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What is the real status of physical life ? (Read 39155 times)
anondoraja
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What is the real status of physical life ?
Dec 7th, 2015 at 4:17pm
 
Some sources claim that , physical immortality is the ultimate goal and This earth is the real heaven . Definitely , this is a totally contradictory viewpoint from the Vedantic or ACIM philosophies who profess that this earth life is illusion and dream. People like Bruce Moen wants to come back to earth again and again . Whereas some new age thinkers are totally opposing the idea of reincarnation. So what is the real value / status of earth life?  Physical Immortalists view earth / physical life as Divine and Sacred whereas ACIM people say it is meaningless , illusion and without any purpose. So many contradictory viewpoints !!!!!
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recoverer
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #1 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 8:22pm
 
I can't say I agree with the ACIM/Vendantic viewpoints which are quite similar, despite differing verbiage.

Awareness, mind and the ability to create all have the same source.

This World helps our souls grow and become wiser, so it is more than a meaningless illusion as ACIM and Vedanta state.

Regarding something being real versus not real, this is a distinction the human mind makes when it views things in a limited way. There is simply existence, and it can seem gross as we experience in this "physical" world, and it can seem more subtle as experienced in a high level spirit realm. In each case the same basic beingness is utilized.

Regarding reincarnating repeatedly or becoming one with Source forever, it is a matter of how one believes true fulfillment can be found.  A lot of people search for love in this world through relationships, as if love is the most fulfilling thing they can experience. Are human-based relationships the most fulfilling way to find love, or is there a way that is much more expansive and that doesn't include the limitations that human relationships often include?


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seagull
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #2 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 4:52am
 
Real or illusion depends on your point of view. If you are reading a very absorbing book and are imagining the plot vividly you may still have some awareness of the room around you, but you can be very caught up in the story.

When you put the book down you may forget about it for a time unless you pick it back up, when you can turn to any page and relive it. Later in life you may have less interest in the book, no matter how interesting it was at one time. However, someone else may receive benefit or enjoyment from it.

Now, if you turn the book into a play and act it out, that puts a different spin on it. The creative possibilities are changed. Things can happen, people can go off script on purpose or on accident, the audience can get involved, etc. etc.

Looking out into nature and at our lives one can see how endlessly creative life can be.

From that perspective I can get a small, very tiny glimpse into how "real" and "illusion" are just words. What might be interesting to consider is what endures?

It is clear that the ultimate source of life is very loving, and that love permeates all being. You could say that love is what endures, so love is what is real. 

Our relationships here on earth are just fragments of something much greater, incomprehensively greater. It is helpful to remind oneself of that, so as not to be overwhelmingly disappointed when things don't work out to one's advantage here, which can easily happen.

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Ambivalent
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #3 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 6:03pm
 
Try telling your mother that she really is an oversoul and that you were her mother in another lifetime (she was a he, your son), and then try not to get in an argument who's the real mother.

...
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seagull
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #4 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 8:57pm
 
Cute picture. Looks kind of like me *sometimes* when I'm reading this forum... Grin
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1796
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #5 - Dec 11th, 2015 at 8:33am
 
anondoraja wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 4:17pm:
Some sources claim that , physical immortality is the ultimate goal and This earth is the real heaven . Definitely , this is a totally contradictory viewpoint from the Vedantic or ACIM philosophies who profess that this earth life is illusion and dream.


In a sense, they are all true.

It is like one man arguing that a motorcar runs on petrol, while another argues it runs on water, while another argues it runs on oil, while another argues it runs on air, while another argues it runs on electricity. In fact, it runs on all of these. Take any one away, and the car either won't start or won't go far before its stops dead. 
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Rondele
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #6 - Dec 11th, 2015 at 12:14pm
 
1796- I'm guessing the crucifixion was both symbolic and an actual event?  As was perhaps the resurrection?  And even the Christ?

R
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1796
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #7 - Dec 11th, 2015 at 8:44pm
 
rondele wrote on Dec 11th, 2015 at 12:14pm:
1796- I'm guessing the crucifixion was both symbolic and an actual event?  As was perhaps the resurrection?  And even the Christ?

R


Exactly.

There is nothing that is not both symbolic and actual, because there is more to everything than meets the eye.

Naturally, the more significant, influential and impacting, the item is, the more symbolism there is within and behind it. Of put another way, the more there is of it that is unseen.

I understand everything about the Jesus story as being actually true, as in fundamentally and literally, and also symbolically and esoterically. That is why I am happy in congregation with any sort of Christians, whether Fundamentalist, Anglican, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox. To me they are all real and beautiful.   

Everyone exposed to the Jesus story, whether they like it or not, whether they see it as true or not, whether they accept its message or not, or believe it or not, develops a discernible cross on their soul in their forehead that grows up from out of their heart.

There is no getting away from that. The western world is the Christianised world, is Christendom, and every western soul has this cross within it. Including western atheists, humanitarians, spiritual-but-not-religious anti-Christians who despise Christianity and think they have some better or higher social or spiritual alternative. If they could see their own soul they would not like it. In fact, they can sense it and they do not like it. But too bad for them, like or not, every western soul is Christianised and carries in its heart and on its forehead the cross of Christ. And will be judged by it.

Every western soul has a body of mind, emotion and physicality that is being steadily crucified upon the cross in their soul - a real cross that grows from out the heart up to the head, and that non-westernised/non-Christianised souls do not have.   
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Rondele
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #8 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 10:52am
 
<<Every western soul has a body of mind, emotion and physicality that is being steadily crucified upon the cross in their soul - a real cross that grows from out the heart up to the head, and that non-westernised/non-Christianised souls do not have>>

I'm having trouble understanding this.  The original Christians were middle eastern.  What is unique about western souls?  Aren't souls independent of geography?  Or are you saying it's no accident in terms of where they incarnate?

R
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #9 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 1:07pm
 
1796:

I don't get it. Sometimes you express a strong sense of distaste for people such as those who are atheists. Yet you had an OBE where you said you were forced to experience a negative past life so you would stop being judgemental towards others. What is the deal here?

I really doubt that Jesus feels judgment towards such people. I say that, yet I had an experience that sort of relates to what you said about westerners having a cross within them. The below if from my book "A Night in Heaven."

"As I opened up to finding out what Christ is about, I noticed that some heart chakra blocks cleared for me. One night I was reading Elaine Pagel’s book The Gnostic Gospels. She wrote that the Gospel of Thomas speaks of Jesus as an enlightened man; the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke speak of Jesus as a messenger of God; and the Gospel of John speaks of Jesus as God himself. Before I went to bed that night I prayed and asked for a dream which told me which version is true. In the middle of the night I woke up so I could write notes about a dream I had. I turned on my night lamp, grabbed a pen and my dream journal, and before I could write anything I saw a light flash. Before this event I had seen spirits appear as flashing points of light on numerous occasions; however, the light I saw on this occasion was much bigger than any flash I had seen before, and radiated much more energy. It felt divine. It felt more real than the physical world. I laughed to myself and thought, “And some people don’t believe in the world of spirit. How could it be doubted?” I forgot about my dream notes, put away my pen and dream journal, turned off my night lamp, and lay on my side. I was overcome by the energy of the spirit presence that visited me.

I didn’t see or hear Jesus; nevertheless, I felt that I was experiencing the presence of his spirit partly because this seemed like a likely response to my prayer, and partly because of a deeper understanding that is hard to completely re-experience simply by thinking about it. I felt a lot of love, humility, reverence and gratitude towards Christ as I experienced his presence. I felt so honored that he took the time to visit me. His energy worked on my upper four chakras  for about 10 to 15 minutes in a manner that went beyond how kundalini ever did so. Ever since this event occurred the energetic flow in my upper chakras has been more clear, balanced and alive. It is almost as if there are energetic pathways that serve the purpose of making an energetic connection to Christ.

I still can’t say for certain which gospel is more accurate when it comes to who Christ is. Nevertheless, this experience gave me the impression that the spirit of Christ can visit anybody he wants to visit, and probably as many people as he wants to visit. I don’t believe that Christ’s entire spirit visited me on this occasion. I figure he is a very vast Being who extended a part of himself to where my energy signature was. Since this occasion, his presence has visited me a number of times. There were occasions where my energy with the assistance of his presence pushed towards my crown chakra with such force--I thought my head would come off. Eventually the energetic blocks in my head area cleared, so intense sessions are no longer needed."
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doodad
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #10 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 4:51pm
 
Quote:
I'm having trouble understanding this.


Ha, you and me both.  Wink

   Now, I'm not throwing stones at 1796, as I appreciate what he has to say and hope he fleshes it out. I am very willing to listen and learn. I understand things can be actual events, say the Crucifixion, and also symbolize something else. That is what Christianity says much of the Bible does. For example, Moses' serpent on the pole (if actual) represented Christ.
   What I don't get is how a mythical event can be actual and symbolical. Telling me the Creation story is accurate and symbolical is like telling me the statements "the earth is flat" or "the moon is made of cheese" are accurate and symbolical. As far as being accurate, both statements are falsifiable. They may be symbolical of something, but they are not literally accurate.

Quote:
What is unique about western souls?  Aren't souls independent of geography?  Or are you saying it's no accident in terms of where they incarnate?


Agreed. I am partial to Christianity myself as I grew up that way and still consider myself a Christian to some extent. However, it seems to me that a Buddhist view of reality, for example, more accurately represents how things really are than the Christian teaching.

Like I said, I'm open to learn. I just don't understand the riddles yet.  Smiley
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Rondele
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #11 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 5:48pm
 
Maybe 1796 is just testing us to see if we're paying attention. Sort of like the wife who complains her husband never listens to her, so she tells him she wrecked the car and he says "that's nice, dear".

Btw I agree that 1796 (cb) has written some of the most thought provoking posts in a long time, and I definitely want him to stick around.

R

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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #12 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 2:09pm
 
I don't know how 1796 came up with the cross within viewpoint. Perhaps he was shown a symbolic representation. Christ Consciousness (love-based consciousness) abides in all of us (including non-Westerners). It is a matter of whether we avail ourselves to it. I believe that there are a lot of beings that exist at Christ Consciousness level. Such level of existence doesn't belong to one religion. Such level of existence includes tolerance for others.

The below is also from my "Night in Heaven" book.  Should the part about Jesus be considered literally, symbollically, or both?

"On another occasion as I lay in bed awake with my eyes closed I was shown a life-size image of a heavy metal rocker dude. I could see kundalini flowing within him (please see the previous chapter for information about kundalini). He said: “I use my kundalini for evil.” Next I was shown a demonic image of myself. Next I was shown the face of Jesus Christ. At the time I believed this meant that if I’m going to go through the kundalini ascension process, I better make certain I do so with Christ consciousness/love in mind, because the creative aspect of being can be used in different ways. After I started to receive messages about Christ, I figured that perhaps this message also served the purpose of letting me know about Christ."
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1796
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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 6:37am
 
The cross is real and actual. Not figurative.

The cross is as described, within the soul, and arising from the heart to the head. 

I don't blame others for finding it hard to comprehend. I would not be able to comprehend it either if I had not seen it for myself many times, and from different angles too, and also come to understand its causes, function and purpose.

It defies spatial understanding as we know it. My other post on symbolism (on the visualising disks thread) also describes how shapes and numbers take on forms in some dimensions that are almost incomprehensible without seeing them for oneself, and even then they are difficult to grasp. I cannot expect others to fully comprehend such things if they have not seen them, but I might be able to describe some of the main details and provide a rough glimpse of what the structure is about.

The cross-arms of the soul are “lines of reach” and “potential reach” of heart and mind that lie dormant in all souls but are made active in Christianised souls.

These "lines of reach" and "potential reach" are the "energetic reaches" of heart and mind as existent within the individual between the extremes of right and wrong, good and evil, truth and falsity.

All things are parts of spectrums, and naturally there is a spectrum between the completely dormant and the fully open cross. The average reach of left and right of the cross-arms varies from race to race and from nation to nation, is a collective average, and the width and degree of activation of the cross in an individual depends upon the extent of the individual's comprehension of truth, love and goodness, and their opposites.      

One reach is to the left, the other to the right. Bear in mind that as high and low in a three dimensional sense are different to, but reflective of high and low in a spiritual sense, so too, left and right are different to, but reflective of left and right in a spiritual sense. (Through several dozen statements sprinkled through the book, the old and new testaments describe the nature of this left and right spiritual sense very well.)

The cross is caused to activate in the heart by Christ's introduction to the minds and hearts of men of the concept of divine love being possible to be exercised by man. And with conceiving that possibility comes also into the hearts and minds of men its opposite concept - the rejection of it and the pretence of it. These two concepts came into the world together, one with the other, for it is impossible to teach something good without also revealing something bad. John speaks of this twofold effect in 1 & 2 John.    

Every soul has a vertical dimension to it, that is, an up and down reach.

The soul within man runs between the crown and base centre, passing through each of the other centres. Each centre is a segment of the soul's cord. The soul is both spherical and cordlike, as a staff is both round in cross section and long in length, but a staff is three dimensional and the soul is multidimensional, so the soul is spherical in cross section.

The cross is within the vertical structure of the soul, and cross it and stems from it too, arising from heart up to the head. The cross arms are in the heart and in the head, and even at the shoulders and throat, and yet they are all one cross-arm. That sounds illogical I know, but I can't explain it better than that just now, except to say that they are also like plates. I remind readers I am speaking of energetic structures but they do have form. 

The cross replicates itself in the shape of the body with outstretched left and right arms, also in the features of the face, being the facial midline and the eyes, and reflects itself in the relationship between the ethmoid bone and the frontal face of the maxilla. Where is arises from the heart centre it replicates in the physical heart which can be seen in cross section where the walls of the heart's four chambers are cruciform.

Each of these physical structures has an energetic structure connecting it to the cross, and this can be observed by sliding the vision up and down scale of energetic frequencies when we are out of body or if we have developed second sight.

Bear in mind that every structure in the soul with every flow and potential flow of energy and the interactions of those energies is replicated or reflected in the anatomy and physiology of the physical body, also in the mental and emotional bodies, each in accordance with the nature of their substance and their purpose and requirements. Each of these replications, reflections, imprints,...  are living actual symbols of the greater item which is their cause. 


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Re: What is the real status of physical life ?
Reply #14 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 1:48pm
 
1796:

I haven't seen what you've seen so I can't confirm things that way.

As two of my earlier posts seem to suggest, it does seem as if it is possible to make an energetic connection to Christ. He might be a representative to the highest level of consciousness and by opening ourselves to him we open up to that level of consciousness. We do have the option of choosing differently, and that option can be quite negative.

Below is some more from my book "A Night in Heaven."

"After becoming clear about the above, I started to wonder who Jesus Christ is. What role did he play while in this world and what role does he play today? One day I went for a walk and directed my thoughts toward God. I told him, “Whatever your will is, I’m respectful towards it. However, I can’t believe what some people believe about Christ, simply because the Bible says so. I would be lying to you and myself if I made such an assertion. I’m well aware that the Bible was put together by numerous men and has gone through a number of translations. Therefore, it might be mistaken about Christ.” When I did this I was sincere about receiving the answer, regardless of what the answer would be.
     It didn’t take long before I started to receive answers. One night as I lay in bed I was shown a crucifix; I asked, “Why?” I was then shown a manikin with no legs, no arms and no head placed on a stand that stood on a department store floor. On this manikin was a sleeveless white fur coat with black polka dots. The meaning of this image might not seem obvious, but I understood it quickly: “They killed him (Jesus), they put him on display, they spotted his reputation.” Next I experienced myself press the high C note on my piano (non-physically). This meant that Christ represents the highest consciousness level there is. Regarding the spot his reputation part of the message, I’ll speak about this in a little while.
     Some of the messages I received were simple. One time I was shown the words, “Jesus saves.” On another occasion I saw the words, “Accept Christ.” One time I was shown a golden crucifix. One night I had a dream where a very loving young lady walked around an amusement park and handed people including me a piece of paper which said: “Jesus saves.” (More about this later, I provide an untypical and nonfundamentalist interpretation of what “Jesus saves” means.)
     During the same period of time I remembered a couple of messages I had received before I told God that I was open to finding out what Christ is about. On one occasion while in a non-physical state I tried to help a stuck spirit  move on towards the light. We stood at the edge of a cliff by an ocean. While I was speaking to him (telepathically) he jumped into the water down below. I jumped in after him and there were a lot of large rocks. I spoke to him while under water, and suddenly we were at the top of the cliff again. I got the impression that he had committed suicide by jumping off the cliff, and was repeating the experience. While I spoke to him a second time at the top of the cliff, he started to ignore me because across a bay to my left (the ocean was to my right), the image of Jesus appeared. Gold light radiated from Jesus and filled the scene. When the man I tried to help saw Jesus he forgot all about me and floated to where Jesus was. It took him a short amount of time to traverse the distance even though it didn't seem as if he moved with great speed. (I guess linear 3D reality had little to do with what I experienced.)
     The gold light that radiated from Jesus wasn't made up of beams of light as one might expect. Instead I saw numerous waves of light. Why? Perhaps because the high-level spirit being I worked with understood that if I saw waves of light rather than expected beams of light, I might be more prone to understand that more than the random meanderings of my subconscious mind were involved. Weight is added to this conclusion when I consider how some of my other retrieval experiences manifested.  I must add that this wasn't a dream. It happened while I was meditating, and the experience was quite conscious.
     
.....

     During this same time period I started to remember my Night in Heaven experience more completely. I remembered the part where I had found out about Christ. I also remembered that during the experience there was no doubt about what I had understood. I didn’t receive a lot of details, but I understood that the person of Jesus Christ did in fact exist, and in some way he is a part of higher spiritual truth."

I'd like to add something that I didn't say in my book. I've had experiences with the spirit of Jesus and he radiated a really nice feeling.  A level of divinity that people found very pleasing. Yet, he was very humble and down to Earth. He didn't seem like a being who would want to be treated in a worshipful way.
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