Don:

I've also read of the factor you speak of. I know that I've had spiritual experiences for which I can't remember everything after the experience is over.

If a person has an expanded experience without the usual limitations of the human mind/brain, and then relies on his body-based brain afterwards, it isn't surprising if he isn't able to retain everything.

When a person tries to recall what he experienced, his interpreter might get in the way to some degree.

There are occasions when I meditate and I experience bliss, a state of being that feels complete, and I feel as if I don't need anything else.  There is somewhat of a tendency to click out during such experiences. It is hard to say what happens during such click out periods. It seems as if my ability to remain self-conscious has improved. Perhaps through spiritual development we can build a bridge between our human mind and a higher level of being.

It could be that to some degree we aren't meant to know everything. Perhaps when the time is right we'll know more.

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 1:40am:


Don. Should we consider that the author of this NDE be a genuine NDE?...In my opinion I think not! So Lucifer/Satan, in his NDE are now residing in the second heaven!?? Only to descend to 'Hell' after the final judgement. According to him, hell is reserved for those who have not obtained permission from God to perform negative acts. Lucifer/Satan, and all his demons will be sent there after Gods final judgement according to him.

He also says that 97.5% of humanity will end up in the second heaven and hell eventually. Wow! Nice predictions from a former police officer and baptist minister.  GMan
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/christianity01.html       

Gman:

I didn't read the NDE account you provided, but going by what you said, it is too extreme to be considered valid. I believe it is posible that some people who want to push a fundamentalist ajenda would make up an NDE.  The end justifies the means bs.  There are also some Christian cult leaders who try to control their followers through fear.

"97.5% of people will end up in hell." What a bunch of stupid nonsense. Hopefully stupid enough that some people will let go of their fear long enough to question the source of such information, regardless of where it comes from.

Gman, you're welcome.

I'll try that Bruce. I've done so to some degree, but perhaps I should try harder.

There have been occasions when I was in a non-physical state having a conversation with a spirit being, I would think that this is cool, but then the experience would come to an end and I wouldn't remember what was discussed. During such experiences I remember my life in this World but I don't experience it.

When I receive spirit information while remaining aware of this World, I'm able to remember what is communicated. However, extended conversations with words don't take place. Only imagery and single sentences.

I also have nonphysical experiences where I am aware of the fact that I'm having a nonphysical experience and I remember my life in this World, I don't experience the physical World at such times, I'm able to remember what I experienced, but only one sentence at a time can be communicated, not discussions. Knowledge can be shared during such experiences.


Bruce Moen wrote on Feb 11^th, 2015 at 12:29am:

Don,

I have been rereading Heaven and Hell by Swedenborg, and found a pearl there that directly addresses your topic.  ES may be the best source to look for an explanation for the loss of knowledge, as here was a truly brilliant mind, who should have been able to recall and then recap the secrets he had learned.  He says that angelic communication is different than earthly communication with spoken language.  He says that their speech is full of wisdom because it proceeds from their interior thoughts, and their interior thought is wisdom, as their interior affection is love, and in their speech, their love and wisdom unite: 

"For this reason then, speech is so full of wisdom that they (angels) can express in a single word what man can not express in a thousand words; also the ideas of their thought include things that are beyond man's comprehension, and still more his power of expression.  This is why the things that have been heard and seen in heaven are said to be ineffable, and such as ear hath never heard, nor eye seen.  That this is true, I have also been permitted to learn by experience.  At times, I have entered into the state in which angels are, an in that state have talked with them, and I then understood everything.  But when I was brought back into my former state, and thus into the natural thought proper to man, and wished to recall what I had heard, I could not; for there were thousands of things unadapted to the ideas of natural thought, and therefore inexpressible except by variegations of heavenly light, and thus not at all by human words. "

Matthew

I suspect that the spiritual plane is an expanded realm of consciousness where we are still ourselves, but much more than human.  Multiple sources talk of their experiences with the instantaneous transfer of thought and knowledge, currently not possible in physical reality.

