We each have a mental-emotional body, we can also call it an astral body, which is comprised of all the thoughts and emotions that we have ever had. Its substance circulates through the centres, like the material blood circulates through the heart, and like other bodily substances circulate or express through and get processed through their respective organs. Each centre has its intake and output. Mental energy/substance circulates through the head centre; emotional energy/substance circulates through the solar plexus centre. The output is at the front of the centre, where the centre expresses itself. The intake is at the back of the centre. At the back of the head and solar plexus centres are storage places, and it is in these storage places where every thought and emotion ever experienced is stored and arranged in order according to spectrums and frequency. The Planet's astral planes are collective reproductions and amalgamations of every person's mental-emotional bodies. Just as every thought and emotion that an individual has ever had is stored within his mental-emotional makeup, so every thought and emotion that every person on Earth has had is stored or replicated in the astral planes. The planet's astral planes are the collective mental emotional bodies (or astral bodies) of all humanity. Even where thoughts have long since not been consciously expressed and their matter/energy has broken down and returned to its natural state on its own plane, it leaves an imprint on an imprinting surface of what it was. These planes fill the space around the globe like radio frequencies. Tuning with them is a matter of being familiar with the mechanism of your own makeup and the frequencies within and around yourself. Firstly one must learn to differentiate their conscious self from their surroundings, including their thoughts, feelings and emotions; that is, know your self. From that foundation, which is the seat of observation and control, is from where things are done. Study yourself, value truth, whatever truth may be. Cultivate a sense of conscious deliberation in all tasks; of operating your self. Attend well to relationships and life duties. Leaving the body is fairly easy, if not automatic, if these things are done, and provided leaving the body is permissible in your life. We cannot consciously leave the body if we are not generally conscious, for it is the intensity and potency of the daily consciousness that enables it to leave the body. This condition of the consciousness counts for more than technique. Most people are seldom conscious; they go about on auto pilot, acting and thinking automatically. Such people seldom consciously leave the body, and if they did they seldom notice it. People who can leave the body are most often conscious of their self and surroundings. When the consciousness is suitably conditioned, and if leaving the body is ok with one's higher soul, then leaving the body may occur without much effort. Our higher self is the part of consciousness above the conscience or crown centre, from which we are an extension on the plane of Earth, and out of body excursions and lessons are for our best when our consciousness has learnt to tune itself with its higher self, and then the two cooperate. The cooperating part is up to our self as individuals. Conscience is the communicating link between the two. The heart is the centre of mutual expression.                

1796- It's not clear (at least to me) whether you personally have had OBEs.  Assuming you have, I'm wondering if you set up a way in which you could verify that you were in fact out of body.

Sometime ago a hospital got attention for its plan to see if it could verify accounts of patients who claimed such experiences.  Sorry, can't recall details, maybe someone else can provide them.

In any case have you verified your OBEs (assuming you've had them)?  Such as having a friend write either a secret word or other code and place the paper in a remote location where it would only be accessible while out of body?

Seems that OBEs should be reasonably easy to verify, but in all the years I've followed this subject I don't recall any conclusive evidence being presented and documented.

Can't help but wonder why, other than books by Wm. Buhlman who stated that objects while OOB take on a different appearance.  For example, the sofa might be in its familiar location but it has a different shape, color or other characteristics.  Could that be a possible explanation?

R

Guess I should add, for verification once I decided to go out to the parking lot (OBE) of an unfamiliar place and see if I could identity the last car in a row.  It was night.  I found I couldn't really make anything out.  The next morning when I went to check it out, I saw the vehicle was black.

The next night I tried it again.  This time I made out a silver sedan.... thought I might recognize the model, but I was not seeing in full view, more like looking through a telescope.  Tried to see the license plate but it was like needing glasses - could make much out.   The next day I went to check the end car, and it was silver, but there were two silver cars.  It seem I had seen parts of both cars and assumed there was one silver car I must have incorrectly tried to determine the model from the composite of two cars.  So perception isn't the best.  However, as one of my mentor beings explained early on, one shouldn't expect to "see" as one would with one's eyes.  How well do you see when you dream?  Sometimes very clearly other times not.

