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Injustice (Read 10627 times)
BillB
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Injustice
Jul 18th, 2015 at 11:54am
 
At risk of getting off topic in some thread here is a question:

If there are various beings meddling in mankind and through some believing in what they feel as loving, fuzzy peaceful feelings that demonstrate one being or group, or the divine Source as being "all good".... then

Why all the confusion, why all the injustice committed in incorrect belief systems for epochs of man's history.

Why not man-up, or I mean ET-up, Angel-Up, or Source-Up and tell everyone what the real deal is.  Fly around the planet with a bullhorn, or appear in a dream to every living soul on the planet and simply tell people what's up.  Then let everyone discuss and access the message.

Really, why would benevolent beings seemingly occupying certain realms of supervision allow such confusion to wreck so much, so much suffering, terror, despair?  Maybe they're not truly all powerful and therefore can't get the message out?  Maybe they're out to lunch and forgot the project?

Simply, why the big "Mystery"?

Thoughts?
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Justin
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Re: Injustice
Reply #1 - Jul 18th, 2015 at 2:48pm
 
  Might as well ask why human perception as a whole, and the average human's perception, tends to be so limited and distorted.  There are many different reasons.

  Guidance has to work through and by certain Universal laws.  The two main ones being Like attracts, begets, resonates with Like.  The other is the respect of freewill. 

   Guidance tries to reach many about many different issues.  Sometimes people listen, and many times many people do not. 

   It's very much akin to the issues involved with classical retrieving.  When someone dies and gets stuck sort of in between the physical and nonphysical levels of consciousness, purely nonphysical guidance has a hard time even getting perceived by those stuck in those limited states of being.  There is too much of a difference in resonation between them, and that which is more expanded than self cannot be perceived. It's a type of nonphysical physics.

  Often time, a fellow human is needed to create that perceptual bridge.  Fellow humans are more "similar" or "like" those stuck, hence they can be more easily perceived, as those stuck are often very physically focused still, despite being dead. 

  This is why some positive E.T. groups have sent in some of their own to become human, to act as communication bridges between the expanded, positive ET's and humans.

    Many spiritual belief systems around the world talk about hindering and misleading beings and forces, just as many talk about positively intentioned, helpful, spiritual beings and forces.

    So, it's not like the latter hasn't tried to get out the word about the former, it has tried throughout many centuries and belief systems. The very specific details or labels might not agree, but the general concepts do.

   There is also a huge fear factor involved. The issue of a technologically superior, very clever, psychically gifted, but very lacking in Love ET group meddling with humans and ultimately wanting to enslave us and have the Earth for themselves is a very potentially frightening possibility to just consider, let alone being told directly by guidance that it's true. 

   Guidance is wise, they will not disseminate such info to individuals before they can handle it constructively (for example, without personal fear). 

   Edgar Cayce wasn't told about his lifetime with Yeshua (Jesus) until he was 60 years old.  When he asked his guidance why the long wait, he was told that there would have been too much of a puffing up of ego before that time. So they withheld the info until the right time. 

    Going back to the paragraph just before the above, it is easier for people to handle such info when fellow humans talk about it. It's not as immediate and "in one's face".  It can have the effect of planting seeds that may be awakened later when the time is right for them. 

  So it's a rather complex mix of variables involved, when one looks at it in a very big picture and holistic way.  As always, perception follows beingness.  The more you expand your beingess by choosing, attuning to and radiating Love, the more one's perception expands, clarifies, sharpens. 

  This is why when i seek info and guidance about things, i always ask to connect only to the most expanded, helpful, PUL attuned, aware sources there are.  And i do specific techniques, and try live a life, that boosts and strengthens that connection. 

   It's much like phasing frequencies on a radio, you have to "match vibration" to some extent before you can clearly perceive and understand info from such levels.  These also will help to temporarily expand you, like the Planning Intelligence did with Bruce when Bruce was trying to communicate with It, so that you can perceive, temporarily, beyond your own level and range. Bruce initially had a hard time perceiving clearly the Planning Intelligence.  The P.I. had to help adjust Bruce's consciousness bandwidth in order for Bruce to more clearly perceive It. 

  There may be other reasons and variables that i'm not aware of as well as i do not have full and constant attunement to what Bruce calls PUL. 

