Conversation Board - What is the real status of physical life ?

Justin

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #75 - Apr 14^th, 2016 at 9:30pm

Matthew may have been born into a Jewish family with Jewish upbringing, but in many ways, he is more truly Christian in essence than many of those that label themselves as such.

And ultimately being a true Christian is not about a name or label, but a way of living. A path of choosing, living, and attuning to what Bruce calls PUL. And in that sense, it's a Universal path and experience and does not require the name or label of "Christian".

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #76 - Apr 14^th, 2016 at 9:58pm

DocM wrote on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

Alan,

First of all, I'd appreciate your not bringing in anything to do with my personal life to the forum. The best conversations will discuss the facts, and the facts alone. I have read the New Testament several times. I find it to be beautiful and compelling. I also love the Tao Te Ching, and several texts from other religions.

Read my posts, and leave my personal background out of it. In the gospels Jesus gives countless of instances where he asks his followers not to judge others. Let he who is without sin among you throw the first stone (they all put down their stones. Why?) Judge not, less ye be judged. In Matthew 5:38 "You have heard it said, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

I can cite countless other examples "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.…

If you compare the rare instances in the gospels where Jesus speaks of punishment, it is not at all in the tenor of the Old Testament. Indeed with regard to one of his disciples taking up a sword in his defense and slicing an ear of a Roman soldier, he says "he who lives by the sword will die by the sword."

Alan, you should debate the issues. And refrain from speaking of me personally. If you notice, I am not one of those who speaks of your personal or private issues as others have done on the board. I will never take it there, and I'd appreciate your doing the same.

Matthew

Then that must also apply to me, I despise this constant reference by members about my bipolar disorder but they refuse to stop referring to it. If I show the slightest little bit of irritation , then I am manic or mildly manic .

My other point is you do not believe Jesus was the Messiah or Christ if you did you would have to distance yourself from Judaism.

I have mentioned to you on many occasions, that my late mother was a Jew of Polish origin and while she was no means orthodox her family was especially her mother was I never met her father he died young in a motorcycle accident.

Her mom and Dad met in London I am not sure if it was to escape the Nazi threat or look for a better life. Later they came to South Africa some time before I was born in 1940.

Her maiden name was Zidiraraski, she died at the age of 78 My dad also died at the age of 78, but he was twelve years older than my mother. My Dad was of Scottish decent and they met and fell in love during the 1930's An odd mix I know but it worked bringing with four other siblings.

If the process is the same I at my present age of 75.5 I have less than four years to live, sadly?

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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall

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DocM

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #77 - Apr 14^th, 2016 at 10:12pm

Alan,

Though born Jewish, I am not religious, and my beliefs are of a mixture of truths I have gathered from reading, and exploring. I believe that there is a great deal of truth in the christian bible - but that is my belief. I believe in the teachings of the gospels. But again, that should not matter. We should be able to discuss a topic without your mentioning any personal facts about me.

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heisenberg69

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #78 - Apr 15^th, 2016 at 1:46am

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 5:39pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 3:31pm:

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 3:01pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

Again, Alan all sounds very plausible and true to me - but what specifically it is that you have against afterlife exploration?, because nothing you have written here seems to contradict afterlife exploration such as obes. The evidence for psychic abilities, in general, is very strong and so you won't get any arguments from me about that. I can understand that one may want to exercise care when one is doing it, as you would travelling in a foreign land (maybe take a guide), but that would'nt put someone off travelling to another country - so why would we be put off investigating another reality?

We will have an eternity to explore the afterlife, but only after our in inevitable deaths and we should not be wasting our time on earth with things inscrutable and instead, we should savor each and every precious moment of our mortal lives in the confines of our mortal bodies.

The only way to truly know what comes after death is to die, everything else is just speculation?

That's a good question, why bother with this afterlife stuff?

Here are some examples I can think of:

- the mother wondering if her child killed in a hit and run is ok
-the man who's just been given the bad cancer diagnosis
-the woman who's fear of death blights her life
-the husband who has just lost his wife of 50 years
-the girl who just lost her best friend in a car crash
- anyone who fears the aging process

...In fact anyone who's mortal! I would say knowing where you are going helps you live fully in the present now without the fear that one strike and your out.