Now I generally leave this plane all together; just not interested in traveling here.  Out "There", I sometimes allow myself to simply drift, or race, forward, or upward, and simply  find what I may encounter.  Sometimes going too fast and blasting past something only to find I'm not good at turning around an re-finding the spot.   

Lastly, I don't bother going anywhere OBE, I am moving trans-consciously through levels (if I may use that terminology). Generally I'm trying to meet someone, rather then visit someplace.   And often I am meeting some in simply a mind-to-mind contact.  Many other times, there will be visual contexts along with the conversations and the conversations are more audible.  At first I was taken to those places and encounters.  I could not get there on my own.

Go a million places?  More Internet hype.

PM me if you wish more details and explanations. - Bill

rondele wrote on Jul 24^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:


Many hospitals have unusual objects or cards with symbols or numbers on them positioned in their operating theatres in such places as can only be seen from the ceiling. These items are to assist in verifying patient's accounts if they claim to have been out of body.

Two neuroscientists from a major state hospital brought a van load of imaging, EEG and other equipment to my house and stayed for a weekend. I was like a guinea pig for two days, meditating and sleeping while they imaged the house and my brain. Nothing much came of it as far as verifying any out of body activity but we became good friends.    

Some reasons why verification of full conscious out of body excursions (obe’s) is difficult:

Following are some analogies:

The fish has a body that is suitable for the medium of water. Imagine a deep water fish that could leave its body, but when it left its body suitable for the medium of water it found it was in a body suitable for the medium of air, and had immediately risen out of the water and was flying in the air above land and sea. Afterwards the fish told the other fish down in the deep ocean that it had left its body and saw wonderful sights, and they said, if you can leave your body then surely you can verify it by telling us the secret number that we have put under this stone on the ocean floor.
   
Also: Consciously leaving the body is mostly done in conscious cooperation with one’s oversoul. The oversoul is the consciousness from which our own consciousness extends, and between it and our self is conscience. One must tune oneself with conscience, and with oversoul, that is, hand oneself over to its will and purpose, and if in doing that, leaving the body is permissible and beneficial, then leaving the body may proceed. It is not so much our own will that causes our self to leave the body, but the will of our oversoul; and only within the extent that we reflect and tune our-will with that-will do we have control over leaving the body.

The oversoul from which we extend has no interest in verifying to extensions (other people) from other oversouls that it can extract one of its own extensions (our self) from our body. Just as you have no interest to prove to other people’s feet that you can pull one of your own feet from its shoe. Even if your foot said to you, “Let me prove to other feet that I can leave my shoe,” you would probably reply to your foot, “We have more important things to do than that, for when I take you out of your shoe it is to take you places where you cannot go while in your shoe, to show you things that otherwise you cannot see.” Leaving your body is like your oversoul taking its foot out of its shoe. For we each are like a pseudopod.

And if your gloved hand said to you, “Help me prove to other gloved hands that you can pull me out of my glove,” then you would say to your hand, “When I put you in a glove it is so you can work for me and do things with a glove on that you could not do without a glove. And when I take you out of your glove it is so that you can sense fine things and do fine work for me that you cannot do when in your glove. I do not take you out of your glove for you to prove to other hands in their gloves that I can take you out of yours.” For when we learn to tune our self with our oversoul then we become like a hand of our oversoul. And leaving the body is like our oversoul taking its hand out of a glove.