   Also, it's certainly not the most important issue for humans.  It's just one of many strong variables that is helping to to keep humanity from progressing more rapidly.

  And just as positive E.T. groups sometimes send in some of their own to help things, so doesn't the negative E.T. group send in some of their own to help them and hinder us.  These latter are often psychopathic in nature, and gravitate towards positions of great wealth and material influence (this is part of the reason why i think Yeshua referred to some of the Pharisees as a "brood of vipers" and coming from "Satan" the father of lies from the beginning. He wasn't just being metaphorical, but indicating that these had been OF that negative/hindering ET group, which is reptilian/viper like in appearance). 
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BillB
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Re: Injustice
Reply #2 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 10:55am
 
I don't think Guidance cuts it.   Simply another ambiguous term.  You have it.  I have it.  Bruce, Recover, 1796, et al have it.  Heck, the Catholic Church has it.  So do Islamic extremists and ISIS.  Every Christian denomination had it that broke away from some parent organization.

My question is why so much ambiguity.  Massive suffering in the world.  Animals oppressed by man.   A planets ecosphere being destroyed.  Aliens behind every government barracks and Walmart.

Why exactly is the mayhem and cruel injustices allowed to continue.  If I let some Boston Islamist bomber stop by and get a drink from a garden hose I'd likely be facing a jury. 

So, why exactly is this mess allowed?  Too many cooks spoil the brew?

I feel good today; just the right mix of honey and caffeine  Shocked
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Justin
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Re: Injustice
Reply #3 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 12:08pm
 
  I already addressed that.  The main thing is freewill, but there are may influencing variables besides.

  Despite the great respect of freewill by the mature consciousnesses, there have been a number of times in human past, where the spiritual PTB, DID put their collective foots down, and wiped humanity down to a relative few because humanity had gone too far in the negative direction in a collective sense. 

   We don't all "have it" to the same degree, or consistency, when one understands that perception follows beingness. 

   Because of the way that reality is structured, Like attracts and begets Like, in order to perceive more and more of the greater reality, you have to expand more and more your consciousness.  This takes effort, consistent choosing, for many--many different experiences in various dimensions, etc, etc.

  This is what spiritual growth is all about, and the closer we come to conscious awareness of our Oneness with Source and the Whole by choosing and living what Bruce calls PUL, the closer we come to purer and more expanded perception. 

   There are beings out there, whom i know have a much wider, broader, and more accurate perception of reality than i do, because they are more developed/spiritually mature. 

   Not everyone seeks the same kind of guidance, nor do they have the understanding of the relativity of guidance and that there are various degrees and levels of guidance. 

    Some people are content with members of their own Disk, some folks look for stereotypical new age guides.  Some their Disk. 

   Few seem to connect consistently with the purely Creative Forces, the Source and those fully One with same, the Whole, and with PUL (those like Yeshua).  Some don't understand that their Disk or Higher self is NOT at that level yet.

  All other guidance is limited to some extent or degree, have some distortions, some blind spots, etc, etc.

  And yet, most are content with such teachers.  I'm not and neither is Recoverer, though we both do receive info from our Disk/Expanded self at times.   

   
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Re: Injustice
Reply #4 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 12:59pm
 
One time I was thinking about the problems in this World, and I heard a voice say, "I can end it anytime I want." Either this voice came from the being who actually created this Universe in some way (either directly or indirectly with the help of a sub-creator (s)), or my guidance spoke on the behalf of such Source so I would get the point that whoever created this universe could end it if he wanted. But then he would have to start over, and what would be the point of that?

On another occasion I was meditating while thinking about the problems in this World, and then I suddenly found myself in space, and a voice said, "it is a school of learning" and then I got the feeling, "don’t stress out so much, things are as they are for a reason." The space I experienced was a symbol for manifested existence, the “it” above.)

This doesn’t mean that everything we do is okay.  If we are going to have freewill, then the chance has to exist that sometimes we will mess things up more than is necessary. Sometimes much more than is necessary and we suffer accordingly.

To what extent can the prime creator intercede? I don’t know, but if he and his helpers did so more than is needed, it might defeat the point of our being here.  When I help with retrievals, there is interesting energetic activity that takes place. If one considers the matter from this vantage point, it seems as if the Prime Creator is limited with how he can intercede, because why does he need someone like me to help out?  Plus, going by what some people say, some Souls are able to cut themselves off from higher levels of being to an extent that higher level beings are limited with how they can help out.