King David ofter losing his beloved little boy, put on sackcloth and ashes wept and mourned his passing for a week.

Then to the amazement of his subjects cleaned up washed and put back his royal attire.

The asked him " Mighty King" why have you stopped mourning the tragic death of your baby boy so early"/

His wise reply was "because he cant come to me, one joyful day I will go to him (After Davids own death)

Below are items from your post and my response to each one

- the mother wondering if her child killed in a hit and run is ok

"Jesus said blessed are the little children for of such is is the Kingdom of Heaven, she need not ask he is safe n the Arms of God.

If her child were a cannibal serial killer like Jeffry Dharma then it is a moot point he is in hell

-the man who's just been given the bad cancer diagnosis, not only cancer victims die we all die,

Tell him he is still alive and must make the best of his life because only God, will decide when he will actually die not his oncologist

-the woman who's fear of death blights her life

She needs faith in God only that will remove her fear of death. Jesus said when I have defeated the final enemy which is death I will hand everything back to the Father and we will become One

-the husband who has just lost his wife of 50 years.

That is not the end of his life his wife would want him to continue on without her and find new meaning for his existence Regardless they will meet again the moment right after his own death, it is just a temporary separation,not eternal

-the girl who just lost her best friend in a car crash

. Should you conjure up the ghost of her best friend to make her feel better, like all the others they will meet again

- anyone who fears the aging process

.I am over 75 years of age and have absolutely no fear of the aging process or of actual death' I feared death when I was much, much younger and am both resigned and peaceful about it now in my old age.

The above may apply to people of deep religious faith but what of the many people with little or none? People who are not happy to go on what someone from a different time and culture said thousands of years ago to decide what they believe today. People who let their own personal experience lead them.

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heisenberg69

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #79 - Apr 15^th, 2016 at 11:43am

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 15^th, 2016 at 2:50am:

Quote:

Matthew may have been born into a Jewish family with Jewish upbringing, but in many ways, he is more truly Christian in essence than many of those that label themselves as such.

And ultimately being a true Christian is not about a name or label, but a way of living. A path of choosing, living, and attuning to what Bruce calls PUL. And in that sense, it's a Universal path and experience and does not require the name or label of "Christian".

While I respect Matthew as a good person again you do not understand why Jesus came to save us from ourselves.

Bruces PUL does not exist in any human person and that untrue acronym makes me want to puke.

PUL IS AN ATTRIBUTE FOUND ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY IN THE MIND OF GOD

Almighty God is Infinitely Holy he is Light and in Him is no darkness whatsoever.

The goodness of man is like filthy rags to God period

We humans are full of darkness and we simply cannot invade his light with our relatively dark souls.

We can't work ourselves by good works to obtain Gods approval

There is an almost infinite abyss separating God from man , which even by our best effort we simply can never jump across.

How then do we cross this infinite divide, by truly loving and trusting Jesus to be who he said he is Almighty God incarnated.

if you love and obey God, then Jesus sort of will lay down as a bridge (Symbolically) , declare, although guilty innocent and allow up to walk on his hypothetical back which forms the final bridge between man and God finally reach God.

The mystery of the Cross and the Resurrection?

Presumeably then if Jeffrey Dahmer or any other unpleasant character for that matter, repents his sins and comes to love and accept Jesus he would be spared eternal torment?

'Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:39-43'

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heisenberg69

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #80 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 12:05pm

Alan-

you can go on giving example after example of people who commit heinous acts if you want to. I am a keen amateur historian and can cite you many examples of such acts throughout history.Did you know for example that under Henry VIII boiling people alive was a legal form of punishment i.e. a state sanctioned act. But it really is best not to dwell on the inhumane things people do to each other, whether they think its justified or not. Unfortunately there are all too many examples of them. Even our own so-called 'civilised' governments are not above simulated drowning people when it suits them.