If you are a tradesman who works for a boss and wears your boss's uniform, and while you are working for your boss someone asks you to do a job for them, and you say, “Certainly I will do that job for you”, and you do the job on the side and take the person’s payment for yourself, and your boss finds out you did that, then he will consider you lacking in moral integrity, untrustworthy, and he may give you dull work to do and will not further train you or promote you, or he may sack you, for you have stolen his customer and taken money and credit that rightly belongs to your boss. But if when the person asked you to do the job, you replied, “I am employed by my boss so I will ask him if he can send someone to do the job for you.” Then when you report to your boss that you know someone who wants a job done he will send you or another of his tradesmen in company uniform to do the job. And if you tell your boss you would like to do the job yourself then your boss will likely allocate the job to you, for your pleasure doing his work is his pleasure too; and he may also tell you to give the customer a discount or an extra service, for he knows he may not have received their custom if not for your honesty, and he will reward you for being trustworthy and bringing business to his company, so you will be given further training, offered promotions, and given more freedom in your work because you are trustworthy and good for the company. For we are like an employee of our oversoul which is our employer. When working well for our employer we only work within the bounds of what our employer wants, but if we make our interests in line with his interests then he will oblige us and reward us as well.  Our conscience is our radio for communicating with our employer; our heart is our most significant tool of trade.

The relationship between soul and oversoul is similar to the relationship between the Son and the Father as described in the Gospel of John.

Nearly all my obe’s are to attend classes or lessons, and they are all done in cooperation with my oversoul. These are just a few examples that show that they are not the sort of thing that one can just interrupt to go and verify a secret number hidden somewhere. And I certainly would not do so, for the lesson of the excursion for me is far more valuable than verifying some number to someone else, which seems so petty in comparison to such wonderful lessons. 
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/20/616/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/mother-earth-breath-life-and-god/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/the-picture-book/
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/spirals-of-time/

Imagine in the middle of obe’s like those, or any other lessons, telling your oversoul to stop the process because you have to read a secret number in a box to tell the number to your friend who wants you to verify it for him. The process would stop alright, and probably never happen again. For it would be as if your boss offered you a special day as training for promotion, and instead of attending you decided to go home and tell your friend about it, and then you miss the opportunity and lose the trust of your boss.
 
So the mindset in which it seems reasonable to verify the OBE to others, cannot easily leave the body; and the mindset to which leaving the body is possible, cannot easily verify it to others. For when it leaves the body such great and wonderful things fill its attention that the things that were reasonable before immediately pale into insignificance.

Mutual excursions:
There is though, an interesting form of possible verification of out of body excursion and that is mutual out of body excursions, whereby two souls leave their bodies together, and can then discuss the experience afterwards. (Remember the fish that leaves its body and finds itself in another medium flying over the land and cannot verify the number put under the stone on the ocean floor, but it might go out of body with another fish and they fly over the land together and verify the experience to each other.) When leaving the body together, both may be consciously out of body, or one person may be semi-conscious and experience the out-of-body excursion as a dream and the other may experience it as a conscious out of body excursion. Or both may experience it as the same dream, and with repetition and time this can help train them in differentiating between types of dreams and OBE’s. Naturally each person experiences the same dream from their own perspective. I have done this mutual verification many times, mostly with one other person, and several times with others. Telling another person their dream is not all fun and games though, there are significant issues involved.    

Communication while out of body:
Also, there exists a definite obstacle to two people being able to consciously leave their bodies together, and that obstacle is the way communication takes place while out of body. When out of body, communication happens just by looking at each other and being in each other’s presence or attention. And out of body communication exchanges huge amounts of information instantly. This not only means that thoughts fly between the couple rapidly, which can be overwhelming, but most significantly, it means that at a glance one can know the entire interior of the other person, all the thoughts and desires they have ever had, and the entire makeup of their personality energy. Most people keep much of their self hidden from others, so as much as they might superficially imagine it would be nice to go out of body with someone else, they actually would not enjoy being consciously out of body with someone else because of revealing their entire self. There is a lot in most people's personality that they don't even want to face up to themselves, let alone reveal it to someone else. Also the subconscious has two automated prime roles, being storekeeper and defender. The subconscious senses beforehand the vulnerability associated with being consciously out of body with someone else and disallows it before it happens. This is also the reason why we cannot get close to someone without their permission when we are full consciously out of body – their subconscious puts out a barrier that prevents it, and if we press the matter their subconscious will knock us back so hard that we will probably bounce back to our body and never be able to leave our body again. The only way around this obstacle is through love, with genuine understanding and forgiveness. The subconscious recognises genuine love, like a key or password, and allows contact. Subconscious may also allow contact with a semiconscious or unconscious person, where there is no active intellect or freewill control, therefore mutual dreams or semi-conscious out of body excursions are possible for most people, and these provide a means of verification. But of course, just because you have a dream with someone else in it, does not mean they had the same dream or that you were both out of body together, for we may conjure up all sorts of things and people in dreams. But if two people want to, and if they truly love and understand each other, then it is possible to leave their bodies together, either consciously or as dreams.

