something called a "conversion experience" where someone who feels they are lost and has the burden of sin comes to Jesus to find forgiveness and peace. Sometimes one loses the way and feels they have been deceived by the evil one or simply rebelled and wanted to live in sin. They can also find a 180 degree turn in their life.

I am curious to know what experience in your life has brought you to this point of seeing this all as deception, should you care to share.

seagull wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:40am:


Actually, you are proving my point with every post. If you are not ill it is exceptionally arrogant of you to trash Bruce Moen's forum in this manner. You have never practiced any of his meditation methods and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

seagull wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 9:13am:


In august, 2011 my heart stopped at home and I was clinically died on the resuscitation table, and saw that i was going into a very dark place for so cold, so far from the Great God forever

We should know, that meditation opens your soul to some dark forces that will not leave until you die!

This thing about a living person rescuing a dead person is abject nonsense and dangerous at that. A mere mortal rescuing a dead person and showing towards the light is  absolute rubbish

Evil mas murderer like Ted Bundy is rescued by another evil, but spiritual man and takes him where to the light

Ted Bundy is in hell
.
Think man , think??

I asked God for forgiveness for my confabulations over years and Bruce still has time to do the same!!

Seagull, I recommend you read the posting guidelines.  Invectives and name calling not allowed.  Also your amateur diagnoses are highly inappropriate. 

Seems also that you should familiarize yourself with the concept of PUL.  Your various posts are sadly lacking in it.

R

rondele wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 10:58am:

Now, now, there's nothing the combined forces of turning cheeks can't handle. Also, not withholding coats and shirts will dress others for success.

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 3:03pm:


I am at more peace than I have ever been during my long life of 75 years living a sometimes, terrifying South Africa

Quote:

Luke 6:29

Very truly I tell you, Alan, here a slap, there a slap, everywhere a slap. A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit of planks and crush them into specks of sawdust? A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart. Good is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into 50 pounds of flour until it spread through all of it.

Quote:

If you say/write it is up to us and you mean it is up to us, then it is up to us.

Ok, Alan. Do you have a purpose with your new posts? If so what is the purpose?

seagull wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 5:31pm:


Age has an awful lot to do with it, Bruce is running out of time to ask God for forgiveness, for holding lectures and publishing books for money when the content of them is just a product of his mind, the content of which has mislead many many people with total absent of truth!

I doubt that Bruce makes a lot of money from his books and workshops.

Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 4^th, 2016 at 7:50pm:

Quote:


from my experience, fundamentalism is all about light and noise and not so much about facts, logic and reason.

The noise is in the people, not in the scriptures. And emotionalism is in people generally, not just Christian people.

Many people who have struggled unsuccessfully for many years against personal issues such as alcohol, drugs, behavioural problems and personality maladjustments have found relief from their affliction through fundamentalist Christianity. Many fundamentalist churches have many such people who are examples of that. Personally I have known many habitual criminals, drug and alcohol addicts, and personality disorders of different kinds who have been relieved of their problem through fundamentalist Christianity - through handing their problem over to Christ. It is obvious to me that these people have been greatly changed for the better. And in a way that no clinical therapy could have achieved.   

When a person has struggled against a problem for many years, been in mental institutions, prisons, homeless, lost family and marriages, almost destroyed themselves, all the while struggling to free their self from their ways, but unable to, and then one day they walk past a church, hear singing and go it, or attend a prison service, and are compelled to kneel exhausted before Christ, confess their sins and their inability to combat them, and hand their sins and their life over to Christ, and then they are relieved of their problem and their life changes for the better, well we cannot blame them for being somewhat emotional about it.    

The fundamental Christian teachings as taught in the scriptures are not illogical when understood. Most of JCs short statements can be taken literally. The parables though are symbolic, and some of John's gospel is more gnostic or esoteric. I consider the scriptures to be true on their fundamental level as well as their more esoteric levels. It is up to the individual to read them carefully and contemplate them, and let them speak to him on his own level.

When I go to church or get together with some Christian friends I don't care if they are catholic, protestant, fundamentalist, or esoteric, it makes no difference to me. I have my own understanding of the scriptures and that is my own, and they have theirs. I speak to them in their words, and adjust my thinking to theirs so that we can communicate easily. The same when teaching meditation to hindus, yoga students, new agers, martial artists, psychs and counsellors, or when discussing concepts with esoteric types, the language of thought and words must be adjusted to suit the people we are with, but the essence of what we are discussing and communicating is the same. Only the dressing or clothing is different.

We wouldn't think mathematics was no good just because we knew a crowd of people who practiced it and who were unsavoury or illogical. For people and mathematics are two different things. And the mathematics is helping the people become more logical. And there is basic maths and there are algebraic maths and more abstract and esoteric maths that physicists use. But its all essentially in the basics. Just like esoteric spirituality is essentially in fundamental religious scripture. Advanced levels are only extrapolations of fundamentals. 

1796, you write about handing over sins/errors and life to Christ, similar to let go and let God. Do you know about the mechanics of how this works?

Quote:
    

...impose their world view on you...deny you your own freewill and free intellect ? ! 


When you're a child, maybe. But not when you're a mature adult. As adults we have our own minds. 

Don't be like those weak characters on this forum and elsewhere who are frequently bleating that others on the forum are somehow denying them their freewill and self determination, bullying them and imposing their beliefs on them. Those people are classic weak characters. They are victim minded and like it. They are grown up babies.   Don't be like them. 

Be your own man. Exercise your own freewill and free intellect.

Freewill isn't only about governing what you do and what comes from you. It is also about you governing what you take in and adopt.   

Alan could plaster his posts on the end of every thread in the forum and interject everywhere, and I couldn't care a dead rat if he did. He's not bothering me. Why should he bother you. Its only a web site. It cannot impose on you or your thinking unless you choose to take it in. Ignore him if you're not interested. Or switch off and go read a book, do a job or go for a walk.      

rondele wrote on Feb 5^th, 2016 at 1:28pm:


I have three good friends who are JW's. Three ladies. I have known one for 15 years. They visit me regularly and stay for several hours. I am honest with them about where I stand, but I do not reveal my occult knowledge. In real life I am most secretive about that. We sometimes meet in town. I attend their hall meetings occasionally. They know I'm not going to join the church but I do go along now and then. They like to dress well for meetings. I like that too. I enjoy putting on a suit. Sure, they think I'm missing out on something by not being a full member, but I don't mind. I understand them. They are good people. They do no harm.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/aac4716

http://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/2016-plomin.pdf

I believe in freedom of speech, but Alan just seems to be trolling.  If I were a moderator I would consider a suspension or ban of his account.  Just sayin.

Quote:


Agreed.  But perhaps it's like the student who jumps in front of the class, rips his clothes off and starts pissing on everyone.  It may not break you, but there might be a better way than sitting there getting pissed on.

Dude:

Do you have something against show and tell? 

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:

Fussy!

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 6:00pm: