BillB
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You say...."Monroe's "percepts" seem to have been about the cleanest and most filter-free without religious ideas getting in the way, so building a belief system based on what he described experiencing does not seem to be all that bad of starting point…. Though some things he talked about, I do wonder if he really had the full picture". --------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course he didn’t have the full picture. No one does. And even then you are referring to a picture that is completely subjective, and "that" not even perceived through the known physical senses.
“…the cleanest and most filter-free….ideas” you say. How does one know that, and compared to what? Some religion? Which religion? Compared to exactly which religious ideas are you referring to? Or is it compared to some common themes of some philosophical era, the Pre-Socratic Philosophers perhaps? Is it compared with some philosophical discipline, Ontology or Epistemology? Clearly not.
One should remove belief systems that are blocking some astral projection? One by one eliminating every construct in the way of conscious perception beyond the physical? Then you are reduced to the completely subjective perception via imagination in a realm that one really doesn’t know anything much about the true nature of the entities encountered. Now what reference frame does one really have? Maybe it’s legitimate if it is written in somebody else’s book, or in some discussion forum on the Internet? Is that how one should determine what is illusion or deception and what isn't?
Here is an interesting definition of “spirituality”: “Spirituality is the aspect of humanity that refers to the way individuals seek and express meaning and purpose, and the way they experience their connectedness to the moment, to self, to others, to nature and to the significant or the sacred".
"Religions" are only the organized structure and belief statements of whatever group is representing their spirituality. People that like that particular system join. Are they indoctrinated? Sure.
However, doesn’t culture itself indoctrinate? Isn’t education itself indoctrination? Do you think scientists aren’t indoctrinated? Or how about marketing, isn’t that indoctrination? How about when a bunch of kids in grade school decide they have to wear the same clothes as the cool kids? Did your parents indoctrinate you? Isn’t all of that cultural indoctrination?
What are the elements of religions? A founding leader, disciples, a creed, statement of beliefs, probably constructing some building to meet in. Taking their beliefs to the field to spread the ideas; then organizing small groups with the same belief system.
In what why is Monroeism any different? Is there a founding leader? Did that leader write founding literature which the followers study and think that literature embodies truth. “I am more than my physical body”. Is that not a creed? The affirmation, is that not a prayer? Are there disciples founding local community group bringing the message of their system to others? Then, is Monroeism not a religion? Is it not a religion of esoteric knowledge? Perhaps it is only "not" a religion to individuals that wish to exclude the word religion when it pertains to them.
And if Monroeism is a religion, in the most general sense, so what? What difference does that really make? These words are simply more boxes people use to categorize thinking, and bias, and prejudice. Ya know, all religions don’t necessarily specify a particular god as per list below.
One feature some religions do have are followers that are trying to escape their daily reality. “If only the Rapture would come take me away..”. How about cult mass suicides? Or, are people that seek astral projection seeking truth or an escape from their depressing lives?
Here’s a list of popular world religions with their founding leaders. Do you really think something that has taken place in the last 40 years of so is really so different from that which man has been doing the thousands of years?
{I’ve removed many Christian ones since they are basically just a Christian sect that has separated from the group. Oops, Confucianism should be in there too.}
The bottom line is there are religions everywhere, in all forms. There is indoctrination of all sorts from every corner of culture. Call it conditioning. The question is, what are you trying to achieve and why? Then, how would you know that you actually are doing that?
Here’s something to reflect on:
Actually Idries Shah provides a “good starting point” when he says”, We are all interested in spirituality, psychological, and social questions, and particularly in our personal problems, but in order to understand how we should learn, what we must know, we must have information…. The first important principle which we must understand is that there are two pre-eminent concepts; one is inclusion and the other is exclusion…. what we include in our studies, and what we exclude from our studies. Of course Shah speaks from a Sufi tradition. Maybe we should exclude anything he says...
Ya know, I had a great system of beliefs too that I personally deciphered, back in the 70s when I did more than my share of acid.
2,085 BC. Judaism-Abraham – was he the founder? Nah, he didn’t institutionalize anything in that he didn’t acquire students.
1,500 BC. Hinduism- no specific founder
1000 BC Zoroastrianism - Zoroastrianism founded by Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) in Persia
560 BC. Buddhism- Gautama Buddha
550 BC. Taoism - Lao Tzu
599 BC. Jainism, Mahavira
30 AD. Christianity –Jesus Christ
50-100 AD. Gnosticism-
150-250 AD. -Modalism (Monarchianism)–Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Paul of Samosata
325 AD. -After being persecuted for almost 200 years Constantine made the Church becomes a legal religion.
590 AD.-Roman Catholicism- Developed after Constantine; Pope Gregory?
610 AD.- Islam- Mohammed
1400 AD.- Rosicrucians-Christian Rosenkreuz (1694 US) Rosicrucians- Master Kelpius, Johann Andrea
1515 AD.- Protestantism- (Reformers) Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin
1650 AD.- Tibetan Buddhism-Dalai Lama…. But really a continuation.
1700 AD.- Freemasony- Albert Mackey, Albert Pike
1760 AD.-Swedenborgism- Emmanuel Swedenborg
1784 AD.- Shakers - Mother Ann Lee
1830 AD.- Mormonism – Joseph Smith
1830 AD.-Cambellites-Alexander & Thomas Cambell, Barton Stone
1838 AD.-Tenrikyo- Miki Maegawa Nakayama
1844 AD.-Christadelphians- John Thomas
1844 AD.-Bahai- Baha'u'llah (Abul Baha)
1845-1870AD.- 7th Day Adventists-E.G. White
1848 AD.-Spiritualism - Kate and Margaret Fox
1875 AD.-Theosophical Society- H.P. Blavatsky, Henry Olcott
1879 AD.-Christian Science-Mary Baker Eddy
1889-1924 AD.-Unity School of Christianity- Myrtle Fillmore
1900 AD.-Rosicrucian Fellowship-Max Heindel
1902 AD.- Anthroposophical Society –Rudolf Steiner
1914 AD.- Iglesia ni Cristo- Felix Manalo
1927 AD.- Mind Science- Ernest Holmes
1935 AD.-Self Realization Fellowship- Paramahansa Yogananda
1948 AD.- Latter Rain –Franklin Hall, George Warnock.
1964 AD.- Eckankar The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (Eck). Founded by Paul Twitchell
1968 AD.- Hare Krishna (US)- Swami Prabhupada
1968 AD.- Children of God- David (Moses) Berg
1944 AD.- Silva Mind Control –Jose Silva
1950 AD.-Urantia Book- Dr. Bill Sadler
1950 AD.-Lafayette Ronald Hubbard published his book Dianetics-SCIENTOLOGY
1954 AD.-Atherius Society (UFO’s)- Dr. George King
1954 AD.- Unification Church- Rev.Sun Myung Moon
1955 AD.- Scientology- L. Ron Hubbard
1958 AD.- Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research- Henry Kinley
1958-1970 AD.- Church Universal and Triumphant –Mark and E.C. Prophet
1958 AD. -Henry Kinley begins (IDMR) the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research
1960 AD.-Transcendental meditation- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
1960 AD.-Enkankar- Paul Twitchell
1966 AD.- Church of Satan –Anton LaVey
1970 AD.- Divine light Mission- Guru Maharaj Ji
1973 AD.- CARP was established in the United States. [The Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles] to introduce the teachings of un Myung Moon.
1980 -1982 AD.- Tara Center-Benjamen Crème
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