The point I am making is that under the view you are promoting man is essentially evil and it is only through submitting to Jesus that he can be saved; this means that anyone's actions are of negligible effect to their outcome.This means that it matters not a jot what you, Alan, think about whether they are worthy of saving or not; under the scheme you propose its is Jesus's call.If they truly repent and put themselves at His mercy then there are no actions which cannot be forgiven. It is the logical consequence of the view you propose.

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heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: What is the real status of physical life ? Reply #81 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 5:27pm 'PUL EXISTS ONLY IN THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD PERIOD' PUL=Pure unconditional love. The key word is unconditional i.e without conditions. Therefore there are no actions 'THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD' cannot forgive. It is a necessary consequence of what you are saying.
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Rondele Ex Member	Re: What is the real status of physical life ? Reply #82 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 9:01pm Love, because it's a state of being and not an emotion, cannot be modified. If it's impure, it's not love. If it's conditional, it's not love. PUL, therefore, is a redundant term. It may apply to human emotions, but not to God. Love, in that sense, simply is.. R
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heisenberg69

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #83 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 2:48am

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 16^th, 2016 at 10:54pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2016 at 5:27pm:

'PUL EXISTS ONLY IN THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD PERIOD'

PUL=Pure unconditional love. The key word is unconditional i.e without conditions. Therefore there are no actions 'THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD' cannot forgive. It is a necessary consequence of what you are saying.

Yes Gods LOVE is conditional,l but to those that love and obey his love is unconditional is that so hard to understand?

Put it this way- if I had a friend (or anyone else for that matter) and said I love you unconditionally on the condition that you love and obey me that is not unconditional love.Unconditional love says even if you hate me and wish me harm I still love you.That is a God level of love, but it is not confined to God, humans can display it too.Supposing a son hates his mother and wishes her harm because he (mistakenly) thinks she drove his father away; his mother can still choose to love her hating son anyway.

Why do you make God so small? Your conception of God reminds me of how the ancient Greeks thought of their gods Zeus, Apollo, Aries etc. They were seen as immortal and had enormous power but they exhibited the all too human emotions of anger and jealousy, ready to strike down any mortal foolish enough not to give them their due. You can conceive of God any way you see fit Alan but I would be asking myself where I got such a view from.

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« Last Edit: Apr 17^th, 2016 at 6:37am by heisenberg69 »

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heisenberg69

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #84 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 7:21am

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 17^th, 2016 at 7:06am:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 17^th, 2016 at 2:48am:

Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 16^th, 2016 at 10:54pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2016 at 5:27pm:

'PUL EXISTS ONLY IN THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD PERIOD'

PUL=Pure unconditional love. The key word is unconditional i.e without conditions. Therefore there are no actions 'THE PERSON OF ALMIGHTY GOD' cannot forgive. It is a necessary consequence of what you are saying.

Yes Gods LOVE is conditional,l but to those that love and obey his love is unconditional is that so hard to understand?

Put it this way- if I had a friend (or anyone else for that matter) and said I love you unconditionally on the condition that you love and obey me that is not unconditional love.Unconditional love says even if you hate me and wish me harm I still love you.That is a God level of love, but it is not confined to God, humans can display it too.Supposing a son hates his mother and wishes her harm because he (mistakenly) thinks she drove his father away; his mother can still choose to love her hating son anyway.

Why do you make God so small? Your conception of God reminds me of how the ancient Greeks thought of their gods Zeus, Apollo, Aries etc. They were seen as immortal and had enormous power but they exhibited the all too human emotions of anger and jealousy, ready to strike down any mortal foolish enough not to give them their due. You can conceive of God any way you see fit Alan but I would be asking myself where I got such a view from.

God is Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent, that is what I believe. Only God is Almighty so stop insulting me by telling me I have reduces the Infinite to the imaginary rubbish of Greek Mythology Zeus, Apolo or Aries who you seem to be an authority on.

EVIL BEASTS IN HUMAN FORM LIKE TED BUNDY AND HITLER WILL BE PUNISHED FOREVER, THEY DID NOT REPENT AND IF THE DID IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A FALSE REPENTANCE

God is Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent but still won't or can't forgive Ted Bundy. Oh well Alan, have it your way.Whatever, you are loved anyway.

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