Do not love him because you pity him; 
Nor because you admire his achievements (his personality);
Nor because you understand his motives;
But love him because he is your brother man.

Do not forgive him because of sins you see within him;
Nor because of sins he has confessed to you;
Nor because he is a slower man than you;
But forgive him because he wears upon his forehead the cross of freewill.
(…because he carries in his soul the burden of freewill.)
(…because he carries on his shoulders the burden/cross of free choice/freewill.)

Believing or knowing are not the only two options.
They are just two, like two paving stones.
They each are surrounded by other stones, arranged adjacent to each other as in their nature as they are made,
Between belief and knowledge are stepping stones, and when we have those stepping stones located and defined then we can step from one stone to the other, and walk across from belief to knowledge.

Can you or others think of some stepping stones that might exist between belief and knowledge? And their locations and definitions (position, size and shape, so we know where to step to land our foot upon them)

I don't mean to be vague and mysterious by putting it as a question like that, but also I don't want to just woffle on and spout things that others might not be interested in, or what is just a waste of time. I'm thinking I might have done enough of that. I am trying to figure out a way to present understandings which people may not  be seeking or realise the space is there for them. Please excuse me while I try different approaches, if some of them seem unsuitable, just tell me.

One thing for sure, I intend to make shorter more specific posts, be sharper, more precise and to the point.

cb
 

  Don't know much about Chiron except that it's supposed to be the wounded healer archetype.

  In my chart, Chiron is very closely conjunct my Mid Heaven (in Taurus), very closely trine Capricorn Mercury, and very closely trine Virgo Jupiter.   It's also widely trine the Capricorn Sun, which is also somewhat widely conjunct Mercury, and widely trine Virgo Mars.

    Still haven't figured out what exactly it indicates.   Mid Heaven relates to career, deeper calling in life, how one serves the larger society around them, and public image. 

  But yes, i do suppose i can identify strongly with the wounded healer archetype in general. 

  I just may be a wounded asshat who occasionally and temporarily dips into agonizingly pure attunement with PUL.

Nah.  It's hard to convey through this medium, a subtle and wry type thought.  The humor and attitude in which it was written easily get's lost at times.

Justin, the intent was to write and hopefully gain more understanding about how one's sense of self can be both wounded and offended by the thoughts of others that aren't our problems, but we can make them so by connecting external words our sense of self (or as a threat to someone/a group one likes) for various reasons. I used the title from this piece, highlighted in yellow http://goo.gl/ny5mQ. Btw, the free daily horoscope and short forecast are short of perfect but pretty decent imo.

Quote:

I've learnt about lion humour from a friend. Liked your sense of humour and had a laugh. This also touches what I like about cb's awareness and usage of clear and precise communication, which adds to the thread.

2bets, nothing got pulled, the quotes in the first post are imaginary examples. Started with a bang and continued from there.

As a contrast to the left hemisphere's Pure UnconditionaLogical thought - Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart on the abstracts of the grey coloured rainbow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptoN-5QE0Lw

"The Muffin Man is seated at the table in the laboratory of the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen. Reaching for an oversized chrome spoon he gathers an intimate quantity of dried muffin remnants, and brushing his scapular aside proceeds to dump these inside of his shirt. He turns to us and speaks:

'Some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!'

Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing anointment utensil he poots forth a quarter-ounce green rosette (oh ah yuk yuk... let's try that again...!) He poots forth a quarter-ounce green rosette near the summit of a dense but radiant muffin of his own design. Later he says:

'Some people... Some people like cupcakes exclusively, while myself, I say there is naught nor ought there be nothing so exalted on the face of god's grey earth as that prince of foods... The muffin!'

Girl you thought he was a man
But he was a muffin
He hung around till you found
That he didn't know nuthin'

Girl you thought he was a man
But he only was a-puffin'
No cries is heard in the night
As a result of him stuffin'"

Justin I knew that you were being funny
With all those astrological details, you funny bunny.
Details when true, serve the bigger picture.
And if we forget that, we'll make a messy mixture.
So while riding through space upon this planetary host,
The astrological precept that we must remember most:
Us humans, we have freewill,
The stars incline, they do not rule.

But I am just a living fool, 
A such-and-such who don't know much,
A muffin who knows nuthin, who's only puffin.
So don't take me
Too seriously.
Rather:
Worship truth above all else
And come to see it for yourself.


Quote:


Ahh, the cylinder is such a neat analogy. So like the soul, which is both sphere and thread.

And what a question! my goodness me.
And how to answer...hmm...lets see.
But seeing as I'm short of time,
Sadly I must abandon rhyme.

____________________________

Due to short time, this is going to be a rapid type, no spell check or re-read just type and post, so the reader will have to excuse any lack of clarity and make do.

To help clarify our thinking, and make distinctions clearer, I'll propose some definitions by which to proceed and build a picture.

In expanding our comprehension and refining our intelligence, the effort must me both towards the bigger picture and towards the finer details, and inbetween these two is the correct connection/arrangement/threadwork of all the details to make the bigger picture.

As little tasks serve the greater task, not visa-versa, so details serve the bigger picture. To best understand anything, we must start at the bigger picture, as best we can. Those who hold the most accurate and unified biggest picture, ultimately discern the most accurate finer details.   

We do not have to be able to take in the biggest picture, but to believe in it is enough. That is the magic of its effect. To believe in a sum total of all things, even though its infinite, to stretch the mind by this belief that there is a sum total, a unified biggest picture, is the greatest exercise of mind and exercises all its rational and creative faculties. (compare the average IQ of the Ashkenazy Jews and the east Asian Taoists of 105-115 with their centuries of holding and worshiping a God which is a unified bigger picture of existence, to the sub Saharan and Australian natives 65-80 who for centuries have held fragmented Gods most of whom are lesser than the existence they are aware of.) The extent of one's reach of mind and its integration with reality, comprises the potential of one's comprehension. The fineness to which we can discern differences and recognise their relationships is our intelligence, and the correct ordering of these discerned items/facts, that is in their correct adjacencies and additions to each other, towards the bigger picture, is our intelligence and comprehension coming together. Recognising fine differences and their relationships to each other is a long term product of holding a sumtotal big picture. The jews and Taoists didn't train their IQ; it resulted from the effect of their long held belief in a great all encompassing oneness of which all else is divisions.   

Within and under that concept let us define and distinguish.
The first attribute of consciousness is awareness so we start with difining and exercising that.
awareness is awareness of self and surroundings.
the first faculty of awareness is the ability to discriminate/differentiate between one thing and another.
this must be exercised to finer and finer degree. divide all discernments further, divide and divide again. maintain the relationships of the divisions.
Also build, add all ones facts/discernments together towards the biggest picture.
this way one is ordering one's knowledge and maintaining ability to finely discriminate and to hold the bigger picture.
keep in mind knowledge is experience; mark what is known as known.

under and as part of that:

Lets assume the following definitions:
And lets be as tight and pure with our definitions as we can be.

Knowledge, is what we know from experience. Not what we assume from experience, or what we interpret or conjecture, just what we know.
For example, if we hear some one say something, even though we heard it clearly, we only know what we heard, we don't know what they said.
Therefor, knowledge ends with us. Knowledge is our experience, nothing more.
So Knowledge, experience proof are the same, are interchangeable terms. And are us.
Knowledge is what we have experienced, what we have been, what we are.
This definition may narrow down what we think we know to only a small percentage, for we assume to know far more than we have directly experienced. 


Belief is an unknown conviction.

Now we define faith. Faith is not stronger belief, is not belief of a religious type.
belief and faith are like oil and water, they do not mix.
they have nothing to do with each other except they are different from each other and do not mix together or overlap in any way.
Belief is an unknown conviction; faith is the certainty that one has the ability to know.

eg.
1. Belief is a mathematician who believes he knows the answer to a problem before he has worked it out. The likelihood is if he tries to work it out he will keep doing so until he gets the answer he believes in.
Faith is a mathematician who knows he has the ability to work out the problem and find the answer whatever the answer may be.

eg
2. belief is a man believing he knows who many cows are on the other side of a hill; faith is a man who is sure he has the ability to walk over the hill and have a look for himself and see how many cows are there.

faith includes the worship of truth, whatever the truth may be.

curiosity is the open minded desire to know.

faith is like curiosity turbocharged.

Belief tends not to pursue knowledge, because it believes it already knows, it has a preconceived conviction.

faith pursues knowledge. From faith knowledge comes.

faith is certainty in one's own ability to do and to experience / to know.

faith is a stepping stone between belief and knowledge.

strength is strength-to-do; it comes from faith.

faith is certainty in one's own power.

As god is within all life, and is the power of life, the animation of life. The highest and strongest faith in man is faith in god within oneself. Faith is the certainty and realisation of God within and the using and expressing forth in life of God within.

And on its highest level faith is the raw power of God.   
when man knows that God is in himself, then his faith becomes the certainty of God within himself. Faith then becomes the power of God in man. As ultimately is what faith is in man.
Faith is the power of God in man.
Power of God in man realised by man, is faith.

From belief to faith is too big a step for most to take.

there is a step between belief and faith; it is belief in one self; belief in one's own existence.

Belief in self, in ones own existence, is a stepping stone between belief and faith.

It is not irrational to believe in ones own existence, for one can take a reverse bearing, a reference, off one's own thoughts and identify oneself as the observer and the thinker of those thoughts, the consciousness core within.

Just as the eye cannot see itself, it can look for itself over the body but cannot find itself until it takes a reverse reference/ a bearing off what its looking at  and realises it is the one that is doing the looking. The conscious soul is like that; it is the one inside that does the observing of its surroundings, including of the thoughts, the emotions and all surrounding things.

So too, belief in an all inclusive God that is the sum total of all things and forces unified, of which all things and forces are parts of that great whole, is not irrational. This is the essence of the Judeo-Christian God and the Tao, it is also the God of science, the unified theory. Such a belief can be an assumption, cannot be wrong, but keeps on going, expanding ever outward, stretching mind forever.

Between this god and ourself lies all existence. all things ordered in their place. And comprehension and understanding becomes easier because all things unknown become subjecture - lying between what we know. Not outside what we know, which is conjecture. Knowing what lies between two knowns or two assumed knowns is easier because it is a gradient, a scale, a spectrum, between the two, but knowing what is outside of what is known is lesspredicatable. subjecture is safe than conjecture.   
this is part of why when learning knowledge, doing task, we start at the periphery, the bigger picture and work in towards the centre, the detail.

The man who takes on the extreme jobs in his workplace, learns how to perform the less extreme and average jobs and becomes proficient at his entire field of work without having to experience it, for the whole field of his work is within the extremes. The man who works in the centre with the average jobs, only knows how to do them, he cannot perform the extreme jobs because they are outside of his experience, not within it. This is the same with knowledge. This on the greatest scale is how believing in an all-inclucive God primes the mind to take up knowledge, whereas the lesser partial gods limit the capacity. Religion, comprehension and intelligence are related, though naturally this cannot be proved without occult understanding and skill.   

That will do for now, typed real quick and not checked so will have plenty errors/typos,
probably way too much woffle, might clean it up later, so much for shorter posts,

cb

I came back to tidy up the above post because it was such a rushed job and some points are not clear, but the edit/modify button seems to have disappeared.

Crossbow, Quote:



  I'm confused about some of the above.  Are you saying that IQ and spiritual development are directly linked?   

  I don't believe there is a direct correlation.  I've met people whose intellectual development wasn't high or even close to "normal", but whose inner consciousness were very mature Souls indeed.  Sometimes these deliberately take on limited bodies and/or minds.  I'm currently working part time with a young man with severe Cerebral Palsy who is missing a good portion of his brain and is permanently stuck in a 1 to 2 year old mind intellectually.   He is a rather old, mature soul though. 

   Then you have Reptilian E.T.'s.  By our standards, they would have very high IQ's, especially as compared to humans.  What does this signify?

   It is true that if a expanded consciousness chooses to incarnate in a healthy human body, that it will tend to be very bright or perceptive, as a trend (and especially if the culture they are born in assists intellectual development), but again there isn't a direct correlation between IQ and spiritual development, and when you start bringing races of people into the equation, you start treading on limiting ground in over generalizing. 

  Some groups, cultures, and peoples just don't have as much focus on intellect as others.  This doesn't make them less than.  Those same groups with much less focus on the intellect, tend to be more consciously psychic as a trend. 

    If i told you i had a borderline genius IQ (157), would my words and posts somehow be more important or "better"?   Nope, judge it by the energy of same.  There are plenty of high IQ people, who are anything but "spiritual", loving, intune, or who focus on God the One. 

  Crossbow, perhaps you need to more critically and holistically examine your beliefs?  Perhaps developing a relationship with expanded guidance would also help?

  Yes, you are completely right Crossbow, focus on IQ is pretty laughable, i would have to agree.  Why even bring it up to begin with?

   See, i mentioned my IQ in one short blurb not because i thought it was important or it has some kind of deeper meaning relating to spirituality, but because i was trying to point out that it doesn't.  I was arguing as one with a high IQ, that it doesn't signify much at all about spirituality, or beliefs based on UNIFICATION. 