Explain the process:
Another way of verifying or offering proof of such experiences to others is for those who know how leaving the body is achieved to provide clear guidelines and instructions to others, so that others might explore along similar lines and verify the matter for themselves. That is why I describe how I do it, and the mechanism of the soul, centres and subtle bodies by which I do it. And I intend to reveal more.   

  I should add that providing verification for others, like skeptics, can be done, but i've noticed in my own case that when ego becomes involved in the process, it tends to limit and distort such perception. If one can seek such info without ego being involved, then they could do it no problem.  But that isn't easy and of itself.  We tend to have more ego than we are consciously aware of. Much of it for most is rather unconscious.  When i say "ego", i mean a complex admixture of fear complexes/aspects with selfish tendencies and patterns. 

  Many materiial minded folks would likely label that a cop-out, but it's just the way it works.  It really is a kind of physics, albeit a nonphysical type of physics. 

   Everything is judged and relative to that of pure Love, as there are only two absolute realities that co-exist simultaneously, Oneness and Individuality. 

  Love moves us towards the Oneness, but with retention of the latter. 

  Ego/selfishness/fear/separateness moves us towards the individuality in a negative/limiting way. 

  Perception follows beingness, and Like attracts and begets Like. 

   Pretty much anytime my ego has become involved in perceiving, not just nonphysically, but also materially as well, accuracy and helpfulness has gone down.  The most accurate and constructive info i receive, usually comes when i'm in the state of helpfulness/service to others, wanting to better myself to have a better influence on the Whole, etc.  In other words, attunement to Love. 

  Looking at Edgar Cayce's life is a very enlightening exercise in understanding the contrasting nature of these motivations.  Cayce, was to a large extent, dependent on others in the sense of they often had to ask him questions before information would come out. 

   Most people that sought advice from him were seeking physical or spiritual help out of real need or sincerity. 

But occasionally he would get people with very limited and selfish intentions.  Cayce became involved with a group of oil hunters and investors.  There was a lot of intrigue and outright confrontation involved with this very materially minded and selfish group.  Not surprisingly, the info didn't come through very clear and accurately, plus there were indications that someone was sabotaging the project. Cayce himself went into it, because he wanted to build a holistic hospital to help others, but he got caught up in the black gold fever to some extent and for awhile became too polarized to the material.

   When Cayce himself wasn't in good attunement and didn't have a good balance between the physical, mental, and spiritual, his information tended to lose some helpfulness and accuracy.  While his intentions were usually good, occasionally the material or his ego became over involved, and similar thing, the information lacked. 

  That's not to say there was no accuracy at all.  Some people, including his own father, procured private readings without a transcriber like his wife or secretary/friend present.  It was found out later that these people sought information related to things like gambling. 

  The information provided some material fruits, but Cayce himself suffered, he often would awaken with a severe headache after these kinds of very selfish, materialistic readings.  One of the people that sought and materially benefited from such help, i think i remember reading ended up in a mental hospital. 

   This is not to say that material information couldn't be sought with helpfulness and non harm.  Cayce had a number of businessmen friends, but most of these also had spiritual ideals and were service oriented.  A lot of them were very financially helped from Cayce, like Morton Bluementhal, and in turn gave much of their time and money towards "the work" as they often called it. 

  But both immediate intention and choices, and the overall trend of intentions and past choices, is very influential in the kind of, and overall helpfulness and accuracy of psychically received info. 

   This seems to apply most to humans. It seems to be slightly different in cases of some other groups, which are more collectively and consciously psychic to begin with. 

  Well said Albert. 

  I just wish that more outer sources out there that set themselves up as some kind of spiritual authority, especially those that make money off it, would provide more verification. 

