Conversation Board - My meditation this morning

recoverer

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My meditation this morning
Mar 19^th, 2014 at 7:33pm

I decided to share some of my morning meditation because I believe some of it relates to some of our recent conversations.

During my meditation I experienced myself as consciousness, divine love and peace. Either my spirit guidance or higher self (I don’t know which) showed me imagery of various things, some of it was about negative occurrences.

I don’t remember the specific details, this is irrelevant, because the point of the negative imagery was to show me that regardless of what I perceive, my consciousness, love and peace don’t get effected. I’ve noticed this during other meditations. During such meditations my guidance showed me various types of imagery so I would notice that who I am at spirit level can’t be harmed. I can get involved with a state-of-mind that feels unpleasant, yet my Consciousness can’t get harmed. We can get caught up in negative states of mind for however long, but this won’t directly affect the consciousness aspect of our being.

On this occasion and other occasions I have found that it doesn’t matter if my mind is active, I can still experience love, peace and the beingness of my consciousness. I do this by tuning into love. When you connect to love, mind activity and perceptions don’t have a negative effect.

I believe it is contradictory that some people say that you aren’t your mind yet you have to stop your thought in order to experience a higher level of being. If you aren’t your mind, why do you have to stop whatever mind is? And if you tried to stop it, wouldn’t you have to use a part of your mind to do so?

I believe it is much better to connect to your true self through love, so you can see that mind activity isn’t a problem unless it takes place in a way that isn’t preferable and if you are caught up in it to an extent where you can’t perceive the consciousness part of yourself.

I don’t mean to imply indifference to what is perceived. Many people are involved with their mind activity to an extent where they can’t perceive their spirit self, and suffer accordingly. Plus, sometimes what mind brings into being is quite beautiful.

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Ginny

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #1 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 5:45pm

Recoverer,

What a lovely post. The mind and the brain are two completely different things and I couldn't agree more with your view on Consciousness, Love and there not being anything to fear when experiencing alternate states/locales. Nothing to fear except what our own fear-based beliefs manifest. Everything we have ever been, are and will be is as close to us right now as our faces are as close to us.

Much love,

Ginny

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"Intelligence is knowing that which is important." Albert Einstein

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #2 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:26pm Thank you Ginny. I agree with what you added about mind and brain being different. On this board I believe it is typical to think in such a way, but I figure that there are a lot of people who don't see that such a distinction exits.
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Rondele

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #3 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:21pm

Albert- I agree with Ginny, your post really hit home with me. You conveyed in a few words a powerful message, one that especially is meaningful to me since it's given me renewed interest in a book I recently bought on meditation (10% Happier by Dan Harris). Harris is a familiar figure, he's the morning weekend co-host on GMA.

You have a real knack of conveying your beliefs without resorting to the kind of bloviating, self-serving posts that have dominated the board lately.

A refreshing change of pace!

R

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #4 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:28pm Roger: Thank you for your kind words. Dan Harris, I haven't heard his name before. That's an interesting title, "10% happier." Did he self publish? A publisher might be opposed to the 10% part.
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Rondele

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #5 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:57pm

Harris' book was published by !t, an imprint of Harper Collins.

The title occurred to him as a way of expressing to others the value of meditation. He was turned off by certain proponents of meditation (esp from the "big" names, Tolle and Chopra, since he felt they over-hyped the benefits). He was able to have several meetings with them and others since he was doing stories for GMA which assured him access.

He found that by telling people meditation would help them become just 10% happier instead of promising them the moon, they would be more receptive.

Good strategy, and good title for his book!

R

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #6 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 4:04pm

Roger:

Thank you for the clarification.

I believe that there are people out there who overstate what they experience.

One problem with this is that some people might measure how they are doing as compared to how other people are "supposedly" doing. This is a big mistake.

When we are incarnated in a body, living in the energy field of this World, and dealing with life's challenges, it isn't easy to be blissed out all the time.

Not that it is necessary. It is more of a matter of where our heart is. Having spiritual depth doesn't mean that you will never be challenged by life in this World.

rondele wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:57pm:

Harris' book was published by !t, an imprint of Harper Collins.

The title occurred to him as a way of expressing to others the value of meditation. He was turned off by certain proponents of meditation (esp from the "big" names, Tolle and Chopra, since he felt they over-hyped the benefits). He was able to have several meetings with them and others since he was doing stories for GMA which assured him access.

He found that by telling people meditation would help them become just 10% happier instead of promising them the moon, they would be more receptive.

Good strategy, and good title for his book!

R

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Rondele Ex Member	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #7 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 6:58pm In case you're interested, here is the video where Harris had a panic attack, and what eventually led him to explore meditation. He's a believer in its benefits. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/abcs-dan-harris-confronts-video-of-himself-having-pan... R
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Rondele

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #8 - Mar 31^st, 2014 at 11:36am

recoverer wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:28pm:

Roger:

Thank you for your kind words. Dan Harris, I haven't heard his name before. That's an interesting title, "10% happier."

Did he self publish? A publisher might be opposed to the 10% part.

Albert, I see this morning where this book is #1 on the NY Times best selling list. For anyone wanting to learn more about the benefits of meditation along with tips for being successful with it, I highly recommend this book. Entertaining as well.

R

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Vicky

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #9 - Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:03pm

Hi Albert,

I too agree and resonate with what you shared. I totally get what you're saying. I've had similar types of meditations/states that you just described. Sometimes I can achieve that state of being easily while just awakening and feeling myself split between a higher-state of consciousness and at the same time feeling like I'm coming back to my every-day state of consciousness.

Other times I've experienced this while awake and doing any normal every-day thing. That's what I love best, is when I can just be myself but feel the elation of that higher state of consciousness. It doesn't make any of life's problems change or disappear, but it makes me see and feel things from a much broader perspective. In that higher state I feel peace and love and clarity but can still relate to the things I'm dealing with in life and how they affect me and how I feel about them. I view these glimpses as a way for my higher self to give me a little pat that says "Don't worry, everything's working out perfectly." That's the feeling. Like a reminder of who I really am, as opposed to my problems and worries defining who I am and what is real.

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #10 - Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:41pm

Number one and good, what a rare combination.

rondele wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 11:36am:

recoverer wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:28pm:

Roger:

Thank you for your kind words. Dan Harris, I haven't heard his name before. That's an interesting title, "10% happier."

Did he self publish? A publisher might be opposed to the 10% part.

Albert, I see this morning where this book is #1 on the NY Times best selling list. For anyone wanting to learn more about the benefits of meditation along with tips for being successful with it, I highly recommend this book. Entertaining as well.

R

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #11 - Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:51pm

Hello Vicky and thank you for sharing.

As with you, I can feel my beingsness, love etc while active, but I can't say I do so all the time.

I knew that I would have a busy day at work today. When I meditated this morning I thought to not let the stress get the best of me. Today I remembered this at times, but not so much when I had computer and printer problems. Partially because I got into a "how dare my computer and printer not work correctly when I have a lot to do!" way of thinking.

Live and learn.

P.S. It would help if ongoing computer and printer problems could be fixed once and for all.

Vicky wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:03pm:

Hi Albert,

I too agree and resonate with what you shared. I totally get what you're saying. I've had similar types of meditations/states that you just described. Sometimes I can achieve that state of being easily while just awakening and feeling myself split between a higher-state of consciousness and at the same time feeling like I'm coming back to my every-day state of consciousness.

Other times I've experienced this while awake and doing any normal every-day thing. That's what I love best, is when I can just be myself but feel the elation of that higher state of consciousness. It doesn't make any of life's problems change or disappear, but it makes me see and feel things from a much broader perspective. In that higher state I feel peace and love and clarity but can still relate to the things I'm dealing with in life and how they affect me and how I feel about them. I view these glimpses as a way for my higher self to give me a little pat that says "Don't worry, everything's working out perfectly." That's the feeling. Like a reminder of who I really am, as opposed to my problems and worries defining who I am and what is real.

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I Am Dude

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #12 - Apr 16^th, 2014 at 11:18am

Hey Recoverer and other afterlife knowledge friends!

Very interesting point that you brought up regarding the relationship between mind and consciousness.

It would appear that our consciousness and mind are one. But perhaps on a fundamental level we are not our mind, but rather we are the consciousness that perceives itself through the mind, and the mind is simply a tool that we use to experience reality, perhaps a byproduct of consciousness experiencing itself, just as our physical body is a tool used to experience the physical world, and yet on a fundamental level we are not our body, the body is an illusion, ever-changing and impermanent, as is the activity of the mind.

Buddhism says that the mind is the reflection of illusion, and once illusion is transcended we enter a state of "no mind" in which only ultimate, divine wisdom is perceived. But it is true, there is still perception, and so according to our current definitions this would necessitate a mind, otherwise there would be no perception at all. But perhaps we are using erroneous definitions. Perhaps what we know as the mind is actually the movements of illusion that exist within our perceptions and not the perception itself, and the transcendence of these illusory mental activities exposes our true self, true divine awareness, free of the movements of mind.

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #13 - Apr 16^th, 2014 at 12:47pm

Hello Out of Body Dude. I hope you are doing well.

I figure we have the option of being conscious without creating anything to experience, or we can create so we have something to experience.

Whatever we create is secondary to our basic beingness, even though what is created comes from ourselves.

If we get tangled up and deluded by what we create, it can be a problem for a while.

Once we learn to use our creative ability in a wise and loving way and understand that it comes from ourselves, we'll no longer use it in a way that isn't beneficial.

When precisely love came into being, I don't no. Whatever the case, it comes from ourselves, just like everything else.

How much we need to create once we live completely according to love, I don't know.

I don't believe we can ever separate ourselves from the mind aspect of our being no matter how long we choose not use it, because it is a part of who we are.

Alberto VO5 Grin

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I Am Dude

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #14 - Apr 16^th, 2014 at 3:57pm

Alberto I am doing great, thanks, and I likewise hope you are well.

Regarding this topic, along with most others discussed on this board, 'tis something that probably needs to be experienced first hand with clarity to gain proper insight into. Speculation only goes so far, which is why I have distanced myself from the forum life and used the energies I was channeling into discussion, debate, and speculation more fully into my practices. I have likewise stopped reading material detailing what other people believe or claim is truth and instead put that energy into allowing myself to experience truth for myself.

If we look closely at our motivations for activity such expressing personal beliefs, debating the validity of concepts, and trying to change the viewpoints of others, we may find a nasty mixture of ego, attachment, and identification issues at play underlying the surface conviction of "liberating" others or providing them a service. We may find ourselves wasting hours on end trying to make others see things our way, or looking to others to provide the answers to questions of which we are ignorant to, all the while stunting our own personal growth, neglecting the true source of wisdom within.

I have found that the purification of these desires and attachments of the ego is of upmost importance if one is to be liberated from negativity and delusion and rise into higher states of oneness with divine truth and clarity, and so I encourage everyone participating on this forum to deeply examine their role here and the motivation for their activities, and consider the idea that it may be of more benefit to exert more energy into the spiritual practices that will bring you closer to truth rather than seeking them from others who may very well be equally as deluded as you.

Looking back at my years of activity on this board and the times when I was inactive and my spiritual productivity during these times, I realize that I should have taken the time I spent here debating and expressing beliefs and instead used it to develop my spirituality through experience, as this is the only way truth can be acquired- through direct experience. I would have been hundreds, if not thousands of hours of meditation and insight time ahead in my development. Of course, this goes for all time-wasting, unproductive activities. Not that this group is a waste of time or unproductive in and of itself, especially as compared to watching television or drinking alcohol or doing drugs for example, but I do find many aspects of it largely unnecessary and distracting.

My point is simply to understand that knowledge, wisdom, and liberation are achieved through effort and experience, and while the guidance of those that are further along the path is helpful and I appreciate this site for providing this service, these more experienced individuals are likewise dealing with their own issues of ego attachments and thus should not get wrapped up in assuming the role of Oh Wise and Experienced One, for there are likely deceptive and distractive internal forces that are stunting further growth and development to the extent that these delusions are entertained.

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seagull Senior Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 269 land sea sky Gender:	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #15 - Apr 16^th, 2014 at 4:13pm Maybe you're right, Dude. Glad to see you, was thinking of you a few days ago, then here you are. Can you tell us about some of your experiences you had while you have been away?
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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #16 - Apr 16^th, 2014 at 5:03pm

Well, sometimes I waste my time watching TV, so I might as well spend time trying to be helpful to others.

When I'm done here in this World I'd rather say that I tried even if I failed, than say I didn't try at all.

Not that I get it right all the time, but considering how much misleading info is out there, overall I don't believe it will hurt if I try.

I believe it is possible to learn from others without getting caught up in their belief systems. Once we know it is possible to get caught up in an erroneous and limiting belief system, we should be able to read just about anything without getting misguided.

I can't meditate all of the time because my energy (parts of my being) is often involved with helping with retrievals. There have been occasions when I started to meditate and the friendly beings I work with asked me to stop doing so because it was interferring with the retrieval process. At times it is hard to feel blissful when I'm helping out with lower realm retrievals.

And Dude, you just did some of what you just wrote against.

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BobMoenroe Ex Member	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #17 - Apr 17^th, 2014 at 4:31am Thanks Dude, good points and perfect timing. Recoverer, sure there are good conversations and helping out. Also there is "helping" out a board and the world when one's ample initiative is needed for helping and letting the respective self grow.
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DocM

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #18 - Apr 17^th, 2014 at 6:36am

Good to see you back, Dude. And say it ain't so (your leaving) Bob.

I would just add this to the mix. There is no such thing as wasted time (IMHO). For myself, I don't seek advice from others here to worship a "wise one," but I'd like to think of it as an exchange of thoughts/ideas, and hope to open myself up to the thoughts of others. I can do this during meditation as well, but the general process is the same. I am not personally trying to convert anyone, but I do enjoy a good discussion. Is that ego? Perhaps. But it still serves a purpose.

From my perspective, being incarnated into a human animal body means that I will be subject to desires and ego for a while -- drives for sex, alcohol, entertainment, etc. I don't believe in pure ascetisim, as it seems counterintuitive to the human experience. Life seems perfectly set up to teach me it's lessons on ego, unity and love with the push-me/pull-you movement of the physcal world, yin/yang and clash of egos. However, it does at times make me sad.

OOBD, yes, at times these posts can seem like mental masturbation, yet this forum touches on all the big issues: love, spirituality, and our relationship with God. If I hung out here and did not play outside with my son and dog, if I didn't engage the real world, I would think that posting here was a hindrance to my own growth.

The thing is, (and this is not obvious), I think our own spiritual growth is an inevitability, no matter how fast or slow it seems. This is, for me part of the wonder of it all.

M

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #19 - Apr 17^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

BobMoenroe:

I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence.

Quote:

Thanks Dude, good points and perfect timing.

Recoverer, sure there are good conversations and helping out. Also there is "helping" out a board and the world when one's ample initiative is needed for helping and letting the respective self grow.

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I Am Dude

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #20 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 12:10pm

Seagull, I am currently writing a book that will contain many new experiences.

I will most likely be releasing it in ebook format for free so if you like I can send you a copy when it is finished.

Recoverer, I believe Bob meant that some people try to help others when they should be helping themselves.

I wrote what I wrote to introduce the idea that the delusive urges, attachments, and activities of the ego may play a bigger role than it may appear in the lives of those who are not constantly mindful of their mental and physical actions and reactions and the underlying causes of same. I feel compelled to speak of this because I myself was once fully engaged in these elusive ego-driven mental mechanisms, and with the help of regular vipassana meditation and mindfulness practices I have learned to recognize these unwholesome habits and attachments within myself and have been working diligently to eradicate them, as even the most subtle of defilements inevitably leads to suffering. I see my past mistakes reflected in the unconscious actions of others, and so I am offering this advice to those who may benefit from my words.

I believe it is most powerful to lead and teach by example, and while I cannot effectively do this through words, I offer them nevertheless as a testament to my own personal experience of deep self-discovery and the spark of true liberation from illusion and suffering that I am becoming more and more aware of as I further my vipassana and mindfulness practices. Thus I encourage those who seek to fully know one's self and the true nature of one's experience and reality to invest their time more deeply into mindfulness meditative practices such as vipassana and tibetan dream yoga.

Of course, you can continue to spend your time speculating and debating as well, I'm sure forum addiction has led lots of people to attain enlightenment and liberation. Cheesy

I am not saying forums and discussions are bad. What I am saying is that the reasons for our engagements in them may very well be driven by the desires and attachments of ego, and I believe it should be a personal duty for any individual wishing to liberate one's consciousness from impurity and grow spiritually to learn to become mindful of even the most subtle of defilements. As I am no longer in need of what it is that I used to seek and that many others continue to seek through these interactions, my goal here is now to provide those who wish to free themselves of these self-imposed mental burdens with the knowledge of how to do so. I have a collection of vipassana (insight) meditation materials, thoroughly detailed instruction manuals, and audio discourses from 10-day retreats, as well as many informative and instructive materials on Tibetan dream yoga practice. If anyone cares to acquire these, simply send me a message, I am at your service.

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #21 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 12:36pm

Dude:

I don't agree with much of what you said. I am not going to make the mistake of judging how spiritually deep others are by whether or not they take part on a spiritual forum. I believe you are being an extremist. Ego this, ego that, blah, blah, blah.

If you want to claim to be spiritually advanced while you at the same time put others down, that is your choice.

Hah, hah! Grin

Look at how many posts I have written. I must be the least spiritually developed person on this forum.

That's all I have to say. I don't want waste a bunch of time talking about your measurement system.

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seagull

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #22 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 1:25pm

Thanks for the info, Dude. Although I am not familiar with the materials you have been studying and practicing I have been helped by some of your recent suggestions.

Your first post caused me to take a step back and to observe myself and my motivations over the last few days, in general, in daily life. I do not see it as criticism, but as observation, and have combined my self-observation with personal self-encouragement to open further to "spirit" moment by moment.

I had an absolutely amazing day yesterday because of that. Although feeling very very tired, I took that opportunity to "commune" more often with my spiritual guides, and was shown that if I do slow down and take the time to open myself up to it, all kinds of wonders appear right before my eyes. Things like a small child being carried by his family as I stepped aside off the pavement so they could all pass and walked in the street for a moment, and at that exact moment I passed, the child held out a small red rose and smiled directly at me. Things like that.

Life is beautiful when you notice each moment and take the time to speak kindly to others, sharing their suffering, laughing with them, encouraging them, giving them your full presence.

So, I thank you for that.

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I Am Dude

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #23 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 4:14pm

Seagull

I am glad that you were able to grasp my message without letting your ego interfere. It is not everyone who can so easily objectively scrutinize one's own thoughts and actions. It requires confidence and the willingness to grow and change.

Recoverer

It seems you have taken what I said personally. It was not my intention to offend you. It was not meant to be a critique and I was not coming from a place of judgement, but rather of discernment. I am not condemning anyone for their behaviors or tendencies, nor am I putting myself on a pedestal, as you have also falsely perceived. Never have I said that I was spiritually advanced, nor have I put others down. Perhaps your own feelings are clouding your own discernment. I will clarify my message and purpose once more for the sake of those who may have been thrown off by your short-sighted conclusions:

What I wrote was based on my own personal experiences of using the forum setting as a playground for my ego's desires and attachments. It was not based on anyone else. As I have learned the error of my ways through a reliable and repeatable system of meditative practices, I simply shared what I have learned and the methods by which I have gained personal benefit with those that may have a similar interest in one day overcoming the delusions and defilements that plague us humans that generally go unnoticed.

If you had truly grasped what I said, you would understand that it is not the forum activity itself, but rather it is the underlying desires and intent that generate the activity which should be evaluated. This goes for all activity in all areas of one's life. Everyone can be more mindful, aside from maybe those who claim to be fully liberated, and I have learned by experience that the dedicated pursuit of this process of in-depth mindfulness and related meditative practices affords innumerable benefits which has personally liberated me from the seeking of approval, the seeking of establishment and confirmation of my beliefs, the seeking of gaining more and more information, and the seeking of establishing my identity to others that was largely driving my past activities here.

Although I notice behavior similar to my own past ego-driven behaviors that I can draw comparisons to, my intent is not to imply that the forum members here are guilty of being ego-maniacs, but rather to encourage everyone to be more mindful of their thoughts and actions, as there can be no spiritual growth if one does not know one's self, and to offer my knowledge of a practice that has verifiably liberated many of it's practitioners from many of the defilements and suffering that we so eagerly seek to escape from. My intent was to warn those who may be unaware of the underlying source of illusory desires and attachments that drives us to partake in unwholesome mental and physical actions, and to point to a way that I have experientially discovered to allow for the development of clarity from such delusions.

If you see any judgement or superiority in what I have said, it may do you some benefit to reevaluation your perceptions and the possible cause of the negativity that you have cast over what I have written. My friend Seagull has benefited from what I have said, and I hope that you and others may as well.

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #24 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 5:06pm

Dude:

Read your posts closely and you might feel differently. I was going to point out specific words but there were too many too point out.

Perhaps it is possible that some of the people who post on this forum are motivated by something other than ego-based trickery. Perhaps some people have a genuine desire to be helpful.

Perhaps some people just simply have the desire to communicate with others. I just spoke to a lady at my work about how un-sociable things are at where we work. I’ve found it problematic because it doesn’t feel natural to be surrounded by people for much of my waking state life, and such people aren’t open to sharing love with each other. The just mentioned co-worker I spoke of cried a bit and said it breaks her heart. She believes it is sad to have to spend so much time working at a place where people are not open to each other.

I live alone. I have only two friends. It is hard to find friends I can connect with. I don’t want to do things such as go out to clubs, play golf and go to baseball games. When it comes to spiritual people, it doesn’t make sense for me to go to a church because such people might find it hard to deal with what I’m in touch with spiritually.

I look for places where New Age people meet but I don’t want to go to a meeting where channeling takes place, a questionable guru speaks, or an introductory course I don’t need takes place.

Because of my spiritually I basically do okay being alone most of the time, but sometimes I like to visit a place like this forum. Since we are ultimately all one, it doesn’t seem natural to be isolated as much as I am. I have more contact with spirits than with people.

So perhaps it is best to be a little more sensitive when you stated your reasons for not wanting to take part in a forum. If you don’t want to that’s fine, but why make remarks that speak of speculation in a negative way and suggest people are driven by ego-based motivations?
If you are seeking growth by dealing with egotistical tendencies I understand that. But perhaps it is best to be discerning about where you believe you see ego manifesting.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #25 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 5:12pm

Dude:

The system won't let me edit my last post now, so here's an addition to my last post. Below is an example of what you wrote. Can you see why somebody might interpret it in a negative way?

"If we look closely at our motivations for activity such expressing personal beliefs, debating the validity of concepts, and trying to change the viewpoints of others, we may find a nasty mixture of ego, attachment, and identification issues at play underlying the surface conviction of "liberating" others or providing them a service. We may find ourselves wasting hours on end trying to make others see things our way, or looking to others to provide the answers to questions of which we are ignorant to, all the while stunting our own personal growth, neglecting the true source of wisdom within."

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I Am Dude Super Member Offline Posts: 1462 Gender:	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #26 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 6:18pm I can see why you felt personally attacked and have a negative bias towards the points I have made. Sounds like you could benefit from some of my advice. I say this with love and respect. Good luck on your journey.
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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #27 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 6:41pm

Dude:

Going by an email I received I'm not the only person who interpreted your posts as I did. I don't know if there are other people who interpreted as I did.

Of course this doesn't absolutely mean that we put one and two together in a correct way.

It is true that part of my response was reactive. Not everyone on this forum is a fan of some of my past posts. It can be challenging when you try to be helpful and in return you receive negative feedback.

If by "some of my advice" you mean not wasting time on a forum and not writing posts that are based on ego, then it seems as if my interpretation of what you initially said is accurate.

Whether you believe my forum participation is based on the reasons I stated on my next to last post, that is up to you.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #28 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 7:27pm

Recoverer,

Is there a reason why you continue to work at a place where you feel so shut off from other people and you feel you "cannot" make a mistake, as you mentioned in a post somewhere recently? Do you think that you do not deserve a different sort of life, if you would feel more comfortable around people who are more open and expressive towards each other? I don't think a "geographical solution" is always the best strategy, but sometimes it can be.

Although you say you have "only" two friends in your private life, there is nothing wrong with that. And, as you see by the email you received, you have at least one friend on this forum, and no doubt you have many friends here.

Is it possible for you to find volunteer work or outdoor activities which are more enjoyable for you to do in your private time so that you can build more connections in your private life? Sometimes it is easier to form friendships if you and others are already doing things together in a purposeful way, and sometimes friendship is a side effect of working together on projects.

How about learning something in the subjects of art or music?

Pets are great, especially dogs. People love to talk with you if you are with a cute dog, and they love to talk about their pets. It's not only wonderful support to have a creature who is so happy to be with you everyday, but it attracts others to you. But, you have to really be ready for that, and know you can devote your love and attention each day to your pet -- for a long time. In my case, I have always been happier when I have had an animal or two to love.

These are just some ideas, for anyone who might wonder how to make connections with people outside of a job. Appearance, social class, politics, spiritual beliefs are no barrier in some kinds of activities.

Aside from that, other possibilities can unfold in your life if you make room for them. You never know who you will meet or where that might lead.

Otherwise, I have been through some frustrating times at my job over the years. I have been there for almost 25 years through all kinds of changes. As time has passed I now realize that most of my problems in my past were self-created -- and I don't "blame" myself because it's just being human.

Well, these are just a few thoughts because I do care, and if anything rings a bell for you at some point, that's great.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #29 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 7:52pm

Hello Seagull:

I'm not certain of what you mean by "not making a mistake." It is hard for me to remember everything I've written on this forum (I've written so much

), but I believe you are referring about when I allow myself to get stressed by the things I am responsible for at work. It is true, there isn't much room for making mistakes. I don't stress out too much, but sometimes I falter.

Regarding changing jobs, I don't know. I'll be 56 next month. I hope to retire in about 9 years. When you're older it isn't always easy to find a new job.

Plus if I change jobs the same thing might happen at the next place I work. I won't match up with the people who work there. Plus, the job I have does have some advantages.

Some of the people at my work know that I communicate with spirits. I don't know how uneasy this makes them. If you knew me in person you'd see that I'm a really nice person and basically likeable. But if people don't make an energetic connection, relationships don't tend to form.

Regarding volunteer work, the way I help with retrievals I help much of the time. I help when I'm just sitting there. If I get up and move around I can't help in the same way. So I give retrievals first priority. Sometimes I choose to not do something like go to a musical performance so I can sit at home and help with retrievals.

I'm going to the New Living Expo in San Mateo California this weekend. Maybe I'll meet someone there.

If not, well it isn't as if it's really hurting me being alone most of the time. But because I am, sometimes I feel inclined to visit a place like this forum. I don't believe it is a waste of time.

Did it sound like I made some excuses?

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #30 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 8:57pm

Recoverer,

Yes, you said it, "cannot" make a mistake. Somewhere.

Regarding retirement, I'm not sure I will ever retire. A lot of folks I have seen retire weren't happy or died shortly thereafter. Having meaningful work is a great blessing in life. If you feel that your work is meaningful, that you do something which is needed and that you are the right person in that job, maybe it's a good thing for you. If you are just there because you are "holding out" until you can leave, I'm not sure that is always the best path in life. Only you can know, and you will surely find out.

I do hope you make it to the Expo, and that you enjoy some new experiences and talk to good people.

No, you are not making excuses -- you are just being you.

Can you go into a bit more detail about your method for retrievals and how you got started with doing that?

Can you describe some of your retrievals so that I and others can fully understand what it is that you are doing?

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #31 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:15pm

Words can be misread or the intent behind them misinterpreted. I just read Dude's remarks and I understand the confusion. He earnestly meant what he said, yet some of the phrasing and comments could easily be read in a negative light. Personally, I find that anything directed in either direction is often best done through a private message (but that is just a suggestion).

Dude, as it happens, my own personal journey has taken me into a phase to both examine and deconstruct my ego-based thinking over the past year. Perhaps one of the most difficult undertakings any of us can attempt to do or deal with (the ego doesn't give up easily). So often our spiritual journeys, different though they may be, hit some of the same obstacles to overcome.

Matthew

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #32 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:21pm

Seagull:

The work that I do is quite mundane. I view it as a way to pay the bills. I don't believe that I am in this World for my own sake. I'm here to provide the help I provide.

I help with retrievals in an energetic way. Stuck spirits first find me and then they find my connection to the light. Often I feel streams of energy as this process takes place. When I see the spirits with my eyes open they look like points of light. Sometimes I can hear them. I often feel their energy by me.

If their energy needs to be cleansed they merge with me so the light energy I'm connected to can cleanse them. Sometimes their energy feels bad at the beginning, but by the end of the cleansing period I feel love and peace.

As I said on an earlier post, going by the messages I received there are a lot of spirits that need help.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #33 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:25pm

Doc:

You are correct. The same can happen with emails. In a way it would've been better if the exchange was done via PM. Whatever the case, I believe that both Dude and i will be okay.

DocM wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Words can be misread or the intent behind them misinterpreted. I just read Dude's remarks and I understand the confusion. He earnestly meant what he said, yet some of the phrasing and comments could easily be read in a negative light. Personally, I find that anything directed in either direction is often best done through a private message (but that is just a suggestion).

Dude, as it happens, my own personal journey has taken me into a phase to both examine and deconstruct my ego-based thinking over the past year. Perhaps one of the most difficult undertakings any of us can attempt to do or deal with (the ego doesn't give up easily). So often our spiritual journeys, different though they may be, hit some of the same obstacles to overcome.

Matthew

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #34 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:49pm

My further questions are included within the quote. Thank you for your time and your responses. I think it is important for people to understand.

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:21pm:

Seagull:

The work that I do is quite mundane. I view it as a way to pay the bills. I don't believe that I am in this World for my own sake. I'm here to provide the help I provide.

Seagull responds (see, I copy you!): Okay. It seems that the woman you talked with who had the emotional reaction to what you said was willing to have a more personal relationship with you, so maybe she is not the only one. Just a thought.

I help with retrievals in an energetic way. Stuck spirits first find me and then they find my connection to the light. Often I feel streams of energy as this process takes place. When I see the spirits with my eyes open they look like points of light. Sometimes I can hear them. I often feel their energy by me.

Seagull responds: When you hear them, what do they say? I guess I am asking for a more "individual" account of what you are experiencing rather than a generalized one. When did you realize you could do this, and how did that come about?

If their energy needs to be cleansed they merge with me so the light energy I'm connected to can cleanse them. Sometimes their energy feels bad at the beginning, but by the end of the cleansing period I feel love and peace.

Seagull responds: What do you mean by "cleansed?" Why is it that they don't just go "into" the light? Why is this process necessary?

As I said on an earlier post, going by the messages I received there are a lot of spirits that need help.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #35 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 10:07pm

Seagull:

My comments can be found within brackets below.

seagull wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:49pm:

My further questions are included within the quote. Thank you for your time and your responses. I think it is important for people to understand. [I don't believe that the way I help with retrievals is for everybody. Each person has his or her way.]

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:21pm:

Seagull:

The work that I do is quite mundane. I view it as a way to pay the bills. I don't believe that I am in this World for my own sake. I'm here to provide the help I provide.

Seagull responds (see, I copy you!): Okay. It seems that the woman you talked with who had the emotional reaction to what you said was willing to have a more personal relationship with you, so maybe she is not the only one. Just a thought.

[During the past 5 years there have been 4 women at my work that showed an interest in me including the above lady. I couldn't sense that our life purposes are compatible and I didn't want to get involved with them only to have things not work out in the end. It would we be nice if we could just be friends, but sometimes people are all or nothing. The lady above is a fairly open minded Evangelical Christian. I don't believe I can tell her about everything that takes place in my life. It might be a bit much for her.]

I help with retrievals in an energetic way. Stuck spirits first find me and then they find my connection to the light. Often I feel streams of energy as this process takes place. When I see the spirits with my eyes open they look like points of light. Sometimes I can hear them. I often feel their energy by me.

Seagull responds: When you hear them, what do they say? I guess I am asking for a more "individual" account of what you are experiencing rather than a generalized one. When did you realize you could do this, and how did that come about?

[This is a long story. I started doing retrievals the Bruce Moen way. Then I switched to my way. At first I didn't understand what was happening, but eventually my spirit guidance let me know in various ways. Only the unfriendly retrieved spirits say things and what they say isn't nice. Other wise I hear the noises that are made by the non-human spirits that are helped.]

If their energy needs to be cleansed they merge with me so the light energy I'm connected to can cleanse them. Sometimes their energy feels bad at the beginning, but by the end of the cleansing period I feel love and peace.

Seagull responds: What do you mean by "cleansed?" Why is it that they don't just go "into" the light? Why is this process necessary?

[It isn't necessary for all spirits, just some. The spirits that are really caught up in a state of darkness and confusion need to be cleansed so they can open up to the positive influence of the light.]

As I said on an earlier post, going by the messages I received there are a lot of spirits that need help.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #36 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 3:51am

My comments are within the quoted text as "Seagull responds (2), replying to your brackets. I hope you don't mind my questions but you spend a lot of time talking to people here and advising people here so I think it is fair to ask this of you. Please don't take any of my comments as criticism of you personally.

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 10:07pm:

Seagull:

My comments can be found within brackets below.

seagull wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:49pm:

My further questions are included within the quote. Thank you for your time and your responses. I think it is important for people to understand. [I don't believe that the way I help with retrievals is for everybody. Each person has his or her way.]

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:21pm:

Seagull:

The work that I do is quite mundane. I view it as a way to pay the bills. I don't believe that I am in this World for my own sake. I'm here to provide the help I provide.

Seagull responds (see, I copy you!): Okay. It seems that the woman you talked with who had the emotional reaction to what you said was willing to have a more personal relationship with you, so maybe she is not the only one. Just a thought.

[During the past 5 years there have been 4 women at my work that showed an interest in me including the above lady. I couldn't sense that our life purposes are compatible and I didn't want to get involved with them only to have things not work out in the end. It would we be nice if we could just be friends, but sometimes people are all or nothing. The lady above is a fairly open minded Evangelical Christian. I don't believe I can tell her about everything that takes place in my life. It might be a bit much for her.]

(Seagull responds (2): I don't tell people I work with everything and I generally don't discuss spiritual or political matters. What I do is let my interactions be natural and friendly and based on what they are interested in that day. Simple things. That's all that's really needed and builds a friendly rapport over time. No one I know wants to be all wrapped up in other people's lives if they are busy at work and they have their own interests. I think that's fine. I'm not saying that people at work can meet your needs in a larger, more personal way, just that the work environment could possibly be improved by simple pleasantries and a genuine interest in others which doesn't cross the boundaries of what they consider "normal" interactions.)

I help with retrievals in an energetic way. Stuck spirits first find me and then they find my connection to the light. Often I feel streams of energy as this process takes place. When I see the spirits with my eyes open they look like points of light. Sometimes I can hear them. I often feel their energy by me.

Seagull responds: When you hear them, what do they say? I guess I am asking for a more "individual" account of what you are experiencing rather than a generalized one. When did you realize you could do this, and how did that come about?

[This is a long story. I started doing retrievals the Bruce Moen way. Then I switched to my way. At first I didn't understand what was happening, but eventually my spirit guidance let me know in various ways. Only the unfriendly retrieved spirits say things and what they say isn't nice. Other wise I hear the noises that are made by the non-human spirits that are helped.]

(Seagull responds (2): That wasn't a long story at all....Are you hearing voices as if a person or entity is actually next to you in the room or are you "sensing" voices during deep meditation? Some people speak as if they can do retrievals while sitting at a lunch counter having a sandwich -- or I seem to recall Bruce Moen writing that he could after a while, that he didn't have to always be in a "proper" meditative state. I personally have not been able to do that. I don't often do retrievals, as I find it to be an experimental activity, a learning process. I don't understand why someone would spend so much time doing that because I don't understand why someone would believe their purpose in life here on earth is to spend so much of it involved in this kind of afterlife activity.)

If their energy needs to be cleansed they merge with me so the light energy I'm connected to can cleanse them. Sometimes their energy feels bad at the beginning, but by the end of the cleansing period I feel love and peace.

Seagull responds: What do you mean by "cleansed?" Why is it that they don't just go "into" the light? Why is this process necessary?

[It isn't necessary for all spirits, just some. The spirits that are really caught up in a state of darkness and confusion need to be cleansed so they can open up to the positive influence of the light.]

(Seagull responds (2): What do you mean by "cleansed?" Is it a process? I'm trying to understand what you are actually doing. You have spent years on this forum and not shared individual retrieval experiences here. I am not saying that you must, but you are on Bruce Moen's forum and if you are advising people on an almost daily basis and at times being quite active debating them it would seem important, in my view, for you to expand on your own individual activities so that people would know where you are coming from. Otherwise they might assume you are doing Bruce Moen's method. Actually, it must be very confusing for people who come here to read all this material on these forums and not know who is actually doing what, how it is related to Bruce Moen's materials, or what people's personal motivations are here.

Regarding using other methods, I also started out with Bruce Moen's actual cds, which are great, and they cover some different kinds of meditations. However, I found his retrieval recording to be a bit too fast paced for me and, once I knew the method, I found that I could do this using other meditation aids. However, as I said, it has never involved a significant amount of my time and never will. If it interferes with other things which might enrich your life, that might be something to consider.)

As I said on an earlier post, going by the messages I received there are a lot of spirits that need help.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #37 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:46pm

Seagull:

Please see responses within <>.

seagull wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 3:51am:

My comments are within the quoted text as "Seagull responds (2), replying to your brackets. I hope you don't mind my questions but you spend a lot of time talking to people here and advising people here so I think it is fair to ask this of you. Please don't take any of my comments as criticism of you personally.

<Gee, I hope you don't have the impression that I am that skin thinned. Please don't mistake speaking up for myself as defensiveness. Shouldn't we be able to speak up for ourselves? On this thread both Dude and I did so. I believe this is okay. That said, and to balance things out, no, I'm not beyond getting insulted.>

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 10:07pm:

Seagull:

My comments can be found within brackets below.

seagull wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:49pm:

My further questions are included within the quote. Thank you for your time and your responses. I think it is important for people to understand. [I don't believe that the way I help with retrievals is for everybody. Each person has his or her way.]

recoverer wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 9:21pm:

Seagull:

The work that I do is quite mundane. I view it as a way to pay the bills. I don't believe that I am in this World for my own sake. I'm here to provide the help I provide.