   You know, i bet most of those Nazi scientists had pretty unusually high IQ's as well.   Again, what does that signify? 

    I don't go around talking about my IQ or IQ in general, one because i know it's not important, and two what does it matter on a site about spirituality?   This is probably one of the only times i've ever mentioned it here having been here some 9 years now.  If it's not the only time, then its probably only the 2nd time. 

  You're the one who brought IQ into the conversation as if it was something inherently important or significant. 

  Btw, i wasn't making up that figure--it is extremely rare for me to speak a mistruth in general.  When i was in the latter part of elementary grade school, some Universities and gifted programs started to try to recruit me.  My mom made the choice of not sending me to any such programs since i was too young to make the choice for myself.  In some ways, i think that was a good thing, in other ways, well i was bloody bored throughout all of my school years. 

Well, i more or less agree with the above.  Yet, it doesn't directly relate to what we were talking about, and especially not the points i was trying to make earlier.  I discriminated that using a balance and integration of my "head" and "heart" btw.

  Btw, it's not that i was completely disagreeing with you earlier, but rather i realize how relative these connections and trends are.  It is far too easy to over generalize, and when one starts relating that to different races and peoples, it becomes a tricky and potentially limiting subject because some people will use that as fodder for superiority beliefs based on race, ethnicity, etc.  Some people might associate greater intellect or IQ as something being inherently "better".   

  It also doesn't take into account various variables, like deeper aspects of culture, diet--overall nutrition, and other factors which can affect the intellect as relates to the human brain.   When a body becomes malnourished, or imbalanced, this can lower the IQ of said person.

   Western intellect has made life more comfortable to the body in a lot of ways, but it has allowed for the creation of some major problems and extreme destructiveness too.  Intellect is naught but a double edged sword and tool, it can be used well and it can be very mis used. 

  It doesn't have a lot of worth in and of itself, it's the spirit, the intention, the quality of consciousness behind and within same that matters far more than the tool, and what determines how well or not said tool will be used. 

    I would rather be a low IQ human, but with a kind, simple, childlike, loving consciousness within same, than a very high IQ human whom's informing consciousness is cruel, unkind, intolerant, etc.

  In any case, one can go deeper with some of the metaphors and analogies you used.  For example, "head", what does this really mean?   Most would say "intellect".  Ok, yes i agree that head and intellect can be related.  However, the actual "head" relates to much more than that.  There are two unusual glandular centers within the head that go far beyond intellect and the head as we normally think of it. The Pineal gland and the Pituitary, these metaphysically can be related to VERY expanded states of consciousness. 

  Then, you also have the right brain hemisphere contained within the head, which is anything but "intellect" oriented. 

It might be more accurate to refer to the "head" concept, as more specifically the "left brain hemisphere".   

  What we call "heart", can also be related to the "right brain hemisphere."   

  It can also be related some to the actual heart, but also even to the gut.  Both the gut and the heart contain brain like neurons.  Not well known, but the gut typically has more serotonin in it than does even the brain!  In a sense, we also think with the gut.  But we also feel with the gut.

  And really, all of these analogies are just metaphors for understanding differences in consciousness and processes, particularly in relation to a human and a body.  In reality, Consciousness in and of itself obviously goes beyond these.

  It's just that the body gets patterned, in a symbolic way, after consciousness.

  You wouldn't believe the kinds of connections that can be made between the body and states of consciousness and personality characteristics.  A deeper and holistic study of astrology can reveal much about these "as above, so below" patterns. 

   The Essenes, the group that sought, and had a hand in bringing about, the conception of the Messiah of the last Age, Yeshua, understood some of these deeper correlations as they studied both astrology and phrenology in relation to consciousness and it's relation to the body physical and patterns encoded in same.  The body and patterns can indicate much about the inner character of a person, provided there was not a sudden major transformation/change of livingness recently.

  Perhaps in lieu of this, when speaking about Yeshua and his physical looks, Cayce's guidance commented on the almost perfect shape of his head.  "Perfect" relating to both  ideal symmetry and balance.

   I was fairly often able to figure out a person's rough birth time, from their looks and birthdate--this was provided that the physical birth time and the energetic completion of the entity occurred around the same time (doesn't always happen, unfortunately for astrology and astrologers, it's not uncommon to have an accurate birth time record, but be dealing with an off chart because of this potential difference).