Yes, I agree with you Albert.

cb

Perhaps one thing they might collect is worship energy. As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe that God is a being who wants to be worshiped.  Why would a vast, perhaps infinite being of love, want worship energy? At that level of being such neediness doesn't exist.

When I feel divine love it doesn't feel like worship energy. If a parasitical being collected a sufficient amount of divine love, it would probably be inspired to give up its parasitical ways.

When teenagers worship a pop star, that energy doesn't have anything to do with divine love.

Perhaps one of the reasons God used his being to create us is so he would have someone to share love and the joy of existence with.  Such love and joy has nothing to do with being treated in a worshipful way.

Perhaps it is best to think of God as a good friend, rather than a dictator you better obey or else.

The existence of a prime creator doesn't become an unreality because some people have claimed that such a being is someone to fear.

I don't believe that Jesus thought in such a way.  He did understand that our future is largely based on what we create for ourselves. The "as you sow so you reap" principle isn't about being punished by a dictator like being.





ross wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:28am:

Where do the graduates of our earth life experience go? Monroe stated that they become a super-being or some sort. What can graduates do? Has anyone here met a graduate?

Quote:


Very interesting post. Can you elaborate on this point just a bit? Are you speaking of graduating from our "earth physical life/lives" or from the "focus levels" altogether?

Watched a video of William Buhlman the other day. He says that when he passes over he doesn't want to waste time with all the illusionary consensus realities. He's going to demand "higher self now". Guess I'm shallow, but I've never astral traveled or OBEd (not sure I want to) and I'd like to experience all there is, excluding the hell realms of course. Doesn't seem to me that "wasting time" has any meaning in eternity. 

Another thought occurs to me. Is there some sort of endgame? We speak of the "earth system". In a couple billion years, this planet will be uninhabitable. The sun is going to eventually boil off the oceans and leave Earth as a charred ball of rock, if not swallow it whole. What happens to our earth astral system over deep time? Might be a little bleak for the late bloomers and those who won't graduate.

I am speaking of graduation from the entire Earth system, which includes its astral or subtle planes. The system is similar to the layers of an onion.

As I understand it, most near graduation do not consciously OBE/astral travel. Being able to consciously leave the body can be related to spiritual attainment but is not necessarily an indicator of it. Some do and some don't; it is not really an issue. For me it is a bit of a quirk of makeup that resulted from the coming together of consequences from some past experiences and conditioning. I am not a particularly spiritual type, or I don't think so anyway. It happens for me even when I don't mean it to, sometimes during prayer, sometimes during sleep or meditation, sometimes not at all for long periods, and sometimes I am "stretched out" and flexible for long periods and able to do it simultaneously with going about normal business. I seldom try any more, just accept it as it comes. I think many more people could do it with right training. But most people have more important things to do, like attend to their families, relationships, studies, work and life duties, which should not be neglected for occult hobbies.

The condition of the heart centre is the only measurement of a person's spirituality. The condition of the other centres and any occult abilities don't count, all that counts is the condition of the heart centre, for upon the heart's condition rides the condition of all the other centres.

The Earth is likely to last a long time. It is still young. If by chance it were to be destroyed it would be no great problem. When a school is destroyed the children are just moved to another school.

Ross:

I've thought of something else. I've found that our spiritual progress often doesn't take place in the way we expect.  We can't determine whether a lot of OBEs are right for us, simply because they are right for someone else.

Perhaps Bruce Moen's "Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook" might be helpful to you (his 5th book).

I don't know enough about Shamanic approaches to say anything about them.


ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

Exactly; some very good points, Bill and Recov.

We cannot gauge a person's spiritual ability by their ability to go out of body.
OOBEs can be enabled by spiritual ability, but there are more spiritual people around than can leave their bodies.
We can't even gauge a person's spirituality by their words and behaviour.
Although I have made significant efforts at my development, I am very average as a man, little different from most. I am even quite the contrary of what is considered good and spiritual by many people. But neither do I think spirituality is worn like a badge. It is a quiet thing. If anything, it can be detected by what comes from us, I mean our influence, our effects on others, whether our effects on others are beneficial or detrimental in a real sense; these are our fruits.

But even a spiritual soul may, at a particular time or during a particular life, be giving forth little fruit. The simpleton, the neurotic, the seeming nasty or criminal, the dysfunctional down and out tramp, the humble church goer, the thoughtful atheist, the business man, the labourer, the person struggling with gambling, drinking, anger, or some other problem, almost anyone could be a generally spiritually advanced soul while resolving a particular aspect of themselves during this life. A soul often leaves much of itself out of the incarnation and manifests only its problematic aspects to be resolved. Just like when we go into a class in school we only take out our books relevant to the subject of that class, and we leave our books of other subjects closed and in their place.   Conversely, a person may seem to be quite spiritual and have it all together while they are refining certain achievements, but in their soul are mountains of troubles awaiting their time to be resolved through lives that will appear quite unspiritual. Just like a person may be accomplished at some subjects but lack understanding and accomplishment at others. We may be seeing a soul only at their best or worst, and they may have other aspect that are quite different to what we see, even to what they themselves are aware of at the time. 

Lives are like posts on internet forums like this, with each post being part of a thread with a theme. So too, going back through our lives we have those lives that were themed with our current life, and we may have series of lives with different themes. Something like a string of beads with many different colours, and looking along the string we see beads of the same colours. The beads of the same colours and like lives of related themes.   

When younger I used to suffer a lot with why I would leave the body and other things which many consider spiritual, and why I had spiritual yearnings, but was also aggressive and confrontational, and why people who I knew were genuinely good people could not do what I could do. Then during one of my out of body experiences when I was desperate to know why I am "unusual" and contradictory, I was taken up above the earth and shown the course of all my lives, as a silver trail over the globe and going back through time over thousands of years. Along the trail were occasional nodes of light. These were pivotal points along my development which had had lasting effects. I dipped into each node and saw that life and what the pivotal experience was. Most were not what one would normally think of as spiritually developing experiences, although admittedly a few were, and their was usually an effort in me to learn from experiences. And each of the pivotal life experiences on their own would not have caused a great shift of development much different from most other people. But in combination with each other the repercussions or consequences of them all came together in this life to enable certain abilities like out of body experiences. So the repercussions of the pivotal experiences coming together now are something like the tumblers of a lock being turned to the right place at the same time and the lock opens. Between the lives that showed as pivotal nodes were streams of many more lives that were  average and ordinary, doing things both right and wrong and solving and collecting problems, as we all do. Some of the trail was blacked out so that I could not access it, for there were lives there that knowledge of them would not assist me now. This is why I don't take credit for my abilities, for I did not intend them or strive to develop them, not until they started to emerge in this life, then I started developing them. But aside from them, I am fairly ordinary in most ways, except for the knowledge that has come from them. 

cb    

ross wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:05am:


Yes, certainly. Some years ago I astral travelled many times with another person. To her they were all dreams; but I experienced them as out of body excursions. Her dreams and my excursion were identical. We attended many out of body classes and lessons, and would compare notes afterwards, which were always the same, except that mine were more detailed because I could remember them more clearly. We attended classes on character and psychology and its relation to health and disease and to anatomy and physiology, and lessons on human relations, particularly our own. Most of my earlier out of body excursions through the 80's & 90's were to attend classes, lessons and educations. Most were personal lessons but many were group educations where I am usually the only one conscious and others are dreaming or unconscious. Class numbers vary from a few to hundreds. Here is an example of a more recent class:   https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/human-relations-promiscuity
Most of my lessons have been one to one. Some that I think might be useful to others are described in the blog.

People who are truly in love, and understanding and forgiving of each other, and people who are mature, responsible, and understanding of the human condition and who are on top of their life's work, can astral travel together. One person must take the lead and the other/s attach to them, otherwise they separate.

When people are consciously out of body they communicate simply by looking at each other and by being in each other's presence. There is no effort to communicate, it just happens. This presents a barrier to conscious out of body excursion for most people. For when two people are consciously out of body together they can, at a glance, see deep into each other's souls and see every thought and desire each other has, including every distasteful, selfish, shameful, thought and desire, and the feelings that go with it; feelings of greed, cunning, hatefulness, taking advantage, etc, not just at that moment but every thought, desire and feeling they have every had. The person's entire character with all their secret traits is visible, and sensible to each other. There is nothing that can be hidden. The subconscious is extremely protective of itself. People's subconscious can sense this vulnerability that would occur when consciously out of body prior to it happening and so the subconscious (which is the sum-total of all our thoughts and feelings in storage) prevents conscious out of body excursions happening, especially with others. Some people think they would like to go out of body with another person but in reality their subconscious would not allow it, nor even allow the slightest likelihood of it happening. Most people hide most of themselves from others.

Of course there are ways to overcome this difficulty. It involves conditioning our self, so that there is understanding of human weaknesses, love regardless, not taking advantage of others, helpfulness, maturity, responsibility, trustfulness, and similar traits, so that two people can travel safely together.

When out of body, one can travel over cities and countries, and can scan and inspect people, individually and collectively, (see examples here:
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/the-current-world-conflict-part-4/ 

and here:  https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/a-meditation-group-2/   )  and to do this consciously and safely, one must be of a particular condition of character. One such condition is one must be harmless, and to be harmless one must be able to do harm and have proved one won't do it, for being weak and unable to do harm is not a virtue and is not trustworthy; sufficient sincerity and understanding are important requirements; and one must be committed to certain causes and have certain understandings, regarding truth, the human condition and freewill, individual growth and responsibility, and other matters which enable one to scan other's safely. Research and Service are the only two legitimate reasons for consciously leaving the body. All other reasons carry risk and may be detrimental. There are occasional exceptions due to accidents or chance. If you leave the body for mischief you will get into strife and regret. 

To give the reader an idea of what a person's subconscious can do. If you are out of body and you are not in acceptable condition and if you venture near someone whose subconscious does not want you near them, then their subconscious will hit you something like the shockwave that comes from standing too near a heavy naval gun when it fires. The shockwave will knock you back with such force that you will bounce back to your body and probably never leave your body again for many years if ever at all. The subconscious can sense if someone else is insincere or untrustworthy, even potentially so. And the role that the subconscious takes most seriously is its own defence. 

And there are other matters that make being consciously out of body difficult, whether with or without another person. The most significant is that one's own will and the purpose of the excursion must be in tune with the will of one's oversoul or master self, I mean that part of oneself that is within and above the conscience, and of which we are an extension on the plane of Earth, and which conscience is the voice of within our self. This is difficult to achieve for most people because they have their own freewill and are reluctant to cooperate with that will of which they are free, being the conscience. I mean the true conscience, not the feel-good one that is reflected in the emotions, like the sun in water, below us, upside down and not the real item. The real conscience is like a skylight at the inner upper pinnacle of our soul. One must also be reasonably on top of one's life duties, for the oversoul does not enable out of body excursions unless one is on top of one's life duties which are our true purpose and first priority. And one must be conscious most of the time while going about life, for if one is not conscious, then one cannot consciously leave the body. Most people go about with little if any conscious wakefulness, as if on auto pilot, only taking conscious control now and then. It is the development of deliberate conscious wakefulness that enables conscious leaving of body. So there is a lot for us as individuals to work on.