Swedenborg mentions some interesting distinctions among people (angels) in the spiritual plane.  Some, like our friends here, still operate on logical reasoning.  For them, the truths behind love of the good and love for others must be first brought into consciousness, but are not believed as truths.  He labels these folks in the "spiritual" kingdom.   He believes that they are on a different, perhaps less evolved level when compared to the people in the "celestial realm."  In the celestial way of thought, people love what is good, and what is true, because instantly, they acknowledge it as being so, without thought.  They do not debate what is good, and what is true, because they are infused with the light of this wisdom directly, and it is part of their nature.  There is therefore no need to debate, because for them (the celestial members) it is simply part of their nature. 

When one is raised with the light of reason and logic as the only true path toward enlightenment, then sometimes, I believe one shuts himself/herself off from the direct experience of "the knowing" of things, which is an entirely different mindset.  Indeed, I think that we are so used to physical reality, and the scientific method of inquiry, that many good, well intentioned people close themselves off to the direct experience of love and divine truth directly from the source. 

If people had NDEs, and somehow brought back wild verifications of uncanny predictions, or new theories of reality, it would be intriguing, and stimulate interest.  And yet, it does not in anyway address the issue of how to open yourself up to divine love, and give up on using proofs obtained in the dense constraints of physical reality in order to believe in something greater. 

Matthew

I have given this subject of recall from obe/nde much study over the years. I cannot prove to others what I have learnt about it, but I can tell some of it and leave it to others to consider.

Deficient recall is caused by many factors, fear being a significant one worth mentioning. Most of the fear is unconscious and of things we may be barely aware of. It is of the type of fear we have of certain truths, success, greater learning and responsibility beyond what we think we could manage, disappointment, failure, etc, for on a deep soul level we know truth but have not consciously realised it. But we "sense" it and sense the changes it would require in us. Those changes are immense. Our soul easily shies from them.

By targeting fear, becoming familiar with it, its types, and how it works, and practicing self analysis, very deeply, we can condition our self for obe's and better recall of them.

Also by targeting the concept of truth, being how things are, existence, what is, and steadily conditioning our self to face it and accept it, whatever truth may be. This will condition us too. It is not as easy as might be first thought, and requires continual work.

Another cause of poor recall is not in the condition of the soul or the person, but in the imperfection of brain matter to connect well with the silver cord. The fault is in the brain matter, not in the cord. I understand this problem will be rectified in future by medical science as a by product of rectifying other issues with a future type of genetic engineering. Many physical and psychological ailments and deficiencies are caused by this poor connection.

Most of the other contributors to poor recall are related to the condition of the consciousness and mind. As with any activity, we must be conditioned. There is technique, there is practice of technique, and there is conditioning. Conditioning of consciousness and mind is another big subject. Practicing virtues and comprehension is the basis, but it is too wide a field to cover here. I have covered some of it on my blog under the subject of arrangement of knowledge to coincide with reality.