    Some do, but some of the most well known ones almost never provide info that can be corroborated.  Some of these seem to be of sources with limiting intentions or connections to begin with. 

  However, a limiting source, could provide a decent person with relatively good intentions, with some verifying info.

But i believe that this metaphysical law and pattern does relate to other groups and sources to some extent to, meaning, they might be able to give you the name of someone dead grandma, but probably unlikely to provided say future info that will be accurate, because their perception is more limited than a very Love based source.

  It's an interesting topic, and it would be best to avoid any kind of absolute statements regarding it, because it's relative to the individual to some extent. 

   Some people and sources don't seek or give out verification, because deep down, they know they are not in touch with more expanded forces or are overly faking it.

  Others have just received enough earlier on, that they trust the process and don't need any more verification, and it's just not a focus anymore.

But, i believe initially seeking verification is a good idea for many reasons as mentioned earlier.  It's a good balancing, grounding process.

thanks for all the great replys everyone Just to clarify I'm not seeking verification of weather or not I had an obe. I know I did 100 % a) I had been trying to do it for months on a daily basis  b) the night of my OBE I was meditating while lying down and wasn't tired at all, I relaxed my body did my breathing exercises, I built up an astral body, charged my chakras, then while I was sending my energy from my body into my astral body shell i first heard a high pitch ringing in my ears, then lights started flashing from behind my eyelids like really fast it was like someone was turning on and off a lightswitch as fast as they possiably could the ringing in my ears got louder and louder then i heard a sort of buzzing and a shoosh pop pop pop and all of a sudden i was hovering above my body and everything sounded very strange like whispers i couldn't make out in the dark i couldn't move but could see my ceiling as i managed to move my head to the left and could see my desk and chair, my television, my closet my window in my bedroom i was floating closer and closer to  my ceiling and right as i started to touch it I got scared and Wham i popped back into my body i was like OMG the entire time totally excited and amazed  yet the experience left me a bit scared like I felt like I was being watched or something, the way my hearing worked was extremely strange, like thousands of whispers in the dark that i couldn't make out at all imagine so many whispers that it blended into a kind of weird sound that no longer sounded like whispers if that makes any sense at all. I haven't projected since even though ive tried. I think I'm afraid of a) having no control of my astral body at all i couldn't move the only thing i moved slightly was my head and b) I felt like I was being watched or something I dono, I want to project again but I need to figure out how to gain control and once I have control where should I go? Like how do I move from the etheric into the astral?

Kran,

Your experience sounds familiar to many people's early out of body experiences.

The whispers and other phenomena are common, particularly for beginners. There can be much activity in the astral. Do not be concerned about any of it. Regarding the whispers, or any other phenomena, the best approach is to just remain observant and mentally unmoved. Just continue with your exercise, as if what you are doing is your only concern.

It is like backing a trailer into an unfamiliar place, and while doing so there are all sorts of noises, activity and potential distractions going on around you, but you just ignore the distractions and focus on carefully backing the trailer.   

There is nothing to fear in astral travel; nothing at all, despite appearances and despite the silly stories you might read about reptilian predators and other supposed evil influences in the astral worlds. Just develop poise, a sense of your own stable presence and self control, and nothing will bother you.   

Regards your differentiating between etheric and astral; you are not defining what you mean by each, and most people who use the terms do so without distinction anyway. But I can guess what you mean. Either way your questions, How do you gain more control? and How do you move from the etheric to the astral? will be discovered and answered by yourself if you simply persevere with your practice. It is something like learning to ride a pushbike; once you get moving along you begin to work it out for your self, and figure out how to coast along and how peddle up hill. Persevere, practice, cultivate a warm heart and good mental health, and stay away from drugs.

There is a sure indicator of a person who is not making progress in such arts, and that is the person who takes mind altering drugs. Drugs bend, distort and tear the astral body, disrupt the workings of the centres, and mess up the mind and reasoning faculties. Cannabis, which many think is harmless, is one of the most harmful, being a drug of self delusion. The damage drugs do can take many years to rectify, even if the damage can be rectified in one lifetime which often it cannot. So live healthily, practice, don't neglect your daily life duties, and if astral travel is for you, then you will most likely have further interesting experiences.

Quote:


No one here has ever said anything about reptilians in relation to OBE and the astral, let alone cautioning about same.

   In a sense, it's fairly straightforward and simple to get around such potential influencing outer hindrances. 

  Live one's life in a positive way and grow in Love, and ask the most expanded and Love attuned to help protect oneself.  Lack of fear also helps, but that comes with attunement to PUL naturally.

  Reptilians are like you and i, they use a dense physical body that originates in a similar frequency bandwidth as our physical . While they are are more consciously psychic than the average human and have much more advanced technology, they are not omnipotent nor omniscient.

  Most of the potential harm comes more subtly, it's more like softly whispering limiting ideas, beliefs, etc into one's mind either directly or indirectly through outer sources they have influenced directly (like some channeling material, etc). As mentioned, they tend not to just show up to someone whom is consicous enough to remember such an experience, they don't want to be known about. 

  In other words, they lurk in the shadows, metaphorically speaking. 

This is my last post on this thread about this issue, but i felt a correction to an overly generalized, exaggerated, and misleading statement was necessary.

There ya have it.  The Reptilians are like you and me, but they are more psychic than the average human, and have more advanced technology... and they whisper thoughts into your mind... and you can't see them... They sound less like you and me by the word.  But if you think happy thoughts - no worries.  There is nothing to fear.   

So if you aren't afraid of this pesky Reptilians, ya'll should have no problems walking through the Chicago southside on a Saturday morning at about 2:00AM.  Heck, nothing there as bad as a Reptilian.

Yet I am confused, is it because an OverSoul is taking care of everything?  Maybe an UnderSoul is guiding the Reptilians.  Nah, the Plutonians just channeled that the Galactic Council have a trade agreement between the OverSouls and UnderSouls.  But I just saw on the Internet today another channel by last surviving Atlantan being sheltered under Antarctica and that channel says the SupraGalactic Central Committee has an injunction on the trade agreement tho.

It's fairly straightforward and simply.... That's why mankind has been struggling with this for millennium. 

Kran, Find your center.  Find out for yourself.  Don't expect it to be easy, or comfortable, and DON"T be naive.

BillB, the principles and how it works is pretty straightforward and simple, however, i didn't say anything about it being easy to more fully or consistently apply.

  Attuning to and growing in PUL type Love, appears to be one of the hardest things for humans, speaking as a trend, to do. Transforming fear also is hard for humans, as a trend.

   While these are difficult, long time human issues, once people care about, understand, and start to put this stuff into practice, they understand that the principles themselves are simple.

  I don't want to go to extremes in talking about shadow issues, i don't want people to think resistance is futile, but neither do i want them to think it's a casual, easy walk in the park.  Sincerely calling on the help of those much more expanded than self or even one's Disk/I-there/Oversoul, can help immediately though when dealing with unwanted, hindering outer influences. 

That is exactly my point.  A new member posts a question and receives a number of answers "as if they are true and correct".

For example: Recoverer writes about an experience AFTER reading Bob's book "..heard a crackle sound, looked up, and with eyes open saw a funny looking alien swoop towards me...this wasn't an actual alien...."  So an actual alien wasn't actually observed.. higher self saw it.  But you didn't see it prior to reading the book.  Every see kids have nightmares after seeing a scary movie? 

My point is there are also sort of intuitive arguments about the natures of other species and why not.  However, my point also distinguishes between what is actually based on experience.  How much is total fantasy passed on over the Internet, then presumed to be true; later re-voiced here.  It is also presumed the Reptilians are cold because they are cold blooded. Who actually knows they are cold blooded (because our retiles are?) and why does that mean a priori that they are cold.. therefore bad.. or evil?  So our reptiles nature to our world are evil?