Seagull responds (see, I copy you!): Okay. It seems that the woman you talked with who had the emotional reaction to what you said was willing to have a more personal relationship with you, so maybe she is not the only one. Just a thought.

[During the past 5 years there have been 4 women at my work that showed an interest in me including the above lady. I couldn't sense that our life purposes are compatible and I didn't want to get involved with them only to have things not work out in the end. It would we be nice if we could just be friends, but sometimes people are all or nothing. The lady above is a fairly open minded Evangelical Christian. I don't believe I can tell her about everything that takes place in my life. It might be a bit much for her.]

(Seagull responds (2): I don't tell people I work with everything and I generally don't discuss spiritual or political matters. What I do is let my interactions be natural and friendly and based on what they are interested in that day. Simple things. That's all that's really needed and builds a friendly rapport over time. No one I know wants to be all wrapped up in other people's lives if they are busy at work and they have their own interests. I think that's fine. I'm not saying that people at work can meet your needs in a larger, more personal way, just that the work environment could possibly be improved by simple pleasantries and a genuine interest in others which doesn't cross the boundaries of what they consider "normal" interactions.)

<Because I wrote a couple of books and have an internet site I told a couple of people I work with that I did so. It seemed funny to not say anything. If they look at my books and site they would find out that I communicate with spirits, so I figured that I might as well tell them. It was also a matter of helping two of the ladies that were interested in me understand why I am not available in the usual way. While I am in bed the spirits I help come to me. How many women would be comfortable with this? Plus energetically I can't be connected to a lady while I help with retrievals. For me, being able to provide such service is more important than any pleasure-based thing I could do.>

I help with retrievals in an energetic way. Stuck spirits first find me and then they find my connection to the light. Often I feel streams of energy as this process takes place. When I see the spirits with my eyes open they look like points of light. Sometimes I can hear them. I often feel their energy by me.

Seagull responds: When you hear them, what do they say? I guess I am asking for a more "individual" account of what you are experiencing rather than a generalized one. When did you realize you could do this, and how did that come about?

[This is a long story. I started doing retrievals the Bruce Moen way. Then I switched to my way. At first I didn't understand what was happening, but eventually my spirit guidance let me know in various ways. Only the unfriendly retrieved spirits say things and what they say isn't nice. Other wise I hear the noises that are made by the non-human spirits that are helped.]

(Seagull responds (2): That wasn't a long story at all....Are you hearing voices as if a person or entity is actually next to you in the room or are you "sensing" voices during deep meditation? Some people speak as if they can do retrievals while sitting at a lunch counter having a sandwich -- or I seem to recall Bruce Moen writing that he could after a while, that he didn't have to always be in a "proper" meditative state. I personally have not been able to do that. I don't often do retrievals, as I find it to be an experimental activity, a learning process. I don't understand why someone would spend so much time doing that because I don't understand why someone would believe their purpose in life here on earth is to spend so much of it involved in this kind of afterlife activity.)

<I can hear them without being in a deep state of meditation. I pretty much feel connected to my spirit self even as I walk around. I'd like to add that even though on an earlier post I wrote that I hear what unfriendly spirits say, I can also hear what friendly spirits say. But not more than a sentence at a time. Friendly spirits mainly communicate to me with symbolic visual images. Sometime they communicate to me as a retrieval takes place so I'll better understand what is going on.>

If their energy needs to be cleansed they merge with me so the light energy I'm connected to can cleanse them. Sometimes their energy feels bad at the beginning, but by the end of the cleansing period I feel love and peace.

Seagull responds: What do you mean by "cleansed?" Why is it that they don't just go "into" the light? Why is this process necessary?

[It isn't necessary for all spirits, just some. The spirits that are really caught up in a state of darkness and confusion need to be cleansed so they can open up to the positive influence of the light.]

(Seagull responds (2): What do you mean by "cleansed?" Is it a process? I'm trying to understand what you are actually doing. You have spent years on this forum and not shared individual retrieval experiences here. I am not saying that you must, but you are on Bruce Moen's forum and if you are advising people on an almost daily basis and at times being quite active debating them it would seem important, in my view, for you to expand on your own individual activities so that people would know where you are coming from. Otherwise they might assume you are doing Bruce Moen's method. Actually, it must be very confusing for people who come here to read all this material on these forums and not know who is actually doing what, how it is related to Bruce Moen's materials, or what people's personal motivations are here.

<I started out with Bruce's method, but eventually switched to the method I use. For some helped spirits negative thought energy gets cleansed by light energy. This enables a stuck spirits vibration to increase enough so it can perceive a higher level of being. Bruce wrote of such cleansing when he wrote about Sylvia getting cleansed. When I read that portion of Bruce's book my spirit guidance had gold light appear over the words so I would receive a confirmation of how I help. I guess you can say that I channel positive energy.

I don't write about this much at this forum because for one I am not completely free of the ego tendency of wanting to brag. I make a point of keeping in mind that I wouldn't be able to help in the way I do if it wasn't for the higher levels of being that are involved in the process. I keep in mind how very fortunate I am to being living the kind of life I am living. I keep in mind how less fortunate the spirits I help are, and how they are making a bigger contribution to the process the Oneness is going through because they've taken on more difficult incarnations than I have taken on. I keep it in mind how much help I have received from my spirit guidance.

Despite the fact that I am alone much of the time I feel that I am a very fortunate person. Fortune wise I rate my life a 10. While in this World we can't expect everything to be perfect, so I'll deal with the being alone part. In a way it is good that I am alone much of the time because this fact provides my Soul with a challenge. It has provided me with more motivation to find out where love really comes from.>

Regarding using other methods, I also started out with Bruce Moen's actual cds, which are great, and they cover some different kinds of meditations. However, I found his retrieval recording to be a bit too fast paced for me and, once I knew the method, I found that I could do this using other meditation aids. However, as I said, it has never involved a significant amount of my time and never will. If it interferes with other things which might enrich your life, that might be something to consider.)

As I said on an earlier post, going by the messages I received there are a lot of spirits that need help.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #38 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:20pm

Recoverer, the part of my advice I was referring to in which I believe you could benefit from was regarding the ego's influence on one's thoughts and actions and engaging in mindfulness practices to eliminate suffering caused by the ego's delusions, as is apparent by your admittance that you had a reactive response to my post, rather than a clear and balanced response. This is an obvious sign of an unruly ego, although I could be wrong.

