1796 said: "I have met sharman/witchdoctor/magician types while out of body. They are only found on the lower planes. From what I have seen of them they are not greatly efficient or knowledgeable. Dreamers and drug takers mostly, so they don't achieve much. Although I met a magician who was quite powerful. We had a little run-in. He was stronger than me at the time of our first encounter, but I have learnt a little more since then. He and his kind are not very pleasant, and their living is tiresome for them and their future is bleak unless individually they make changes, and come to the light, so to speak. They are in an awkward situation, continually trying to offset their karma, but they can't do so forever, and when it comes upon them it is most unpleasant. There are criminal organisations everywhere. But no worthwhile reward comes from joining them."

Recoverer responds:  "As I said earlier, I don't know much about Shamans. It troubles me that they use drugs and give them to people.  It is important to not generalize, but I can't imagine taking drugs to grow spiritually. At this point of my life and with all the grace I've experienced I believe it would be irresponsible to take drugs. A responsible teacher would be able to help people without having them take drugs.

New age people are sometimes over trusting, in a naïve way, and therefore are sometimes too quick to trust channelers and shamans.  There could be cases where shamans work with unfriendly spirits. Even some shamans say this. Shamanism is partly popular because of Carlos Castaneda who was a fraud.  There is another well known western shaman type (I can't remember her name now), who is also a fraud.

I can't say I understand that animal spirit thing. Why would you want to receive help from an un-evolved animal spirit when better choices are available?

Just because something seems exotic and is different than what is Western, that doesn't mean it has value.

"We cannot gauge a person's spiritual ability by their ability to go out of body."

  Of course, but it also depends on what one means by "out of body".  I find Rosalind McKnight's main guide, "Ah So"'s teachings on out of body states and experiences to be particularly insightful and holistic in nature. 

   He talks about how we have different levels of our human energy or consciousness system. 

  He associates classic "Out of body" experiences and states with the 2nd main level after the physical body, what some call the "etheric" level. 

   He said usually there is fear and human baggage involved with exploring via this level.  He implied that more evolved humans tended to not phase into this level of self and explore, but tend to go to the emotional and mental levels of self, which are more rarefied and in a vibratory sense, much farther away from (faster vibrating) the dense, slow vibratory physical.

  Because of this, experiences here tend to be more subtle and not as vivid or "real" feeling as classic out of body experiences via the etheric level.

   My experience so far bears some of this out. The only time i had a classic out of body experience, was during a rather slow vibratory phase/cycle i went through.  I was more ego centered, had a higher sex drive and focus, and just wasn't my usual or typical self when i had a classic OBE. 

Interestingly from astrological perspective, this cycle occurred when both transit Saturn and Mars were conjuncting my Ascendant and in my 1st house, and transit Pluto was closely squaring my natal Saturn, which rules my Sun sign Capricorn.  A whole lot of astrological heaviness was going on. 

Mars, Saturn, and Pluto as symbols are all associated with lower self, ego energy, though Pluto can also be associated with expanded consciousness too (Pluto is sort of like Kundalini energy and the process of purification).

  The most advanced humans, according to "Ah So" (not really his name, but a humorous label that Bob Monroe gave to him) phase into and through the 5th or "spiritual" level of self.  These have complete control over all the slower vibratory levels of self, including their physical body, and can experience things like being in two places at once or disappearing "bodily" from the carnal perceptions of others.  They mention Yeshua (Jesus) being like this. If the Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi has any merit, then apparently "John the Baptist" did this on occasion too (though in my mind, he might have had ET help).

   I don't have any conscious experience with this level while connected to my body.  My intuition tells me it's true though.

1796:

I see what you're saying, but there might be a few people who had a mind altering drug experience, and it helped them become spiritually awake.

On the other hand, I know people who have taken acid, peyote, magic mushrooms etc., and they didn't become spiritual at all. It could be that those who are inspired spiritually by drugs had it in them in the first place.

Yeah Pot, those who take it like to say it isn't addictive simply because it isn't a drug like cocaine.  It might not be physically addictive, but if a user likes it to an extent where he defends using it, chances are that he is psychologically addicted.

I believe it is possible that a person's aura becomes weaker when he takes drugs and it becomes easier for unfriendly beings to penetrate his aura.  Of course, if a person has an everything is cool attitude he might not consider this factor.

Overall, if a person is willing to make the changes he needs to make in order to grow spiritually,  he won't need to take drugs. On the other hand, if he isn't willing to make the required changes, what good will it do him to take drugs? How come shamans who prescribe drugs don't consider this question? Perhaps if they would've taken the time to develop themselves spiritually without taking drugs, they would've found out that drug usage is not needed.

  Thankfully reality doesn't conform to black and white, absolute oriented human belief systems. 

   The only absolutes i know of are the reality of Oneness, individuality, freewill, the law of Like attracts, begets, resonates with Like, and Love (which relates to Oneness).

  Everything else is often relative, and a big part of that is because of the combo of some of the above.  Oneness+individuality+freewill (or rather the ability to choose) is what leads to the relativity of reality.  Kind of like, you only need 3 primary colors to make many other colors and shades of color.

   Anyways, with that out of the way.  Drugs don't and can't cause spiritual growth directly, but there may be times when people have certain realizations while on same, which can indirectly lead to spiritual growth.

   For example, say you are a pretty typical western young adult with little interest in spirituality or deeper philosophy but fairly materialistic, tending towards the self centered,  etc. but you take a certain hallucinogen and for the first time in your life you experience or perceive Oneness and that experience/realization has a major impact on you. 

   This realization could inspire you to live your life differently, to start to make different choices than you have up until now.  However, you have to act upon the realization, you have to make the choice, to put your will into active mode, to put some effort into it. Hence, it's only ever indirect.

   The problems come when a person becomes dependent on the drug or doesn't act upon the realization despite the knowledge.  Knowledge not lived is even more limiting than plain ignorance.  Unfortunately, these do seem common, but to say or imply that no one has or will ever benefited from taking certain drugs, is both extreme and plain wrong. 

   The scientist who discovered the structure of DNA, later admitted he did so while under the influence of LSD for just one example. A number of people who were administered DMT (a natural substance in the body) in a lab setting, independently perceived Reptilian ET beings and were sure they were very much real beings.  Just that getting out into mainstream consciousness can have a potentially good effect to raise some awareness of a potentially important issue.

   Do i recommend drugs? Did i come to spiritual or nonphysical realizations through same? Not at all to both, but i also realize that reality can work in mysterious ways, and guidance can use many different things to reach people.

   Meditation, prayer, etc, is certainly preferable and safer speaking as a trend.  But even meditation isn't without potential risk. Without knowledge or right intent, one can overly open themselves to influences not best for self or the Whole's growth.  I know, because i once was in that boat.

  There is also the factor that the more you tend to make something like a chemical substance strongly "taboo", the more people, especially teens or those with a teen like mentality, will seek it.  If you treat it like no big deal, it loses it taboo appeal to those types of people.

  This is why i've stopped speaking a lot about certain sources of so called spiritual info that i know tend to have a limiting and/or harmful influence.  Don't want to keep it and interest in same alive. An impressionable or less mature personality might read my words, and be like, "cool, let's try this out, see if there is anything to this.  After all, i would like to experience something rather than nothing."  Just because i spoke against it strongly and turned it into a taboo.  Piques some people's curiosity. 

  I also don't recommend people injuring themselves to near point of death so that they have a NDE, BUT many Expanded selves working in tandem with the larger guidance system, set up exactly those conditions at times so that people can have a NDE. 

  See, relativity, spice of life.   

 

  Interesting about the astrology part.  I started looking into astrology at a pretty young age, got rather deep into it over the years, but don't tend to pay too much mind to it of late.

  I've figured that astrology works more based on something akin to Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity, rather than streams of force and energy, and all that. Since everything is interconnected, one aspect or part of reality, can align or reflect another aspect or part of reality.

  So astrology is more like a cosmic clock and metaphorical language describing and aligning to aspects of the human consciousness system. 

   Our chart just reflects how we used our will in other experiences.  In other words, it does not cause, only indicates or reflects.  It can do so, because of the Oneness of reality. A person is born at a specific time and place for many reasons, and the astrology of it lines up to and reflects that, and among other things indicates what they developed to previously and/or what they are choosing to express in this life (before freewill potentially changes things).

  Many students of astrology will say that you can't see spiritual level of development in a chart. Well, i would say that you can't see the current status (what's changed because of current use of freewill), but you can see what they came in with. 

  Very mature types, will have a very strong emphasis on Arcturus (you need to use parans with this more so than regular aspects), Sun, and Jupiter especially, and to a lesser extent Neptune and sometimes Pluto, but will have a good balance between Yin and Yang, with balanced integration between the intermediate and slow vibratory symbols also.  Uranus, Venus, and Mercury are more intermediate, in between.  Mars, Pluto, and Saturn are the slow vibratory symbols. Moon is sort of between the intermediate and slow vibratory symbols.  In fact, i put almost all of these in descending order from fastest vibratory symbols to the slowest--exception being Pluto, because it can be on either extreme.  Most people have most of the emphasis on the intermediate and slower vibratory symbols, with a lack the more expanded/fast vibratory symbols. 

  On the other extreme, Ted Bundy, Dick Cheney, and others like these psychopathic types have very, very strong combo of Saturn, Pluto, Mars, Mercury, with a lot of tense aspects  (especially difficult when in fixed signs) and lack of strength of the faster vibratory symbols.  Also too much Yang and too little Yin often.

   Signs are less indicative of deeper character or mental level energies.  They indicate more personality wavering patterns, and more so especially outer material conditions.  For example, someone with Sun in Virgo may not be critical, discriminating, neat, and all the superficial character sign stuff usually attributed to astrology, but they most likely will have a strong emphasis on jobs/practical service, health/diet, pets, and other more mundane/outer oriented patterns that are connected to Virgo. 

  But yes, you can associate various different colors and shades to various astrological symbols, especially to the Planets.  The Planets can also be associated with the endocrine glandular system, which some call "chakras".  Jupiter and Neptune for example, in the archetypal sense will be associated with the Pineal gland (violet color range), and Arcturus and Sun with Golden Light, and phasing from the Pineal to the Pituitary (golden cup that spilleth over), but also the Thymus and Heart center too (as the thymus and pituitary are very linked).  Uranus (deeper blue, but also to extreme mixes of colors) to the throat or rather thyroid gland.  Venus (cyan) to the less awakened heart/thymus.  Mercury to the adrenals and to yellow.  Moon (coral) to leydig gland, Mars, Saturn, and sometimes Pluto to the sex glands (mostly red, but those symbols can also indicate lack of Light aka darkness too). 

Pluto though is like Kundalini, it can be kept at the 1st level or lower levels, as it is in most, but it can also correspond to the Pituitary, and is symbolic of the purification or degradation of this process.  Pluto not used right is very psychopathic, and constructively channeled, facilitates towards that of Galactic Center Consciousness, which approaches that of the pure White Light.  (not that White Light, Source Consciousness can be represented by any singular symbol, why i used "approaches"). 

Only a relative few humans have reached Galactic Core Consciousness while in-physical as a human.  Even Arcturus and Solar level is fairly rare.

   *Edit to add: These also can be connected to the auric patterns.  For example, i know someone with a very strong combo of Sun, Arcturus, and Jupiter in their chart, with the other expanded and intermediate symbols also fairly highlighted, and the slow vibratory ones while not strong, still integrated and connected.  This person has a lot of purple and increasingly golden light in their aura.

   I know a person (female) with a very strong Venus, Aquarius, Sun, and Jupiter combo.  They have a lot of rose pink, cyan,  mauve, near indigo blue, and some golden light in their aura. 

   But, people can and do grow away from the chart, or sometimes regress/stagnate from what the chart indicates. All depends on how they use their freewill, whether constructively on average or in a limited way.

 

   

1796(CB)...My apologies, but are you on any prescribed psychiatric medications from your medical practitioner?..Again my apologies(I'm Sorry!)..Gman George 

1796 wrote on Jul 11^th, 2015 at 12:09am:


  Actually i do not see auras in the physical sense for the most part.  I've only seen colors on a couple of occasions. The "etheric" glow though, is pretty easy to see, and just involves sort of looking past the person some a little and not overly focusing on their specific form or attributes. 

  I receive this info more intuitively. I have never physically seen spiritual Oneness, but i've known, intuitively, the truth of it for a very long time and before i came upon any spiritual books or teachings.

  I first started studying astrology (as well as meditating) at age 13, and at age 16 started to get really deep into it and doing full charts.  I started to do charts for people for free.  At the same time, i became very interested in figuring out how astrology tied in with all the other metaphysical areas and subjects like auras, colors, numerology, energetic centers, spiritual evolution, the nonphysical dimensions, etc.  My interest in Cayce's work at the time (first because of health issues i was having), was partly a factor in this, because his guidance suggested connections between all these areas.

   I was already very aware of the universal law of Like attracts, begets, and resonates with Like on the deeper levels.  As i would do people's charts, i would sometimes get impressions about color in relation to them.  Plus i would meditate on the archetypal associations of colors and vibration with the different planets, etc. 

   I started to ask people things like, is your favorite color or colors this or that?  When people answered in the affirmative enough times, i realized i was getting somewhere.  Like doesn't just attract and beget like, it also fundamentally tends to like/prefer Like.

  In other words, people tended to prefer the same colors that were most prominent in their aura. Someone that has the color red very prominent in their aura and/or Mars dominant in their chart, often likes the color red a lot.

  I also looked at outside sources of info to some extent to see what their associations were.  Often though, i disagreed with a lot of the associations.  Some where downright illogical. 

  For example, some associate the Planet Mars with the number 9.  9 in numerology tends to the expanded in meaning, though it also has it's dark side like any symbol of consciousness.  Things like universal service, compassion, spiritual power, etc. are fairly universally associated with 9's "meaning" or rather indication. 

  Yet, Mars is nothing like any of that. Mars at it's very best, provides the necessary energy and initiative to act on one's deeper or spiritual ideals.  At it's worst, it is extremely ego centered and separative, very, very red and anti-spirtual and overly grounded.  This is where holistic logic also comes into play.

  9 in reality, is much more associated with Jupiter and potentially with the positive aspect of Pluto (the transformation side of 9) imo. 

    At some point i realized that while all this stuff was interesting, it wasn't very important. Around age 27 or so, i decided to focus more on bettering self, service to others, and growing in love, and getting in touch with expanded guidance. In other words, i started to grow up and realize what's more important. 

   While i have peripheral awareness of these issues and topics, it's not a focus for me anymore.

   I'm curious as to why you are so curious about my personhood? 

   Why not be upfront and honest about what you think and how you feel? 

   Why not get deep in mediation and specifically ask to connect only to Yeshua, the Teacher of teachers, and ask him about me if you are so curious? 


 

  Albert, you missed the subtle, indirect sarcastic inference of "Gman" aka most likely Carl, aka Harvey, etc our favorite local skeptic and derider of others.

  He was more making fun of me, because of 1796's seemingly positive words in relation to me. 



    In some ways (spiritually/nonphysically), Albert knows me better than anyone, including even my spouse. I'm not going to explain that though, other to say that we are of similar purpose, ideals, and origin pre this life.