Concerning PUL: yes in principal that is simple. However, just because one attempts to utilize PUL does not guarantee the desired result.  Maybe you will get the desired response in 30 years and that dose not promise you will not go through a lot of crap waiting for the loving higher beings to keep promise with the "methodology"  Again, over simplifying, principal in the real world.  Otherwise step up to the plate and resolve the conflicts in Ukraine, or the Mid-East, or in Central America, or in any of our inner Cities using Pul.  You should be able to remedy all that by next weekend; I'll watch the news and wait.

Regarding "The only devil we need be concerned about is that part of our self that would have us disobey our conscience...", my point here would be that it's ok to say we know there are Reptilians and their nature, technology ...  But those that believe in the Devil, because they"ve seen it or having working knowledge of it... are wrong?  Their knowledge is archaic, but ours isn't.

This is simply exchanging belief systems for belief systems with knowledge based on the Internet and reading somebody's book(s)

Incidentally, if you believe in PUL, or Source, or Alpha, avoiding words such as God, or Christ, or Mohammad, then one would realize that the Bully-God Bob met was not God at all.  Given that deception, how may other deceptions take place in the experiences that comprise these various books.

Add on that Tom Campbell's personal notions that all of this is a virtual projection and none of "this" is actually real, why believe any of the experiences written in Bob's book(s) aren't simply a ploy to lurer people into "technologies" such as hemi-sync and gain virtual control of the user's minds? 

The point I am trying to make here is that it is easy to move from complete conjecture to assumed Truth.  That information than regurgitated and re-propogated...as if Truth.

I think Kran came here looking for input from people based on their own personal and actual experiences regarding the Astral field and OBEs.   Seems like he's getting an intro to presumed to be true, personal and pet belief systems of certain new age franchises, although some respondents did include aspects of their astral experiences.

This all reminds me of a guy at The Monroe Institute I met during the Gateway seminar.  He had NO "Astral" experiences of his own, and no religious or spiritual experiences of his own, but he knew a lot from reading the Internet.  He was quick at every turn to offer an explanation for everything I had already experienced and was completely wrong.  Yet he presumed he had correct information.

Again, Fran... Go hunt out for yourself what you believe in.  Don't not embrace pre-conceived notions that may, as some contributors put it, front-load your experience.  You don't want to dream about monsters and think they're true simply because you watch a scary movie; the fantasy of some film director.

  I'll have to kind of agree with BillB here. If that was so easy, and it's just simply a matter of listening to one's conscience, why are so few humans more fully content, joyous, etc, let alone at a Yeshua like level? Why has so much of humanity been stuck for so long? 

  If it were so easy, then wouldn't more humans and their Disks/OverSouls have gotten that far, but instead collectively we have trillions and trillions of lifetimes, and many Disks have hundreds and thousands of lifetimes, and still so few have become truly and completely free.

  It seems much within and without, get's in the way of the simple principle of listening to and following one's conscience.

  We can consider these inner and outer hindrances as blocks. To grow, to transform, we have to effectively deal with them and for that you have to become consciously aware of and deal with them individually, while also generally attuning to Love.  It takes both, not just one or the other.

   Some will make this a black and white issues, but it's not. There are collective, almost universals involved, and then much individual relativity involved.  We all have different blocks within, but a lot of us share similar outer blocks.

  There is an old, Biblical quote that sums up the problem well: "The Spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."  The collective stuckness here, has a strong pull and resonating influence on those that incarnate into human bodies.  It's almost like a type of gravity that weighs us down.

We are in the process of getting to the point where we can overcome all these inner and outer hindrances/blocks, SO that we can more fully and consistently listen to our conscience, but much needs to happen before this more fully flowers in a collective sense.  We're talking some pretty strong and in our face, catalysts. 

  BillB, neither Recoverer nor i were the ones to bring up negative E.T.'s to Kran here. 

   And rather going into a lot of specifics, i spoke to Kran in a very generalized way, outlining the basic principles and laws behind all this stuff. 

   Front loading as you call it, well that's what Guides do all the time, but they have the wisdom to know when to go into detail, or when to leave it more general, or to just give hints or to just give nudges. 