My logic and knowledge of psychology tell me that the ones who would emerge with an overly defensive position would most likely be the same ones that were most guilty of the behavior being confronted- in this case, excessive ego drives- causing the person to react in opposition to an image that it doesn't want to be associate with, an image contrary to the illusions put in place by the ego. Those with less attachment to ego identity are not so much worried about what others think, especially when they are not being personally called out, as no one here was. It may appear in a way that your actions have confirmed what your words denied.

I believe my words are applicable to everyone, myself included, as I am in the process of living them out, and I am far from achieving the end goal of liberation from ego attachments and suffering. That being said, results only come with properly channeled effort, and if one continues to channel their energy into unwholesome avenues of expression, it will only yield impermanent quick fixes of ego gratification, an illusory veil over the underlying suffering giving rise to these reactions and attachments. As you said, Matthew, this is perhaps one of the most difficult challenges in one's journey of personal growth, and probably one of the most important ones.

Recoverer, if you set your ego aside and really read what I wrote, perhaps you may see it more clearly. I suggest you look past the imagined superiority and put downs, and into the heart of my message.

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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #39 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:57pm

Dude:

Even if I did respond to your post in an inaccurate way, perhaps it is a mistake to conclude by this occurrence that I need the help you suggest.

I believe it is much wiser for me to view my life as a whole, rather than judge according to one incident.

Do you actually believe that you have a handle on what my ego drives are like?

A person can have some reactiveness without having a big ego problem. I'm not going to put on a facade of being Mr. Meek.

A lot of the ego theories that are out there don't mean much to me. Years of experience has shown me that some of them come from people who are anything but egoless.

Doc said: "He earnestly meant what he said, yet some of the phrasing and comments could easily be read in a negative light." I don't believe Doc was misled by ego when he came to this conclusion. Notice the word "easily."

My friend found the same before you and I were going back and forth on this. I don't believe he was misled by his ego.

I'd like to add, in the past a couple of other people wrote posts stating that they believe they have wasted time here, and I thought it was insensitive for them to say such a thing. If a person wants to leave, fine, but don't make a statement that to some degree puts down forum participation when people who still want to use the forum read what you write.

You're really spinning if you don't see that you spoke of forum participation (an activity engaged in by people at this forum) in a negative way. The caveats you provided don't negate this fact.

If you didn't intend to say anything that could be construed to be putting down forum participation, fine. But at least take responsibility for the fact that you wrote some words that could be interpreted that way without a person being someone who has a big ego problem and needs to immediately start practicing the approach you present. Perhaps such a person already has a sufficient spiritual practice in place.

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: My meditation this morning Reply #40 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:55pm Dude: The "You're really spinning.." part just popped into my mind. Sorry if that is a bit harsh.
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DocM

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #41 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 7:24am

Albert,

Regarding wasting time on the forum. Yes, I agree with your points. Here people come to talk and exchange ideas. I have learned from others, and I would like to think that I am open to learning more as a result of the discussions (I read Swedenborg thanks to Don, I read Backwards after Kathy's thread on Nanci Dansion, etc.). Some comments are directed by our egos, for sure.

OOBD's point about examining our own ego-related needs when we post is a form of "mindfulness," practiced by buddhists, and seen in different cultures and religions. Sometimes, our ego wants us to "one up" someone who disagrees with our own view. But yet, most of us have not conquered our own egos.
How many christians fail to turn the other cheek?

That being said, I believe that most of the old-timer posters here are already practicing various forms of mindfulness. To suggest that we begin to do so, as if any member is unaware, is just a bit, um......how shall I put it....".paternalistic," if not patronizing.

But I reiterate what I said about OOBD; to me his post does speak in earnestness, and it really is likely that it was just some of the phrasing that made it seem otherwise. But that is water under the bridge.

Also, some of our exploration is going to be in activities that of course could be spent doing other things. But to me, the idea of wasting time, would tie me in to unwasted time, but carried to it's logical conclusion, we might be watching the clock and tied to this linnear ticking, wondering if we could be doing something more useful. Not my cup of tea.

M

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Vicky

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #42 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 8:45am

A lot of threads always turn into the same types of discussions instead of just staying on topic. That's how debates start. I enjoy the nature of forums in general but specifically enjoy this site. I don't enjoy nor agree with everyone and everything shared here, but one thing I do enjoy no matter what the topic is or who is posting is seeing the tides. People come and go, some change and come back, and some stay the same never seeming to grow or change yet they are still here. Topics evolve or devolve in patterns and everyone is guilty of trying to put their own influence in. Wherever a person is in his own spiritual path and growth is their own business and their own responsibility. For the sake of having this forum Bruce has provided us, and for the sake of those of us who enjoy coming to read and chat, I love that we have the opportunity to share and learn from each other.

I know I owe a lot to what I've learned over the years being here. Even reading something I disagree with gets me thinking, moving, motivated to formulate my own ideas or seek out my own experiences. I think that's the whole point of having a place like a forum to come to. The diversity is one of the reasons we get personally motivated to seek our own growth.

It's really unnecessary to talk about ego and drives and intentions about other people, to speculate how or why someone could be doing better or taking a higher road in their path. I just enjoy discussion for the sake of discussion, not for the sake of trying to convince anyone of anything.

But yes, sometimes it is necessary to debate and try to convince because that too is a big part of how personal growth works. It's also nice to be able to share an experience that you're proud of having, whether or not everyone agrees with it being real or what it means. I personally feel it would be nice to knock off the whole ego debate that always goes on here. I rarely engage in it just because it's getting old. Without egos and personalities and diversity in beliefs we really wouldn't have much stimulation nor reason for being here, here on the forum or here in this world. The point of life is to experience, learn, have fun, feel, and grow. You can't just be knowledgeable, experienced, advanced, spiritually evolved, or ego-free and pure without the opportunity of growth.

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recoverer

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Re: My meditation this morning
Reply #43 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

Doc and Vicky:

I hope you don't mind me responding to both of your posts at the same time.

I also have learned from people at this forum. One time I went away a bit and my guidance suggested that I return.

Regarding some of the things I say that not everybody appreciates, I have good motives, and I am basically detached from the results, but not completely. The thought of earnest spiritual seekers being misled by misleading source pains me, but I should give more credence to the fact that there are occasions when Souls could use the lesson of being misled. I don't regret being misled by the gurus I used to be into. It was a learning experience. Plus, there could be occasions when I am wrong about a source

Regarding mindfullness, I read about such teachings in the 1980s. I practice it in my own way. I don't focus on ego a lot. Instead I try to find ways to live more completely according to love. If our heart is in good order, our ego should follow. I think in terms of becomming a better me rather than a "no me."

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