Also, much depends which centre we externalise from. Consciousness can externalise through either of the two head centres or the solar plexus centre, and there are pathways for doing each. (We can externalise through the other centres too, but these three are the most common ones.) Each centre allows a different type of externalised consciousness. Out through the crown centre allows a vibrant "here and now" fully intelligent consciousness that is the clearest we have. When we externalise via the crown we are on the cord between the body and the oversoul/masterself/disk, and this is why the consciousness is greatest when externalising through the crown. We have two cords then, one to the body and one to the oversoul, but they are the same cord going through our consciousness. Out through the front head centre allows a consciousness similar to our usual daily consciousness with some reasoning abilities but diminished in some respects due to its conscience being residual and not active, due to the brain being on the cord between the externalised consciousness and the oversoul/masterself/disk. (Monroe's method) We no longer have an active crown centre when we go out through the front or back of the head. The solar plexus is the centre we go out through during sleep and the best externalised consciousness it allows is awareness and recall, but no reasoning, decision making ability or conscience. Activity when externalised through the solar plexus is automated according to the personality's condition without intellect, choice or conscience. The awareness and recall can be conditioned to be clear and accurate through certain conditioning training like touched upon above. Any directing of consciousness externalised through solar plexus must be preprogramed before externalising. Externalising through this centre has the cord running from oversoul into the vacated body's crown centre then out of solar plexus to us. That is why the externalised consciousness does not possess any functions that result from and require our contact with the upper part of the cord, for we are on the lower cord from the body while the upper cord is on the other side of the body going to the oversoul so the oversoul can recharge and repair the body while we are dismantled during sleep. Each type of externalisation requires its own method and conditioning, and a person has a particular inclination towards one or the other, or circumstances may cause one or the other. Except through solar plexus which is natural sleep, but can be enhanced by conditioning and preprograming. Each one has its own capacities or comprehension and remembrance. Understanding them can enable one to condition them and make the most of them. The heart too can be used. We can also go out through the base centre which causes complete blackness and loss of sense of time, so the person comes back thinking it is only a moment later, like from a GA.   

cb            

Yes, correspondence is most helpful. 

We live in a fractal existence/creation, where all things are replications in form, quality and function of things above and below, and within and without of themselves, to the extent that dimensions and the nature of the matter in dimensions enables.

This means all things and all energies, the elements of nature, and chemistry, trees, animals, shapes, numbers and mathematics, sound, accord and discord, light and colour, the human body and its organs and functions, the soul/consciousness, laws of physics, thought, emotion, senses, electricity, fire, temperature, planets, solar systems and galaxies, gravity, even man made things like electrical circuits, mechanics, buildings, ... all and everything, is replicated above and below, within and without.

The things we see and hear around us are only cross sections of their greater unseen parts, only tips and parts, little copies, joints, shells, imprints in this world, shadows, echoes. projections, repercussions, representative, of greater things beyond our normal senses.

This Law of Correspondence is how symbols, analogies and parables work. This is why there will come a time when symbolism is recognised as being as much a universal language as music and mathematics, and as much a science as physics. At present we have little or no realisation of the existence of the science of symbolism; we are like the Australian Aborigine prior to white settlement with no realisation of the existence of mathematics and of what mathematics can enable. As the Aborigine could only count one, two, many and many-many, so too, we are as primitive in our understanding and use of symbols. The science of symbolism and all that it will enable, is hopefully ahead of us. 

When we get our head around this fact, this Law of Correspondence, and can look at things in this way, then our consciousness and mind stretches and expands to take it in, and with it our mental senses or faculties, and with those - dependent on other factors variable within our makeup pertaining mostly to activity of crown and heart - our physical senses can then follow. Certainly the faculties of consciousness follow when we are out of body via crown centre unlimited by the brain and physical senses.

With practice and seeing this expansion much of the time, we learn to "slide" our consciousness up and down the length of things beyond the little part of them that we can see in this world, so as to take in the greater picture behind the scenes, and the faculties and senses can follow. The human eye can do more than is so far realised. 

This is how symbols stretch and prime the mind in readiness to receive comprehensions of greater things of which the symbols/analogies are little copies and representatives. For everything is a symbol of something greater, and is attached to it in some way.

Comprehending correspondence stretches consciousness and mind immensely, and of course assists recall and ability to communicate the experience. When Correspondence is grasped to a certain point it causes the consciousness, mind and faculties to expand to in a way unimaginable before hand. That happened to me. All the layers/curtains between the dimensions on which things exist like pictures became transparent and everything became flat in comparison to the next plane, so that the scene behind is visible, and the next layer and the next and so on. It has happened to me many times now, sometimes in prayer and particular breathing method, sometimes just sitting or when walking along, each time revealing more of the immeasurable depths and layers of things behind the scenes. And always is a great shake up for me, needing several weeks to readjust to the new understandings. The memories are sort of left like faint images that permeate reality as we see it causing a feeling that it is still there or just out of reach. And each time with less effort I can bring it back, though I rarely do because the change and shock of it all is quite an upheaval. I know it is there and I leave it alone except if in prayer I sense a prompt to look. I have enough to focus on in this world.      