  They are in the business you could say, of transforming stuck, limited, distorted belief systems into more freeing, expanding, and accurate belief systems.  There are various ways of doing that, and yes, sometimes it comes down to explaining things in a clear and concise way to spark greater understanding.  Literally everything they do, is devoted to that process, because they are trying to help free humans from their inner and outer bonds, so much of which relates to distorted, limiting beliefs.

    I have been on a conscious spiritual path since age 13, and i'm now 35, and in that time i have been through A LOT of challenge and testing.  Much of my path has been about developing my intuitive knowing, which doesn't require any bells and whistles that you are so attached to, all the sensation effects, the flying, the forms, etc. 

Intuition cuts right through to truth. It is our deepest and most core way of perceiving, whether while focused in physical, or nonphysical. A perceptive capacity and sense we have had from the moment we were sparked off from Source.

  To become very intuitive, one must do a few things in tandem--become very clear, balanced, and open ones heart up a lot. It is one of the hardest of the perceptive senses to develop, because it takes so much trust and listening.  Anyone can seemingly leave the body, with all the effects and bells and whistles, and be convinced by that and the experiences one is having, but to listen to that quiet, intuitive part of self, especially for us men, requires a lot more.  Intuitive knowing tends to come much easier to women then men, because they tend to be more innately in touch with their feelings and they tend to more attuned to empathy which keeps the heart open.

  People that get caught up in the bells and whistles, and effects, often times are not particularly objective about their perceptions and experiences, so just because someone has a lot of classic OBE's, doesn't make them an expert on the nonphysical or spiritual reality.  For many years, Bob Monroe was rather clueless in some core ways, despite all his OBE's.  It took him decades to come to similar conclusions that i intuitively knew, accepted, and tried to live when i was a teen.  I got into this whole spiritual and nonphysical thing from an intense, former interest in science, because sometimes late at night starting around the time i was 13, i would get these intuitive downloads about the bigger questions in life, things about the Oneness, Love, etc.   This was before i consciously sought OR read any spiritual literature.

  It all comes down to spiritual attunement within the moment, and overall development and maturity, as perception follows beingness.  You cannot expand the former well, without expanding the latter well.

  I've received enough both inner and outer guidance in and about that area, to accept that it's okay for self to counsel others at times. Do i always do it perfectly and only wisely, no, but i generally know relatively soon after if i was off the mark or not.

  Feel free to disagree BillB. Both you and 1796 seem to think that classic OBE is the holy grail way to truth. You couldn't be anymore off.

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No, you couldn't be more off.  Perhaps you should go back to ignoring me.

1796 wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2015 at 12:33am:


  You misunderstood what i said and meant.  I did not mean that i would not address things that you brought up, in an impersonal, debate kind of way.  I meant that i would refrain from "getting personal" in a confrontational, combative way that i briefly engaged in recently. 

  If you state inaccurate, limiting beliefs, or put words into my mouth, i will, at times impersonally address and disagree with same.

That's what i meant by what i said, impersonal debate/disagreement rather than personal jousting and character criticism, etc. 

   Would you like to be completely ignored?  I suppose if this is a strong desire/need on your part, i could acquiescence, but it seems to go against your principles of freedom, free speech, non censure, etc. that you have spoke so strongly of in the past.

 

   I do think it's very important for a person to connect to their own Oversoul/Disk/Spirit etc.  After all, that part of self can best understand, translate and relay information and communication from OverSouls/Disks/Spirits more expanded than our own, to it's human personalities/Souls. 

  However, it's important to point out that even OverSouls etc don't all have the same attunement to Source and PUL. Some are fully inune with same, and many more have a relative, changing attunement with same.  Many humans think they or their Oversouls are wiser and more aware than they really are.

  Hence, it's simply a matter of pragmatic wisdom and basic humility to seek help and guidance from those whom are more expanded than self.  There are different ways to strengthen and boost such connection, and generally speaking, best to be done in a holistic combo. 

  I suppose we are sidetracking Kran's Astral thread too much.  However, some of these principles and talks do relate, indirectly to the issue of exploring and the astral. 

 

Decided to erase some of my posts because they were side tracking Kran's thread too much.