Hello:

To whatever degree the Loosh story is true, I would say that we existed at the spirit/soul level before we got involved with a World where Loosh is collected.

  If you've read all of Monroe's books and read the two biographies about him, you will see that he went through some major belief changes over the years. 

   In general, there seemed to be a lot of fear at the beginning, but it gradually got less and less towards the end of his life. He as a person gradually became more "spiritual" and love based as well.

    If older, wiser Bob had received the loosh rote, it probably would have been interpreted differently than it was at the time he did receive it.

    Loosh may be a metaphor for pure Love and the harvesters may be our "Disks", I-Theres, Spirits or whatever you prefer to call our Expanded self level of being.

   So, in a sense, these lifetimes ARE all about loosh gathering, as so much of this whole process is about remembering, opening up to, and facilitating greater love. Ultimately, it's all about consciously remembering and living in the full Unity/Oneness consciousness. 

  There can be many secondary reasons, and for some it's not about this yet (the very immature consciousnesses), but speaking generally about the process and the majority, it seems to be a primary or core reason.

I can see Monroe's loosh rote reads as far out, but its not really. Its not an interpretation; its actual; but it leaves a lot out that would reveal a fuller, rounder and more natural picture. I expect like some I would have thought it is false or a poor interpretation or something, except that I've seen the loosh business, what it is, how its made, refined, harvested, used and so on. I expect that sounds far out too, even on a far out website like this one! Monroe was right but he was describing someone else's communication to him, and doing so accurately, but he was not describing his own seeing and understanding of the loosh operation. Personally I don't like the term loosh, although it is accurately descriptive - like the word moo is to a cow's moo. The word suits an external or objective view of the substance and its processing, like a machine might sound from afar, but it sounds different to the sound that its parts sound like within each of them. Subjectively, from within the Earth life system, and from within the living parts or units, like within each of us, loosh is more like stress, or rather, like stress-energy being created, that is, stress of all grades and sorts, from most coarse and physical stresses to the most fine and spiritual stresses. Loosh is normal ethric/prana/chi/Mfield/bio-energy/vitality getting processed through stress/sufferings/dilemmas experienced by the unit and comes out refined and more potent than it was before in its natural state. The degree of refinement corresponds with the degree of coarseness or fineness of the stress experienced by the unit, which roughly speaking ranges from grossly physical, through emotional, mental, spiritual. As we as individuals develop in our fineness, fineness of consciousness, and our problems/dilemmas/sufferings/stress become capable of being finer in grade, so we refine natural vitality into a finer and more potent product. It is harvested via "wind pipes" or "breathing" of other beings. There is an overall system, and lots of lesser systems parasiting off of it, just like a great food production factory that makes food for people, can have the mice living in it eating the crumbs, the birds living on the roof eating the scraps out the back, the cockroaches in the crevices and dark places, the rats living off the waste down the waste pipes, etc. So too, the great stress/conflict/dilemmas of life-universal and its greatest overall benefit and purpose, is sort of parasited off by countless other lesser life systems, that are parts of the overall system. Loosh is not love, but it is related to love in that as the unit becomes more loving and utilises more love in its life and stresses, it then produces a more refined loosh. But as said, subjectively, from our perspective loosh is subjectively known like stress of various grades and kinds, from most physical to stresses of soul, heart and conscience. And also, the production of loosh should not be considered a big issue, in fact, it is beside the point of our life and living. Just like the life of the mouse in the factory, although it lives in the factory, the mouse's life and all his issues are irrelevant to the greater factory and its productions and servicing to the wider community. So too, the overall production of loosh that results from life is not of concern to us and our life, even though we are part of the system. We make other substances too, even what we call waste, but its useful to some other life, but its not the only purpose of our living. Our purpose is to our soul; all the other purposes are incidental. But, of course, the loosh business is interesting as a subject of thought and amusement and to those who are aware of it. In its essence, at its very base, it is to do with relationship between the elements. I mean the occult ones, fire, earth, air and water, not the periodic ones. It is the coming together of these elements within a freewilled soul immersed in a world of illusion, insulated from greater truth and from true and complete perspective, that produces conditions for production of refined vitality. Looking at it basically, when fire and matter come together they burn, and heat and light, and also smoke is made. Smoke is incomplete combustion. It is that, on every level of being, from the coarsest and most physical stresses of the body upon the soul, through to the most fine and spiritual stresses of heart and conscience, where fire/spirit and substance/all grades of matter/energy come together, and where there is incomplete combustion, as it exists upon that particular plane of the stress, that is the making of loosh in its grade according to the plane. Loosh is smoke, but in an occult sense. Every plane has its kind of smoke. The smoke that results from stress, in all its grades and kinds, and on all its respective planes. Stress is a type of fire, but people can't see it. It is the sensation of fire not fully combusting the material it is burning and making smoke according to that plane. But these behaviours of the elements and how they work in nature and within life units are occult, or not seen by most people. In regard to this loosh business, the purpose of living is our own, and is of the soul and its development and realisation of itself, and although the production of refined vitality(loosh) through experience of grades of stress is part of an overall system of which we are incidentally involved, all that matters to us as individuals is that we live our own lives as right and best as we can by those around us. There is nothing else to be concerned about.            

How can one build "escape velocity" and get out of this world? According to Bob, most people stay here and never leave.

I would like to know how to gain enough escape velocity, can someone please help me?

Consider some of the things said in the fairly recent "Spiritual Conditioning" thread. I don't believe the "never leave" portion of the below is accurate. 


ross wrote on Jun 28^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

Roger, you referred to what 1796 said, and then compared the quality of what he says to what others say. Does that seem to be in line with what he said?

Albert

rondele wrote on Jun 29^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Ross: "How did our consciousness get created? Bob stated that there is no beginning or ending in the other (spiritual) world. ... Has anyone astral projected and went to visit their birth place (like Bob did)? What did these places look like?"

cb: Consciousness is the result of friction between spirit and matter. Where spirit penetrates matter, consciousness results. Matter here refers to all energies coarser than spirit; to all energetic/material existence below God. God interpenetrates all existence. Consciousness is as pervasive as existence. Consciousness was/is created simultaneously with existence. Consciousness is the animation of all things, even of the atom and the universe, and of everything in between.   

Robert Monroe may have visited a location where he previously resided, but he did not visit his soul's birth place.

Ross: "How can one build "escape velocity" and get out of this world? According to Bob, most people stay here and never leave. ... I would like to know how to gain enough escape velocity, can someone please help me?"

cb: It is true that most are trapped here for longer than is comprehensible. Eternity is a fitting word.

There is only one way out. Bets said it: "apologize to those we've wronged and owe no one anything"

But the concept of debt, or of owing, belongs to every level of our being, from gross material to soul, and exists in every form of mental-emotional-behavioural exchange and therefor bond that can occur between people.

"Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. ...
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."  JC  Matthew 6

For God is within you and what you express of Him to others, moves through your self. And what you do not express of Him to others, does not move through your self.

Every thought and feeling that we have is a package or construction of metal and emotional substance. When we think and/or feel it, it is passing through our consciousness and being energised by our consciousness. And when we cease thinking it and/or feeling it then it has gone forth out the front of our being and circulates around to settle into the rear of our being, in the subconscious. As it loses vitality it itches the back of the consciousness, like someone scratching on the back door, and then we let it in again, into our consciousness and we think/feel it again, it gets re-energised and then it passes out the front again. Every thought and feeling we have ever had exists in the subconscious, even back to our first life. This circulating of mental-emotional packages (and associated behaviour) is the piston strokes in the engine of our personality. Only love and forgiveness dissolves these packages and returns their substance to their respective energetic plane. Not love or forgiveness for self as the psychologists/counsellors and new agers encourage, for that is not love, but only love and forgiveness for others. Only when we have dissolved all such packages by love/forgiveness for others do we graduate from the Earth school system. Also, every  thought, emotion, feeling, that we have towards another person is a package that intermeshes with that other person, and their thoughts and feelings intermesh with ours. The two mental-emotional packages mix together like two coil springs entangled and the two coil springs circulate through both their consciousnesses, life after life, binding the two souls together until that bond is dissolved by true love and forgiveness and sets free their souls.   

Christianity is an accelerated graduation system that enables people to graduate from the Earth school. The teachings and doctrines of Christianity have provided all the requirements for individual graduation. A lot have graduated over 2000 years, many more are graduating now and in coming centuries, but these are just a few in comparison to those billions who reject the method of graduation and are stuck here, circulating through the Earth school system, life after life, forever.

And there is an interesting double sided effect with Christianity. The spirit of love for Earth is not a human feeling that we have, but is a living conscious spirit, an entity of its own, that surrounds the Earth and circulates through hearts of people when we call on it and tune our hearts with it, and it is our only saviour, our only way to graduate from the Earth school system. And this spirit of love either saves our soul or condemns it; not by its choice, but by our choice. For if we accept it into our heart and live by its teachings of love and forgiveness for others, and if we accept the origin, nature and teacher of that love and of its power to heal and liberate, then we graduate with a liberated and self-realised soul. But those who are exposed to Christianity and reject it for an alternative love and method, no matter how true and caring they may portray their alternative love to be, they are condemned to be stuck here in this world for as long as they hold out, which can easily be forever. The only alternative to true love is false love. False love is pretended love, or deluded love. False love cringes from true love, even from the mention of the name of its teacher. False love has no ability to heal or liberate, only to delude and to further embed the soul into the Earth system. Only true love provides graduation and saves the soul from cycling within the Earth system for eternity, and Jesus taught and demonstrated true love, and was the personification of that living conscious spirit of love that surrounds the Earth. Why would some who know the story of Jesus, and who say their love is true, cringe from the teacher who brought the concept of universal love to Earth and who demonstrated love's power? and why would they refuse to acknowledge him as their teacher and as their saviour from their self, or why would they appear to choke on their words when they minimally acknowledge him? Only because their love is false, is hatred in disguise. True love can acknowledge its teacher.

Yes, I agree with you Albert.

cb

Perhaps one thing they might collect is worship energy. As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe that God is a being who wants to be worshiped.  Why would a vast, perhaps infinite being of love, want worship energy? At that level of being such neediness doesn't exist.

When I feel divine love it doesn't feel like worship energy. If a parasitical being collected a sufficient amount of divine love, it would probably be inspired to give up its parasitical ways.

When teenagers worship a pop star, that energy doesn't have anything to do with divine love.

Perhaps one of the reasons God used his being to create us is so he would have someone to share love and the joy of existence with.  Such love and joy has nothing to do with being treated in a worshipful way.

Perhaps it is best to think of God as a good friend, rather than a dictator you better obey or else.

The existence of a prime creator doesn't become an unreality because some people have claimed that such a being is someone to fear.

I don't believe that Jesus thought in such a way.  He did understand that our future is largely based on what we create for ourselves. The "as you sow so you reap" principle isn't about being punished by a dictator like being.





ross wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:28am:

Where do the graduates of our earth life experience go? Monroe stated that they become a super-being or some sort. What can graduates do? Has anyone here met a graduate?

Quote:


Very interesting post. Can you elaborate on this point just a bit? Are you speaking of graduating from our "earth physical life/lives" or from the "focus levels" altogether?

Watched a video of William Buhlman the other day. He says that when he passes over he doesn't want to waste time with all the illusionary consensus realities. He's going to demand "higher self now". Guess I'm shallow, but I've never astral traveled or OBEd (not sure I want to) and I'd like to experience all there is, excluding the hell realms of course. Doesn't seem to me that "wasting time" has any meaning in eternity. 

Another thought occurs to me. Is there some sort of endgame? We speak of the "earth system". In a couple billion years, this planet will be uninhabitable. The sun is going to eventually boil off the oceans and leave Earth as a charred ball of rock, if not swallow it whole. What happens to our earth astral system over deep time? Might be a little bleak for the late bloomers and those who won't graduate.

I am speaking of graduation from the entire Earth system, which includes its astral or subtle planes. The system is similar to the layers of an onion.

As I understand it, most near graduation do not consciously OBE/astral travel. Being able to consciously leave the body can be related to spiritual attainment but is not necessarily an indicator of it. Some do and some don't; it is not really an issue. For me it is a bit of a quirk of makeup that resulted from the coming together of consequences from some past experiences and conditioning. I am not a particularly spiritual type, or I don't think so anyway. It happens for me even when I don't mean it to, sometimes during prayer, sometimes during sleep or meditation, sometimes not at all for long periods, and sometimes I am "stretched out" and flexible for long periods and able to do it simultaneously with going about normal business. I seldom try any more, just accept it as it comes. I think many more people could do it with right training. But most people have more important things to do, like attend to their families, relationships, studies, work and life duties, which should not be neglected for occult hobbies.

The condition of the heart centre is the only measurement of a person's spirituality. The condition of the other centres and any occult abilities don't count, all that counts is the condition of the heart centre, for upon the heart's condition rides the condition of all the other centres.

The Earth is likely to last a long time. It is still young. If by chance it were to be destroyed it would be no great problem. When a school is destroyed the children are just moved to another school.

Ross:

I've thought of something else. I've found that our spiritual progress often doesn't take place in the way we expect.  We can't determine whether a lot of OBEs are right for us, simply because they are right for someone else.

Perhaps Bruce Moen's "Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook" might be helpful to you (his 5th book).

I don't know enough about Shamanic approaches to say anything about them.


ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

Exactly; some very good points, Bill and Recov.

We cannot gauge a person's spiritual ability by their ability to go out of body.
OOBEs can be enabled by spiritual ability, but there are more spiritual people around than can leave their bodies.
We can't even gauge a person's spirituality by their words and behaviour.
Although I have made significant efforts at my development, I am very average as a man, little different from most. I am even quite the contrary of what is considered good and spiritual by many people. But neither do I think spirituality is worn like a badge. It is a quiet thing. If anything, it can be detected by what comes from us, I mean our influence, our effects on others, whether our effects on others are beneficial or detrimental in a real sense; these are our fruits.

But even a spiritual soul may, at a particular time or during a particular life, be giving forth little fruit. The simpleton, the neurotic, the seeming nasty or criminal, the dysfunctional down and out tramp, the humble church goer, the thoughtful atheist, the business man, the labourer, the person struggling with gambling, drinking, anger, or some other problem, almost anyone could be a generally spiritually advanced soul while resolving a particular aspect of themselves during this life. A soul often leaves much of itself out of the incarnation and manifests only its problematic aspects to be resolved. Just like when we go into a class in school we only take out our books relevant to the subject of that class, and we leave our books of other subjects closed and in their place.   Conversely, a person may seem to be quite spiritual and have it all together while they are refining certain achievements, but in their soul are mountains of troubles awaiting their time to be resolved through lives that will appear quite unspiritual. Just like a person may be accomplished at some subjects but lack understanding and accomplishment at others. We may be seeing a soul only at their best or worst, and they may have other aspect that are quite different to what we see, even to what they themselves are aware of at the time. 

Lives are like posts on internet forums like this, with each post being part of a thread with a theme. So too, going back through our lives we have those lives that were themed with our current life, and we may have series of lives with different themes. Something like a string of beads with many different colours, and looking along the string we see beads of the same colours. The beads of the same colours and like lives of related themes.   

When younger I used to suffer a lot with why I would leave the body and other things which many consider spiritual, and why I had spiritual yearnings, but was also aggressive and confrontational, and why people who I knew were genuinely good people could not do what I could do. Then during one of my out of body experiences when I was desperate to know why I am "unusual" and contradictory, I was taken up above the earth and shown the course of all my lives, as a silver trail over the globe and going back through time over thousands of years. Along the trail were occasional nodes of light. These were pivotal points along my development which had had lasting effects. I dipped into each node and saw that life and what the pivotal experience was. Most were not what one would normally think of as spiritually developing experiences, although admittedly a few were, and their was usually an effort in me to learn from experiences. And each of the pivotal life experiences on their own would not have caused a great shift of development much different from most other people. But in combination with each other the repercussions or consequences of them all came together in this life to enable certain abilities like out of body experiences. So the repercussions of the pivotal experiences coming together now are something like the tumblers of a lock being turned to the right place at the same time and the lock opens. Between the lives that showed as pivotal nodes were streams of many more lives that were  average and ordinary, doing things both right and wrong and solving and collecting problems, as we all do. Some of the trail was blacked out so that I could not access it, for there were lives there that knowledge of them would not assist me now. This is why I don't take credit for my abilities, for I did not intend them or strive to develop them, not until they started to emerge in this life, then I started developing them. But aside from them, I am fairly ordinary in most ways, except for the knowledge that has come from them. 

cb    

ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:05am:


Yes, certainly. Some years ago I astral travelled many times with another person. To her they were all dreams; but I experienced them as out of body excursions. Her dreams and my excursion were identical. We attended many out of body classes and lessons, and would compare notes afterwards, which were always the same, except that mine were more detailed because I could remember them more clearly. We attended classes on character and psychology and its relation to health and disease and to anatomy and physiology, and lessons on human relations, particularly our own. Most of my earlier out of body excursions through the 80's & 90's were to attend classes, lessons and educations. Most were personal lessons but many were group educations where I am usually the only one conscious and others are dreaming or unconscious. Class numbers vary from a few to hundreds. Here is an example of a more recent class:   https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/human-relations-promiscuity
Most of my lessons have been one to one. Some that I think might be useful to others are described in the blog.

People who are truly in love, and understanding and forgiving of each other, and people who are mature, responsible, and understanding of the human condition and who are on top of their life's work, can astral travel together. One person must take the lead and the other/s attach to them, otherwise they separate.

When people are consciously out of body they communicate simply by looking at each other and by being in each other's presence. There is no effort to communicate, it just happens. This presents a barrier to conscious out of body excursion for most people. For when two people are consciously out of body together they can, at a glance, see deep into each other's souls and see every thought and desire each other has, including every distasteful, selfish, shameful, thought and desire, and the feelings that go with it; feelings of greed, cunning, hatefulness, taking advantage, etc, not just at that moment but every thought, desire and feeling they have every had. The person's entire character with all their secret traits is visible, and sensible to each other. There is nothing that can be hidden. The subconscious is extremely protective of itself. People's subconscious can sense this vulnerability that would occur when consciously out of body prior to it happening and so the subconscious (which is the sum-total of all our thoughts and feelings in storage) prevents conscious out of body excursions happening, especially with others. Some people think they would like to go out of body with another person but in reality their subconscious would not allow it, nor even allow the slightest likelihood of it happening. Most people hide most of themselves from others.

Of course there are ways to overcome this difficulty. It involves conditioning our self, so that there is understanding of human weaknesses, love regardless, not taking advantage of others, helpfulness, maturity, responsibility, trustfulness, and similar traits, so that two people can travel safely together.

When out of body, one can travel over cities and countries, and can scan and inspect people, individually and collectively, (see examples here:
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/the-current-world-conflict-part-4/ 

and here:  https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/a-meditation-group-2/   )  and to do this consciously and safely, one must be of a particular condition of character. One such condition is one must be harmless, and to be harmless one must be able to do harm and have proved one won't do it, for being weak and unable to do harm is not a virtue and is not trustworthy; sufficient sincerity and understanding are important requirements; and one must be committed to certain causes and have certain understandings, regarding truth, the human condition and freewill, individual growth and responsibility, and other matters which enable one to scan other's safely. Research and Service are the only two legitimate reasons for consciously leaving the body. All other reasons carry risk and may be detrimental. There are occasional exceptions due to accidents or chance. If you leave the body for mischief you will get into strife and regret. 

To give the reader an idea of what a person's subconscious can do. If you are out of body and you are not in acceptable condition and if you venture near someone whose subconscious does not want you near them, then their subconscious will hit you something like the shockwave that comes from standing too near a heavy naval gun when it fires. The shockwave will knock you back with such force that you will bounce back to your body and probably never leave your body again for many years if ever at all. The subconscious can sense if someone else is insincere or untrustworthy, even potentially so. And the role that the subconscious takes most seriously is its own defence. 

And there are other matters that make being consciously out of body difficult, whether with or without another person. The most significant is that one's own will and the purpose of the excursion must be in tune with the will of one's oversoul or master self, I mean that part of oneself that is within and above the conscience, and of which we are an extension on the plane of Earth, and which conscience is the voice of within our self. This is difficult to achieve for most people because they have their own freewill and are reluctant to cooperate with that will of which they are free, being the conscience. I mean the true conscience, not the feel-good one that is reflected in the emotions, like the sun in water, below us, upside down and not the real item. The real conscience is like a skylight at the inner upper pinnacle of our soul. One must also be reasonably on top of one's life duties, for the oversoul does not enable out of body excursions unless one is on top of one's life duties which are our true purpose and first priority. And one must be conscious most of the time while going about life, for if one is not conscious, then one cannot consciously leave the body. Most people go about with little if any conscious wakefulness, as if on auto pilot, only taking conscious control now and then. It is the development of deliberate conscious wakefulness that enables conscious leaving of body. So there is a lot for us as individuals to work on.                

ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 12:50am:


  There are different kinds and degrees of "graduation".  There is the individual consciousness "graduation", wherein a self reaches a certain degree of attunement to expanded Love and awareness and they go into other systems of consciousness more expanded than this one.  In a sense, you could say they become "E.T.'s". Sometimes literally and sometimes figuratively (meaning sometimes the systems they phase to also have physical like bodies to inhabit and others are more purely mental or what we would call "nonphysical"). Occasionally some come back here for service reasons--most often during particularly changed filled cycles (like the one we are in now).

Some may become like super guides after a time, the "Elders" that preside during life reviews that we hear about in various sources, including NDE's.  They don't incarnate anymore in any particular system (or rather, very, very, very rarely), but they are involved with many systems and dimensions, doing their part in the expansion of the consciousness of the Whole.

  Then there is the graduation of the Expanded, total self or what Bruce calls the Disk.

   I don't know exactly what happens in that case. I "suspect" that it becomes a full Co-Creator with Source.  Creating new realities, systems, worlds, etc and consciousnesses to grow in same and contribute to this ever expanding processes.

   A combo of guidance, intuition, and being led to certain outer sources with common elements, leads me to think that the human we call "Jesus", comes from a Disk or Expanded self that is one of those Creator Beings, and was the Co-Creator of parts of our larger reality.

   There are others out there beside him. But generally they are much more involved with their Co-Created realities than this one.

  There are probably other things besides these that go on. I still have a pretty limited conscious awareness of the Whole, being connected to a human body, and having some ways to go before i and my "Disk" is fully attuned to pure Love. 

recoverer wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:


1.  It is important to generalise. The ability to discriminate and to generalise are the same ability. To discriminate is the ability to differentiate between one thing and another, and to evaluate it. To generalise is to recognise a pattern of similarity within a majority. It is the same function, multiplied. The ability to discriminate and generalise is a base function of intelligence. Look at the items (the questions) in an IQ test, they all require the ability to discriminate and generalise.  Intelligence is the scope of awareness divided by distinctions perceived, and multiplied by relationships recognised. In other words, intelligence is the ability to discriminate and generalise across the scope of one’s awareness, and the degree of subtlety to which this can be done is the measure of intelligence. And intelligence and consciousness are the same item, the difference being largely referential. So don't limit yourself; exercise and develop your intelligence, and this will widen, intensify and refine your consciousness.

"We mustn't generalise", is a false doctrine propagated by leftist psychologists to dumb others down and keep themselves elite, and who know very well that generalising is the basis of intelligence. They are hypocrites. They administer IQ tests - testing people's ability to discriminate and generalise. They generalise all the time, for a living - one example is drawing conclusions from statistics, another is analysing psychometric character tests, another is categorising their clients, then they go tell their students, clients, groups, school children not to generalise. Likewise, "we must be non-judgemental" is another of their cons - they are more judgemental than you can imagine. "Follow your feelings", and "honour your emotions", are also cons. THEY don't, not the smart ones, only their dumb lackies. They remain cognitive, mentally centred, while telling gullible others to be emotionally focused and discouraging them from using and developing intelligence and mind, because they know emotionally centred people are easily manipulated and controlled by mentally centred people. There are many people on this and similar forums who are neurotic about bad entities and alien influence, but fall right into the social influences of manipulative people all around you. Wake up people! Think for yourself. Use and develop your God-given intelligence. Don't let elitists dumb you down.


2. Yes, there is one reasonably sure indicator of a non-spiritual person - they take mind altering drugs. No one who is genuinely working on developing the natural abilities of their own consciousness takes consciousness altering drugs.

All those pot smokers and other drug users who act spiritual and wise are fakes. Cannabis is a drug of delusion. It makes people believe they are more wise and insightful than they are, when in fact they are full of delusions. And it has long term effects.   

Sensibly prescribed medication is helpful though, for those who need it. 

cb

PS. Here, have a laugh at potheads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUnexhValx8
Its funny 'cause its true.

Another thought on the drug thing.

Are there occasions when a person who takes drugs has an experience that is similar to a person who has an NDE?

If so, in this case, something that is "generally" not good might be okay.

Yes fellows, I agree. I am aware that many people have experienced insights, realisations or had highly influential, even life changing experiences while under the influence of drugs, and that experience may have prompted them to make efforts in a spiritual direction. I am one such person. Thirty something years ago I had a drug induced influential experience.
You can read about that occasion if you like:
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/the-jamieson-event/

So it does happen, I am well aware of it. I would not recommend someone goes looking for it though. Many, many more people are adversely effected by illicit drugs than are benefitted by them. Psychotic drug users clog our psych units, preventing many genuinely mentally unwell people from accessing treatment, and drug users make up most offenders in prisons in regions where other factors are not prevalent. Few non-drug users will deny that drug users are unpleasant to be around.   

But I am a great believer in individual freewill and its potential to learn, and what an individual does is up to them, until they detrimentally effect others, then it becomes other people's business too.

Many types of experience can serve as an abrupt catalyst; a car accident, being mugged, spending time down and out, a marriage beak up, prison sentence, etc. Or more often they don't serve to initiate abrupt change, but might influence gradual change years later after there digestion, or there might seem little change at all.

With abrupt personal change due to a catalysing influence, the ingredients need to be already present in the personality. The catalysing event just brings them together and shakes them up a bit to produce the reaction. Sooner or later, gradually or abruptly, by one event or another, or by several, the change would probably have occurred.      

If one wanted to become naturally physically fit and strong, one can exercise and eat and life well, or one can take anabolic steroids (synthetic or extracted testosterone). One method will make one naturally fit, strong and healthy, and the other method will make one artificially fit, strong, and eventually unhealthy.

So it is with illicit psychoactive drugs and their effect on the mind. There might seem to be a benefit upon the mind, but in the long term there is not, only detriment. And even in the short term much damage can be done that is never healed.

cb

By the way, it is a total myth that cannabis is physically or psychologically non-addictive, it is both. And it is a total myth that cannabis lessens aggression and violence. Yes it can make some people calm and dopy, but their tolerance is lessened and they are usually more violent when aggravated. Methamphetamines get most of the blame but cannabis is used extensively by predatory thugs and criminals to relax them when they go out on the hunt for their victims. Some racial demographics deliberately use cannabis to make themselves aggressive and calm at the same time, to make themselves calmer and more vicious and effective predators.      

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Justin, you certainly seem to posses advanced knowledge of astrology, and of human nature, from psychopathy right through to high spirituality, and of the human centres of consciousness, and of the aura too. 

For the benefit of those readers who cannot see auras, can you please explain how it is done, or how you do it, in clearly defined and described steps so that others might follow them and verify the subject for themselves.

cb

Gman wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 12:59am:

There’s no need to apologise, that is a perfectly sensible question, George.
No, I’m not on any medication. Nor do I need to be. I am quite happy with life. 

On that point however, persons with schizophrenia or drug induced psychosis can describe similar experiences to what I have described, so any sensible person reading mine or anyone else’s accounts of out-of-body experiences should naturally consider the possibility of some sort of schizoid syndrome. It is upon the individual reader to judge for themselves.

It might go towards helping the reader in their judgement to look for consistency and inconsistency, rationality and irrationality, organisation or disorganisation, connectedness or disconnectedness. Are there examples of claims about societal demographics, so that others might see and recognise the same or similar examples for themselves? Are terms clearly defined, and processes described, so as to build up a cognitive picture for someone who might be interested in understanding what is written, and so that they might, if they are sufficiently driven and free to do so, explore along the same or similar lines, and perhaps establish for themselves the validity or falsity of the information put forward? Socratic questioning or a Socratic analysis can be used to indicate confusion/delusion, falsity, or truth.

I do not believe that 1796 is a deluded person. I've read about some of his experiences and it seems to me that he was involved with more than hallucinations. A part of what enables me to consider the validity of his experiences is that I've had many of my own, and this provides me with a way to compare. Plus, he seems to have a lot of wisdom that goes beyond being a person who hallucinates a lot.

It is possible to receive information in a way where you are quite certain that you are doing more than hallucinating. Consider what Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen wrote. At first they wondered about the validity of what they experienced, but eventually they were able to determine that it was valid. 

I've found that it can take time to get over the doubts, but eventually the evidence is so compelling that you know it is as valid if not more, than what you experience in this physical World.

There have been a number of occasions where I received information about things I didn't know before hand, and I was able to verify it later. Some of this information was very detailed. This is so even on the occasions when the information came in the form of hearing a voice say something. I live in California. There have been three occasions when I heard a voice say that an Earthquake was going to take place, and then it took palce.



1796 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

Justin, Okay.

Gman, if you wonder about me, no, I haven't been smoking the reefer CB speaks against. 

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  Catty?  Well, i plead the 5th on that one, the 5th Sign that is, wah, wah.  Hard to not be a little Catty with having a Leo Ascendant, Meow, meow....ROARRR.  Especially us liberal Leo Risings... (the worst kind possible, as our roarr is worse than our bite!)

Modified/edited to leave just the humor...

ross wrote on Jul 14^th, 2015 at 2:17pm:


Christianity is an accelerated graduation method. It is one God, one love, one life chance, with high pressure, high stress, and with potential for souls to achieve maximum success and maximum failure.

It was grafted onto the Jewish God concept, being an all inclusive, ever extensive, omniscient God of right and wrong. Although the Tao is also an all inclusive, ever extensive, omniscient God, it is a God of harmony and disharmony rather than of right and wrong, making it less suitable to have had the teachings of forgiveness grafted onto it.

crossbow

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  Not sure i would say most myself, but yes, definitely a percentage of consciousnesses seem to be addicted to the Solar system and earth incarnations.  I say solar system, rather than earth system, because the physical planets represent/are symbolic of the nonphysical afterlife dimensions connected to the physical earth.

    As to why they are addicted to the earth/solar system, perhaps a modern day parable will say it well.  When i was a child first getting into music, i had more anger, sadness, rebellious, etc tendencies and i was more attracted to more loud and chaotic type music.  Sure, i liked some ballads even from a younger age like Stairway to Heaven, but my tastes were a bit different then as compared to now.  As i've grown and matured, i find myself being more consistently attracted to harmonious and uplifting type music.

