Well now. It seems that "Heaven and meeting Jesus and the angels" is a sure money earner for the christian propaganda zealots. One such person today has come clean that his NDE afterlife yarn about going to heaven and meeting Jesus was nothing but a frabrication! Am I surprised? Heck No! Now the christian publishers and bookshops are pulling his book from the shelves. This book was written by Alex and his father, who I might add was divorced from his wife, Alex's mother, since the book was published. Alex's mother has always raised grave doubts and concerns about the books authenticity. Here's a couple of links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Came_Back_from_Heaven

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/01/16/boy-who-inspired-book-says-he-lied/2113076...
 
I wonder if the other two christian persons mentioned in the second aol link and article will come clean also, especially Colton and his pastor-father, plus that female fundamentalist christian ghost writer they hired to help them write this book, "Heaven is for real". Thank God for Bruce Moen, Robert Bruce, and Willian Buhlman for keeping me on the straight and narrow about the afterlife. Not forgetting the late Robert Monroe. Gman 

1796-

**I believe Bruce's method is the best the Earthly mind can do. But I believe the soul, the heart and higher mind together can perform a further method. One in which the natures of truth and consciousness combine. A method that requires no seeking out of correlations or material validation, for it immediately realises and incorporates all things into it. Interestingly, and ironically considering the subject matter of your post, this method to which I refer is there for the study throughout and overall in the Christian gospels.**

Your post reminds me of something a person posted years ago.  His point was that Jesus lived 2,000 years ago and so much more has been learned about the afterlife via "new age" research that there really was no point in studying the Bible.  In his mind it was pretty much irrelevant.

Thanks for helping to right the ship.  It's been listing pretty badly these days.

R

People have little depth of vision, they are dazzled by surface details, and bewitched by their own emotions and preferences.

Most people can’t see truth when it’s right in front of them. They only see what they want to see and like to see, or what the crowd around them sees, and what is fashionable to see. Few can see further or deeper than that. They don't even want to, because no more matters to them than that.

Recoverer Quote:

hmm...

During the 1950’s, ‘60’s and ‘70’s Rampa wrote 18 books about leaving the body and related subjects.

In 1971, ‘85, and ‘94, Robert Monroe published three books about leaving the body, which carry much of the same information as Rampa's books.

1. Rampa described the earth as being a school of rapid learning in which the fact of the soul’s immortality is obscured by the illusion of death and temporary living and how one has to overcome the subsequent illusory values and priorities that occur as a result of this illusion, such as the need for survival and a gamut of resulting associate emotions.
Monroe described the earth as being a school of condensed learning in a predatory world of apparent but false mortality.

2. Rampa said the brain is like a radio receiver/transmitter for the mind/consciousness.
Monroe taught the same.

3. Rampa said consciousness can tune itself to different frequencies and phase in and out of different planes, he said that consciousness is like a radio tuner.
Monroe said the same, that consciousness can tune itself, can phase in and out of different rings and levels.

4. Rampa provided detailed instructions on how to leave the body. 
As did Monroe. And both their instructions are much the same.

5. Rampa detailed how non-verbal / telepathic communication takes place while out of body.
As did Monroe.

6. Rampa explained how to travel from one place to another while out of the body, how to mentally identify a person or location and how to get there.
As did Monroe explain such use of idents.

7.  Rampa explained how to travel in tandem with another traveler/s, with one identifying the location and the other/s hooking on to the leader.
Monroe described the same hook on and follow method.

8. Rampa described astral travel across space to other planets. 
As did Monroe.

9. Rampa described how we have a total self, comprised of an oversoul from which we extend, and how there are other selves extending from that oversoul.
Monroe described the same, with his description of the I-There groups and their extended selves.

10. Rampa said he knew well one of the other selves/extensions of his oversoul, and described the other person and their relationship.
Monroe said he had the name and location of one of his other selves.

11. Rampa described how from deep inter-dimensional space came gardeners of the earth and their agents who cultivated life on earth, starting with initial crops of primitive life, followed by successive crops of more advanced life until introducing humans, then continuing to farm and refine the earth garden through the ages.
Monroe also described gardeners of the earth, and their agents/collectors, their planting of sequential life crops and continued refining of the earth garden through the ages.

12. Rampa said when he died he would be going to another planet along with the other extension of his oversoul.
Monroe forecast his eventual departure/wink out with his I-There group.


There are many more examples of Monroe’s writings being similar or near identical to Rampa’s, too many for me to go on listing…but maybe just one more because it’s amusing.

Rampa said that when out of his body he could see his pet cats when out of their bodies. Monroe said the same. And Rampa said he was visited by his pet cats who had previously died….again Monroe said the same.

                                          _________________________________


As Monroe wrote his books after Rampa did, and wrote much the same content as Rampa did, how can you say that Rampa was fake and Monroe was not?

Did Rampa the fake just happen to fluke the truth before truthful Monroe came along and wrote it down again?

Perhaps Rampa was true, and Monroe read his books and copied him?

Or if Rampa was fake, perhaps Monroe was fake too. And if Monroe was fake, perhaps Moen is fake.  Who is to say? Yet so many Monroe/Moen enthusiasts believe Monroe and Moen while saying Rampa is fake.

And there are so many other authors who have written the same as these, mostly each from their own angle, each with their own slant, or pitched to a particular reader. But still the same information. 

Yet grown adults, like group conscious teenagers, read and believe one author, while disbelieving another who says the same, because that is the fashion to do, or because their minds are so fickle and shallow they cannot see past the presentation to the substance underneath. 

Or maybe both Ramps and Monroe are true, perhaps their saying the same adds credibility to each other? and perhaps its their partisan readers who are one eyed and short sighted? And unable to see the truth within the words.   

Recoverer Quote:

That is the beauty of parable and allegory; it enables truth to slip by the censors.

Truth can stand as bold as brass and many people can't see it, but sometimes truth is so important that it must be disguised. And that is not too hard to do for those who know truth. For we live in an allegorical or fractal existence, where everything is replicated in similar form and function, in dimensions above and below itself, in accordance with the nature of each dimension. The anatomy and function of the bodies and organs of man, animal, plant and mineral, the elements of nature, the heavenly bodies, music, mathematics, symbols, all things have their replications above and below, and all stream forth and branch out from the one source. This is the great tree of life that comes from Eden. For those who can see this fractal existence it is easy to talk in parables and allegory and get truth past those who cannot see it, who despise it and would censor it, to those who can see it and who appreciate it and wish to live by it.

Isn't truth wonderful. Its all around us and within us. Truth is how things are. And if we value truth above all else, if we crave the truth, no matter what the truth may be, then we will come to see things as they are, and we will come to know the truth.

But if we hold any value more important than truth, then that is all we will know. 

Quote:

Yes.




ps. And perhaps I'm fake.

yeah I've read plenty of articles too about certain people being fakes or true or something else, and hear things said about others, neighbours and in the workplace; little of it is credible or useful, its mostly gossip. Mindless and malicious gossip is probably the most destructive behaviour humans get up to. Its the first manifestation of most greater troubles. Even wars often start with gossip. Students of truth might hear it but we treat it with little significance and don't let it get past us. And we don't adopt needless opinions about another just because some else says it. We might consider it, but we observe for our self.

I only listed some Monroe/Rampa comparisons to demonstrate how people in the so-called spiritual community often get trapped in superficial thinking and collective gossip driven opinions. There is little difference between the out-of-body tuition of those two authors, the difference is in their supportive presentation, yet Monroe readers frequently refer to Rampa as fake. Maybe he was or wasn't, but they wouldn't know either way.

Have you ever been in a class with people who complain the teacher is no good, but what they really don't like is the teacher's personality, clothes, or some other irrelevant matter beside the subject of education. Then they say they like another teacher but its really that he just strokes their egos or makes them laugh or because she is "nice". They pay good time and money for education, then forget most of it but remember forever how much they liked or disliked the personality of the teacher and whether the teacher liked them, because that is mostly what such superficial people focus on. Sure there are fake teachers and fake authors, but there are fake students too.

If we are committed and disciplined students of truth, there are basic questions we need to attend to. What is sincerity? what is genuine? What is truth? How do we recognise it? How do we become one with it? Also, what is not truth? what is falsity? what is fantasy? And how do we recognise it and keep it outside of our self? or at least minimise its inclusion. These questions have foundational answers upon which we build the rest of our progress. But few can answer them, and yet over no foundation claim progress. They are houses built on sand not rock.   

Correlation is a good start and exercise, but it is not a final answer, as seen by the Monroe/Rampa correlations. Even crooks corroborate their stories, so we need more than that. And evidence too is still not proof, it is only suggestive, even if highly so, it can still be wrong.    

Experience, knowledge, proof, are interchangeable terms. They are the same thing from different reference points. But our own experience counts for less, little or nothing if we cannot differentiate between what we experienced and the opinions or thoughts that we formed during or from that experience. This might seem at first to be an easy distinction, but its not. For instance, what a person said and what you hear them say are in different places, and potentially different things. Likewise even in our head our thoughts and our self are in different places, different things. Verbal, visual and other thoughts are around our self, not in our self. The self makes the thoughts, and the thoughts if we are not careful and don't distinguish thought from self, will fool the self into believing it is thought. The same with feelings and emotions, all likes and dislikes, and preferences. And then what we think is our experience of something counts for little, for we have polluted our self with all sorts of false identifications that have their own convictions. We need to condense our self down. Know our true core self before we can know what is pure experience and what is conjecture, for actual experience is only in the core self. And so is knowledge. And proof.  

We need fakery in the world; it helps motivate us towards truth. And when we learn to see truth, we can see much more fakery. And we see that the two work together in a fascinating way.   

Yes, naturally. The first ability of our awareness is the ability to discriminate between one thing and another. It is the ability to discern and evaluate differences and is the basis of our intelligence. We must exercise it, as precisely as we can, in all matters, so as to sharpen our thinking. 

Unfortunately discrimination is treated as a dirty word by manipulators in psych, couns, social science edu, many of whom know it is the basis of intelligence and clear thinking but reserve it for themselves while discouraging others from exercising and developing it. They do so by cultivating fuzzy thinking in others - encouraging kids to use thesaurus for a dictionary, neglecting gramma, disparaging IQ discrimination/generalisation tests, encouraging emotional focus and following feelings while remaining mentally focused themselves - because mentally focused people easily manipulate emotionally focused people, and that's what their encouraging of emotion focus and fuzzy thinking is really about, especially encouraging it in boys and men. Training people to be sheep under the guise of teamwork. ..... Few are aware of how manipulative and destructive those bastards are, but I am because I'm one of those bastards, undercover I mean. But unlike them I don't want to dumb others down to keep myself above them on a phony pedestal. So I have made it a little projects to wake people up to their own self and to the tactics of manipulators so they are aware of themselves and of what's going on around them and less likely to get fooled.

Gman cobber, if you really don't like fakers, well its not just the fakes in religious-spiritual fields, its also the career manipulators in psycho-social-educational fields. They do plenty cheeky mischief. The bulk of them are fooled too though. Its the awake mentally sharp ones who are the scallywags. Wake the fooled ones up, and those near the edge. Most of the sharp ones are already settled on their path.   

So how do we distinguish those who are true from those who are fake?

One way is to try to sense if the Source has integrity and a service oriented attitude.

1796 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 12:03am:

There are some sources that present themselves in a way where it almost seems certain that they have integrity and a service to others attitude.

The extent to which this can be faked is hard to quantify, but it is generally hard to do in a really thorough way.

Another factor, if a Source speaks of service, is this Source in some way the recipient?