Perhaps in such a case a Prime Creator would have to unravel things to an extent that would be too widespread. After all, everything is connected. It could also be a matter of not wanting to negate a growth opportunity for all involved including the retriever.
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Re: Injustice
Reply #5 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 2:28pm
 
BillB wrote on Jul 19th, 2015 at 10:55am:
I don't think Guidance cuts it.   Simply another ambiguous term.  You have it.  I have it.  Bruce, Recover, 1796, et al have it.  Heck, the Catholic Church has it.  So do Islamic extremists and ISIS.  Every Christian denomination had it that broke away from some parent organization.

My question is why so much ambiguity.  Massive suffering in the world.  Animals oppressed by man.   A planets ecosphere being destroyed.  Aliens behind every government barracks and Walmart.

Why exactly is the mayhem and cruel injustices allowed to continue.  If I let some Boston Islamist bomber stop by and get a drink from a garden hose I'd likely be facing a jury. 

So, why exactly is this mess allowed?  Too many cooks spoil the brew?

I feel good today; just the right mix of honey and caffeine  Shocked


I think the short answer to your question "why is there so much ambiguity?" is fear and selfishness, though the root of selfishness is fear. Fear of not being/having enough, fear of powerlessness, fear of annihilation, sickness, death, and the list goes on and on... Uncertainty is rooted in fear. 

Why is it allowed?  It seems likely uncertainty has been built into ELS simply because it plays an important part in fast tracking the evolution of consciousness.  Choice can speed up evolution, but there needs to be something to choose from or all would be static.  A world such as ours creates all kinds of opportunities to choose from and our choices lead to evolving in beneficial ways or not, which always ends in destruction of itself.


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Re: Injustice
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 3:57pm
 
I don't see these as "exact" answers.  Yes selfishness contributes, but fear is not derived from selfishness.  One could argue fear is a primary element of self preservation, but self preservation is not selfishness.

And free will is just another cog in the mayhem.

A two year old child born to alcoholic parents, then removed by the State to be placed in a string of foster homes, does not result form the toddlers free will.  Do you then say the problem resulted from the free will of the State, or the parents?  Well the parents of ignorant bodies desperately trying to survive their inner city pit of hopelessness don't know that the State decided to bust down their door.  Then the child becomes ignorant because none of the foster home provided any lasting education opportunities.

You say the "master beings" wiped out man times in the past to start over, but eventually found that didn't work.  So what, did they walk away from it?

I'm still waiting for the exact answer and just cuz one repeats the same new age buzz phrases doesn't "explain" "exactly" why.

That's the big question and to make it more difficult, the answer cannot be cast in information from Ancient Alien episodes that couldn't even be air'd cuz they lacked any facts.

Lastly the essay should be presented in a manner that a child could understand, an explanation that some poor kid from a broken family in the inner city now in the foster system could understand.



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Re: Injustice
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 3:58pm
 
BillB wrote on Jul 19th, 2015 at 3:57pm:
I don't see these as "exact" answers.  Yes selfishness contributes, but fear is not derived from selfishness.  One could argue fear is a primary element of self preservation, but self preservation is not selfishness.

And free will is just another cog in the mayhem.  What higher beings mucking with things don't have free will.  Is one of their free will decisions more or less then 10 of our free will decisions.

A two year old child born to alcoholic parents, then removed by the State to be placed in a string of foster homes, does not result from the toddler's free will.  Do you then say the problem resulted from the free will of the State, or the parents?  Well the parents are ignorant bodies desperately trying to survive their inner city pit of hopelessness don't know that the State decided to bust down their door.  Then the child becomes ignorant because none of the foster home provided any lasting education opportunities.  The parents never had a shot at a decent education or employment either.

You say the "master beings" wiped out man times in the past to start over, but eventually found that didn't work.  So what, did they walk away from it?  Ya know if I invent something that's screwed up, and I try to fix it but can't... that invention's malware is the invention's responsibility now?

I'm still waiting for the exact answer and just cuz one repeats the same new age buzz phrases doesn't "explain" "exactly" why.

That's the big question and to make it more difficult, the answer cannot be cast in information from Ancient Alien episodes that couldn't even be air'd cuz they lacked any facts.

Lastly the essay should be presented in a manner that a child could understand, an explanation that some poor kid from a broken family in the inner city now in the foster system could understand.

A simple escape from the problem is to say that there is no justice.  That is an artifact of man's creation.

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Re: Injustice
Reply #8 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 4:52pm
 
Why is white...white? Why is black...black? Why is this and why is that? For me, the question is not why is there injustice, but what am I, who am I, how am I.

I want to relieve suffering for myself and others, but I am not in control of this life. I only have choices which I can make in this moment.

How conscious am I? How conscious are you? We can judge and we can play the game. We can do it however we want to do it. It's a gift, for better or worse, being married to this life.
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Re: Injustice
Reply #9 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 6:49pm
 
BillB:

I didn't say that masters wiped out people in order to start over.

Yes, we have free will, but this can be problematic if we don't have the wisdom to use it in a loving and productive way. The ignorance of some causes problems for others.

If you had a child, out of love would you allow this child to have free will even though it makes some mistakes as it seeks its answers to life, or would you control it like a robot?
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Re: Injustice
Reply #10 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 6:53pm
 
Ah a clear seeing soul!  Thanks Seagul!  Being the originator of this thread I commission thee, thou mayest go off topic.  Of course ya know I don't have the authority to do that, but by golly I sayeith it!

You are certainly right about those questions and I ask myself the same ones.  How precocious to presume to expound regarding how the Universe and Master Creators (not the ones one the Internet) work when we can't truly answer the basic questions you raise.  And it is a relief to hear some voice how little control we really have regardless of all the manifestation hype (which does have its truths I grant)

I, however, am troubled by the suffering in the world.  It drags me down and pains me every day to see so much suffering by people whom I do not presume to believe desire it.  That it all balances out in the end does not seem to me a reassuring answer.

Smiley
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Re: Injustice
Reply #11 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 6:55pm
 
And yes Recoverer, it is unfortunately that I am lumping everyone together in my replies.  I understand that "you" did not say that.

Injustice. What can I say   Sad
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Re: Injustice
Reply #12 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 8:43pm
 
BillB said: You are certainly right about those questions and I ask myself the same ones.  How precocious to presume to expound regarding how the Universe and Master Creators (not the ones one the Internet) work when we can't truly answer the basic questions you raise.  And it is a relief to hear some voice how little control we really have regardless of all the manifestation hype (which does have its truths I grant)

Recoverer responds: If you have rules about how questions should be answered, perhaps you should define these rules before people take the time to answer. How would you like it if you answered according to what you understand, and the asker basically graded your answers? Even though you don't see the answers that were offerred, I believe that some people have tried to answer your questions. I get what Justin, Lights of Love and myself were saying. If it is beyond our means to find the answers to big questions, then perhaps we should just call it quits right now.

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Re: Injustice
Reply #13 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 9:25pm
 
Rules to how the respondee(s) reply?  If one reads all the forum topics there are few rules and nearly all responses to all the threads are based on everyone's completely subjective answers.

There are no formal methods here.  There aren't even formally accepted notions that all the conversations are predicated on.  How do you suggest a forum thread get properly composed and maintained?

With respect to replying to every nuance of phrase that each contributor states, this website (or any forum site) does not allow the elegant reply to every thought of every contribute as those bifurcate to half a dozen off topic topics in one reply.  Yes it is all quite unjust. 

If you had a child that you gave free will to, and that child turned into a psychopathic killer, while ever striving to increase its reach so that it could satiate it's blood lust, what would you do?  Or the grown child does contribute to charities occasional, so that child can't be all bad.

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Re: Injustice
Reply #14 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 9:55pm
 
recoverer wrote on Jul 19th, 2015 at 12:59pm:
... a voice said, "it is a school of learning" and then I got the feeling, "don’t stress out so much, things are as they are for a reason." ...

To what extent can the prime creator intercede? I don’t know, but if he and his helpers did so more than is needed, it might defeat the point of our being here.  When I help with retrievals, there is interesting energetic activity that takes place. If one considers the matter from this vantage point, it seems as if the Prime Creator is limited with how he can intercede, because why does he need someone like me to help out?  Plus, going by what some people say, some Souls are able to cut themselves off from higher levels of being to an extent that higher level beings are limited with how they can help out.

Perhaps in such a case a Prime Creator would have to unravel things to an extent that would be too widespread. After all, everything is connected. It could also be a matter of not wanting to negate a growth opportunity for all involved including the retriever.


Responding to Recover's thoughts here:  For my part, there are clearly purposes behind the many causations.  As Recover suggests there may be limitations.   Limitations are also something I wonder about.

Specifically that it's not just people making mistakes, that higher order beings make mistakes too; misjudge the situation.  What does that say for omnipresence, or omnipotence?  That it is limited to Prime or Source?

Years ago studying physiology it was a wonder - the miracles of nature.  Then I learned about cancer and say the body fall apart not from an outside invading influence, but rather the body itself was not a perfect creation.  This lead to the question how perfect is the whole creation.  Of course then one learns the body has countermeasures, but then they break.  Back and forth oppositional forces balancing, disrupting balance, rebalancing.

So does crap happen partly out of purpose, chance, and lack of pure and accurate foresight of the beings that do try to improve the system and injustice is a man-made fiction?  Crap just happens, learn from it if one can... ?

It is still likely precocious to even utter the question. Is the universe just?  After all, who should question the Prime, Source, or God?  Isn't that what Job did?
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Re: Injustice
Reply #15 - Jul 19th, 2015 at 10:43pm
 
BillB:

It could be that it isn't possible to create in a way where everything is perfect. Contradictory needs oppose each other. If in the end everything works out for the best, it is worth it.

I wonder if us and Source could've passed on trying to determine what the possibilities of exitence are. If we did that, we wouldn't find out what our own being is capable of. We would go through eternity without completely knowing ourselves and doing what we need to do to make our existence as best as possible.

But yes, the next time something happens such as a man tries to force a girl to become a prostitude, I wish a Giant hand would reach down from the sky and prevent him from doing so.
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Re: Injustice
Reply #16 - Jul 20th, 2015 at 5:41pm
 
And perhaps a Taoist perspective is helpful, that there are oppositional pairs in all forms. 

Could a perfect universe, omnipresence, omnipotence, justice, good, evil, unconditional love and Santa Claus all be human concepts, or projections?

However, it seems that mankind is in much more turmoil and imbalance than the animal kingdom.  Kill simply to eat, but not for pleasure.
Undecided
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Re: Injustice
Reply #17 - Jul 20th, 2015 at 6:26pm
 
I believe some things can be absolute such as:

1. 1 + 1 = 2.
2. We exist as Conscious beings.
2. Unconditional love has a lot of value and is a good quality to live according to, no matter how supposedly transcendent of love a being is.
3. Integrity is a good quality for a Soul to have, no matter what integrity lacking beings believe.
4. If there is in fact a divine Creator who created everything, then so it is.
4. If unfriendly Aliens such as Reptilians do in fact interact with this World, then this is fact, no matter what people believe. The same is true with the opposite possibility.
5. If I find my job boring and mundane, then this is a fact, no matter what others think.
6. And so on, and so on.

Just because we can get caught up in our beliefs, emotional attachments and psychological conditioning, this doesn't mean that it is beyond our ability to find out what is true. Sometimes it is simply a matter of looking within.

BillB wrote on Jul 20th, 2015 at 5:41pm:
And perhaps a Taoist perspective is helpful, that there are oppositional pairs in all forms. 

Could a perfect universe, omnipresence, omnipotence, justice, good, evil, unconditional love and Santa Claus all be human concepts, or projections?

However, it seems that mankind is in much more turmoil and imbalance than the animal kingdom.  Kill simply to eat, but not for pleasure.
Undecided

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Re: Injustice
Reply #18 - Jul 21st, 2015 at 12:55pm
 
  My sense is that accidents occasionally happen, from the entire micro to macro spectrum even up to the level of creation.

  Even so, there is always potential to turn lemons into lemonade. 

  Since all originally comes from and is within Source, most of it should eventually find it's way back to that original consciousness. With freewill it's possible to stray far away from that, but it's hard to buck reality forever.

  I haven't received much direct info about it (other than my intuition telling me it's true), but three sources i know of, Cayce, Moen, and Campbell say that sometimes individuated consciousnesses experience a true death and get recycled. 

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