Regarding angels and their sense of time. The angels are conscious forces that drive existence. They are the very matter of existence in many forms and they are like the engine and fuel of existence. but they are conscious too. and can become to appear like any form of life. and they do not change in their consciousness, in themselves or soul, they just keep doing their work as created to do. They are the same consciously now as when created. Unlike us who have freewill and thereby learn and change within our selves. We have gone where angels do not tread, into ignorance, freewill and individual change and conscious learning. Bear in mind that in this sense, occultly speaking, time is not a dimension because it is not two directional but one directional. (The physics sense is different of course, but both are correct from and compatible.) In this sense, Time is the medium of change, and is the rate of change of matter/energy/consciousness pertaining to any dimension. Change is outside and objective to the angels. Angels observe change but do not experience it. Therefore they do not have a subjective sense of time like we do.

Even the little ones like the overseers of forests, lakes and rivers, they can remember several hundred years ago or thousands of years ago like it was yesterday, and to them it feels like yesterday or even today, but at the same time they have observed the changes on the land and amongst humans over the centuries, but its all the same time to them because their consciousness has no freewill from God and does not grow and change like ours. I have met many of these creatures and had discussions with several of them about many subjects.      
      

crossbow

Crossbow:

It is interesting that you have met angels. I can't say that I've done so while knowing I was doing so. When it comes to guidance I usually don't receive the name of who I am dealing with. When I have received a  name I've received either God, Christ, Jesus or Higher Self.

During some OBEs I could sense the presence of a guide but I wouldn't see this guide. There have been occasions when a guide would present a human image while trying to make a point, but this image would just be a very temporary projection. There have been occasions when Jesus presented his image.

My memory of this is faint, but one time I think I received the name Michael.

Perhaps I should try to find out about angels. Going by what I read at your site, there are things you have tried to figure out that I haven't tried to figure out.  I'm weary of reading about some of the things you found (e.g; how universes and time are structured), because I would rather find out for myself. I have avoided reading Tom Campbell in depth for the same reason.

Bets. I know you think for your self, are strong and independent and have your own faith, and that you do not blindly believe me, so I will answer your question. The overseers I referred to are the overseeing nature spirits of areas and regions. I don't mean the smaller fairies, but those in charge of regions and who can communicate with us. They live within and are part of /branch of the angelic/elemental streams. They are purer in a sense because they obey the part of themselves/stream/oversoul that is above them; we have freewill from it. Plus they have programed purpose right from the top down through all their descending layers/ranks, in each respective stream. They are different species to us. The word purer applies to them and us differently. Yes we are sullied from freewilled living, but from that we consciously grow and learn by our selves, not knowing things by role and programming like they do. The prodigal son and his brother are a comparison of us and angels.

Dogs are different again. They have an oversoul from which they have no freewill, no difference between their programed role and their active self. They, cats, horses and other animals each have a respective role and job to do that I might explain one day. No you won't become more pure as a dog, and I doubt you will want to come back as one after you see their role and what many of them have to put up with. Purity for us is the opening and brightening of conscience/crown centre, and aligning the personality with it, meaning all our inclinations of thought, behaviour and heart, so there is continuous outflow of oversoul energy with no discord; clear flow from the inner upper pinnacle of our being down through our layers to all our outward expressions. It is a forever process, and hard work. 

Albert. Personally I am not into spirit guides and I don't encourage people to seek them out. I don't seek guidance from angels; they have their work, I have my freedom, though I have had many discussions with them and lessons from different ones about nature and the elements, their role and service to man. The nature woman was my first introduction to them. https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/the-nature-woman
Though she may seem unfriendly, her type just don't suffer fools easily. They are capable of inflicting hurt if provoked by emotional humans. There are others types that are humorous and enjoy light, clever and ironic dialogue with genuine human enquirers. And there are the huge ones that are the forces/elements themselves but are still approachable and will converse and educate humans. And even ones that have been gods in the past but who now play a different role, like Pan. I have met many of them. But I am digressing again. Back to business. We have a conscience. If someone, no matter who they are, tells you something is right but your conscience says it is wrong, then you will believe your conscience. When we do wrong, conscience lets us know. We don't need spirit guides to tell us we are wrong. In the end it is conscience we listen to, so why not listen to it in the beginning too. Conscience is our best guide and worst punisher. Conscience is God-within. Faith in oneself is a powerful and liberating thing. But having said that, I understand that many people have spirit guides like dead Indian gurus, aunty Mable or grandma Ethel, or a red Indian warrior who now smokes um astral peace pipe, or more commonly recently is unspecified spirit guides. The escort I refer to in the blog is not a guide. He is an associate. Just like associates in ordinary life. I only have contact with him because I go up through and above my own soul first. His kind don't come lower than above the pinnacle of the human soul. And I don't need him or turn to him for anything before going vertically within and up through my own soul. I never call on him or set out to contact him for anything. I prefer to function alone. If he shows up, so be it. No true guide encourages people to look away from their own soul for guidance, nor do true guides answer when called upon without us going first up through our own soul or through prayer to God, so those who would truly assist us are only contactable through faith in soul and God. The other influences that communicate to the mind from without toward the sides, laterally and horizontally - at any level - are not even as high as our own pinnacle, they are no smarter than our self. However, many people have no faith in God, no faith in their own conscience, and so conscience must project its message onto a mental image of whatever the individual creates and accepts, like a spirit guide. But the conscience reflects itself in the mental body, emotional body, and physical body, and its reflections easily confused for the real thing, but they are false and misleading consciences that only advocate for the wants and "feel goods" and "seem goods" of the respective body they reflect off. And that risk is difficult enough to avoid without deliberately creating reflections.   

Our Higher Self (from which we extend and which communicates to us through our conscience), and God the all pervasive inclusive ever extensive Absolute, and Christ the love of God for his creation which communicates with us through our heart, are each and all our best guides. I say each and all because although they seem separate things we eventually come to realise they are all one and the same.

It is a good thing that you feel wary of reading my and other's descriptions. Notice the spirals of time account occurred during a period when I too was reading nothing and developing my own faith. I say to anyone, don't read them if you feel that way. Develop faith in yourself. Whoever reads my accounts do not believe them naively. Be reasonable, ponder, think, compare, weigh, keep it outside of yourself until you know it for yourself. If a person is inclined to believe my accounts naively without knowing them to be true then I say don't read them, go back to your own soul, your conscience, your reason, your home religion, the law of your land, your highest social standards, customs and manners, all these things offer the best guidance for you.

Those accounts are in the blog only because I have come to realise they add substance to the other information of how it is done or because the account is a lesson about a particular subject. and to show the progress of types of out-of-body excursions in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. Several more accounts will probably go in for the same reasons. How leaving the body is done is the most important thing to emphasise. There is enough accounts in books and on internet, but not enough descriptions of techniques and mechanics, which is what I intend to cover, so others can do it too. So more instruction will come.  

Also the putting up the accounts plus showing that my character is fairly ordinary is important, so that other ordinary people know they can do it too. I am not special, or particularly good. I struggle with myself like we all do. In fact I am quite an unpleasant man in many ways and I don't hide that too much because I'd rather be thought ill of than too well of. Its easier to live with. I have done most wrong and rotten things there is to do. And I am certainly not what society's cultural elite say is a good, spiritual or enlightened man; as we know, I think that socialism and feminism are mental derangements and have nothing to do with virtue. I believe in truth, individual freedom, fairness, individual accountability, consideration for others, love and forgiveness, charity and providing relief, whatever sort of relief is needed. And I think the worst crime is to hold back forgiveness when someone asks for it, or when someone genuinely apologises. We all make mistakes, get things wrong, do wrong. In all creation there is no greater burden than the burden of freewill. And who amongst us has learnt to wield our freewill wisely? So we should understand and forgive each other.
                      
      

Crossbow:

When you share many words on your site and elsewhere, don't you in some way play the role of guide?

Here is an example of how my spirit guidance has helped me.

I used be afraid of unfriendly spirits. Some form of guidance, perhaps my higher self, helped me have a number of OBEs where I dealt with imaginary unfriendly beings. Such experiences helped me overcome my fear of unfriendly beings.  It seemed quite clear to me that positive guidance created these experiences in order to make the point that I don't need to be afraid. Afterall, I have free will, and if I choose love and light, no dark being can stop me from doing so.

You wrote about how you were forced to experience the life of a criminal. That criminal ended up being your own self including past lives. With this experience it seems to me that some form of guidance helped you overcome judgement of those who do wrong. Do you feel grattitude towards such guidance?

I understand that we need to know how to stand on our own two feet, but that doesn't mean we are beyond receiving help from others.  What if Jesus wanted to offer you a word of advice? Would you consider it or would you be too much into being some sort of super independent spiritual warrior who doesn't need anybody's help, not even the magnificient help of Jesus?

I believe one needs to find a balance where one is independent, yet one can feel humility and grattitude towards those who are helpful. There are times when a being who helped me identified himself as either Jesus or Christ. Partly because I was open to receiving help from him. I don't believe this being was a huxster because the advice (or perspective) seemed right to my consciensce, it would lead to positive results, and because I would feel love and peace when in contact with this being. Whoever this being is, very probably Jesus, I thank him publically for his help. I consider my self quite wise, but I am not beyond receiving help from one who is even wiser. When it comes to my higher self/oversoul, which helps me some of the time, perhaps it isn't as spiritually developed as Jesus.

There could be other Christ consciousness level beings that could provide people with help.

Plus, from an Oversoul/Higher Self perspective, I believe I owe some thanks to the incarnations before me. Their hard work played a role in enableling me to be the type of person I am during this incarnation.

Crossbow, thank you for sharing what you shared at your site. I found some of it helpful. I am willing to learn from you as is appropiate to the growth of my Soul.

P.S. Would you choose to not read the Bible because there are some misleading books? Of course not. I figure that the same applies to spirits. Just because misleading spirits exist, this doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to any spirits.  Whether reading a book, listening to a person, or listening to a spirit, we always have to use our discrimination. If we allow misleading spirits to fear us away from  learning from love-based spirits, perhaps to some degree the misleading spirits win.

When it comes to individuals attunement to guidance, real guidance is wise and usually only makes one aware of what is helpful to that person in their growth process, plus there is the matter of freewill.  If a person doesn't want to be aware of something, often guidance will not force the issue. 

   Earth and humanity is an area of consciousness that is strongly based in fear.  Consciously and unconsciously, many individuals, most individuals have more fear than they often realize. 

   Guidance will not generally show them aspects of the larger reality that involve things that could increase their overall fear.   Not till they have regenerated a lot of that fear, and/or they specifically ask to be shown what's true with a particular concept, idea, belief, etc. 

  At the same time, guidance will disseminate information through individuals they know will talk openly and publicly about their experiences and perceptions with the larger reality, because this is a way to plant seeds more indirectly in a more collective sense.  Most individuals will not be as affected by this as by direct guidance from their own guidance system.  We selectively hear/receive truth when listening to fellow humans. 

  That some more verified and higher quality sources, like Bob Monroe's longtime explorer, Rosalind McKnight, did get guidance and talk about worrisome issues and beings, would give those more logical and open, some pause for thought to possibly think that Reality is possibly, most likely probably, much bigger than they currently conceive and that lack of experience or guidance with something does not negate it's existence.