  It's less flashy, less dramatic, and more soothing overall. Doesn't always have the high, intense energy of my former musical tastes, but leaves me less angsty feeling, but a lot more peaceful.

   So it is with the Earth system as compared to the more expanded systems.  The latter tend to be much more harmonious, which to less mature souls can seem more "boring", because it doesn't have the flash, dazzle, loud, attention getting wow factor.

  Some disks are here more for service reasons than needing or wanting to be here.  They often do have some "probes" that get caught up in the melodrama to some extent, but just as often they have probes that are coming and going into other expanded systems and sometimes back (again for service reasons).  There is consciousness growth involved for them from the service part, but not so much "learning" or "remembering" things that this system is good at facilitating. 

   Btw, why not connect with expanded guidance and ask them these interesting questions?  Fellow in-physical/human sources tend to be a more limited and limiting resource for the most part, except for someone like "He/She" and to a lesser extent some other not quite as expanded folks.

What are the criteria for graduation (for our Earth system)? Can anyone list them?

ross wrote on Jul 20^th, 2015 at 12:26am:

First you have to write a bunch of essays, pass those, take some tests, pass those, and then write a thesis and pass that...

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Justin. Talk about "Go faster, chemicals," that seem to be in  your brain at the moment, and I hope it's just caffeine. I suggest you sell your spiritual-mental dragster! Best Regards. George, Gman   

  At first i thought it might be better to not respond to your reply Gman, but then i thought it might be a good teaching moment. Not for you necessarily, but perhaps to those on the fence so to speak. Besides, my moralistic, impersonal sermonizing would probably irritate you more than engaging in similar personal, confrontational interaction...   

  I don't always like criticism at first, but if it's related to my behavior, and/or comes from someone who feels sincere and positively intentioned, i try to be open minded/hearted to what they are saying. 

    While i'm not fully certain what your intentions are, they don't feel particularly positive in essence.  Feels more like belittling for the sake of belittling.  I've learned that those that partake in a consistent pattern of criticism of others in a purely personal sense (just making it about the person and their supposed lacks), and not so much disagreeing or differing with the ideas, beliefs, etc well the criticism they offer is usually more of reflection of themselves and their shadow than the person they are criticizing. 

  But to answer your specific allegations:  I make a strong effort to treat the temple that i currently use, well, because i know that a clear, healthy, and balanced temple allows my consciousness to flow through and into the physical more purely and with less distortions. 

For me, this is and has been a very holistic process.  I ingest very little in the way of "substances" of which you imply, including almost no caffeine and pharmaceuticals.  I do occasionally drink a little dark beer and red wine, and very, very rarely--once in a rare blue moon socially vaporize a little weed with some friends.  I don't like being over extreme or puritanical in any area.  I've probably vaporized about 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years. In my case, it is neither a plus, nor a detriment.  It's little different than Yeshua drinking some occasional wine at social functions like weddings. It had no power over him, and little effect on him. It was a social act/interaction and that's it.

But generally speaking, i eat and live a lifestyle that is pretty disciplined, healthy, and pure in the consistent sense.  Both life and guidance has steered me in that direction for various reasons.

  So i'll have to contradict you, my seeming out thereness in that and other posts doesn't come from any kind of chemical substance.  It comes from a complex admixture of experiences, intuition, more overt guidance, being led to certain outer sources by guidance, and above all growing in Love. 

  The more you grow in Love, the more your perception tends to expand.  If there is a pinnacle of same, i have not yet reached it, so i don't doubt there are distortions and limiting factors to some of what i say.  This is why i also recommend for people to directly attune to expanded guidance themselves. 

  But giving out general info that is mostly accurate is ok. It's when one tries to direct the personal life of others in a more personal sense, that they start to run into more potential problems, and best be more sure that self is coming from the most clear and expanded space.  I'm still trying to figure out if doing that with Bruce re: the negative E.T. issue was a constructive or non constructive choice/pattern or not.  Sometimes it's hard knowing what the most expanded way really is. 

  Anyways George, hope you enjoyed the sermon.  Remember, cleverness is never a good substitute for empathy. It's a hard lesson for especially older, intellectual men to get, but worthwhile before they leave this area of reality.

It could be that somebody graduated, came back here to help out, and doesn't know this while here.

recoverer wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 12:03pm:


Grow Up!

Pure Unconditional Love. Bruce uses the term. I don't know if he originated it.


ross wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:43pm: