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Re: The Sun working with Chiron (Read 14188 times)
BobMoenroe
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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #15 - Feb 23rd, 2014 at 10:55am
 
I've also noticed the modify button disappearing after a while, but posting an edited version works too.
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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #16 - Feb 28th, 2014 at 3:32pm
 
Crossbow, Quote:
To believe in a sum total of all things, even though its infinite, to stretch the mind by this belief that there is a sum total, a unified biggest picture, is the greatest exercise of mind and exercises all its rational and creative faculties. (compare the average IQ of the Ashkenazy Jews and the east Asian Taoists of 105-115 with their centuries of holding and worshiping a God which is a unified bigger picture of existence, to the sub Saharan and Australian natives 65-80 who for centuries have held fragmented Gods most of whom are lesser than the existence they are aware of.) The extent of one's reach of mind and its integration with reality, comprises the potential of one's comprehension. The fineness to which we can discern differences and recognise their relationships is our intelligence, and the correct ordering of these discerned items/facts, that is in their correct adjacencies and additions to each other, towards the bigger picture, is our intelligence and comprehension coming together. Recognising fine differences and their relationships to each other is a long term product of holding a sumtotal big picture. The jews and Taoists didn't train their IQ; it resulted from the effect of their long held belief in a great all encompassing oneness of which all else is divisions.   



  I'm confused about some of the above.  Are you saying that IQ and spiritual development are directly linked?   

  I don't believe there is a direct correlation.  I've met people whose intellectual development wasn't high or even close to "normal", but whose inner consciousness were very mature Souls indeed.  Sometimes these deliberately take on limited bodies and/or minds.  I'm currently working part time with a young man with severe Cerebral Palsy who is missing a good portion of his brain and is permanently stuck in a 1 to 2 year old mind intellectually.   He is a rather old, mature soul though. 

   Then you have Reptilian E.T.'s.  By our standards, they would have very high IQ's, especially as compared to humans.  What does this signify?

   It is true that if a expanded consciousness chooses to incarnate in a healthy human body, that it will tend to be very bright or perceptive, as a trend (and especially if the culture they are born in assists intellectual development), but again there isn't a direct correlation between IQ and spiritual development, and when you start bringing races of people into the equation, you start treading on limiting ground in over generalizing. 

  Some groups, cultures, and peoples just don't have as much focus on intellect as others.  This doesn't make them less than.  Those same groups with much less focus on the intellect, tend to be more consciously psychic as a trend. 

    If i told you i had a borderline genius IQ (157), would my words and posts somehow be more important or "better"?   Nope, judge it by the energy of same.  There are plenty of high IQ people, who are anything but "spiritual", loving, intune, or who focus on God the One. 

  Crossbow, perhaps you need to more critically and holistically examine your beliefs?  Perhaps developing a relationship with expanded guidance would also help?



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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #17 - Mar 18th, 2014 at 11:34am
 
mumble mumble, scratch bum.
Now where was I when I was last on this forum?
Oh yes, I remember now, I was reading how Justin says he's a borderline genius with an IQ of 157   
he he haw haw cough cough ... gasp ouch hernia oow ...  haww ha ha cough choke snort giggle-fit piss pants
Breathe, calm, relax, composure, that's better. whew. Ah you're good for a laugh Justin.

Now where to start? Something general.

I described intelligence above, but lets have another go at it because the borderline genius with the 157 IQ seems to have misunderstood it. 
(smile - you set yourself up for that one Justin. I can see I'm going to have trouble restraining myself after you've put your foot in it like that. I'll try to make that my last joke on the matter....or maybe I might let another one or two slip out.)

Intelligence is the extent of scope of one's awareness divided by the degree of fineness to which one can discern and evaluate differences, combined with one's degree of ability to see the lines of connection and relationships between things discerned.

Or put another way,
Intelligence is one's degree of ability to discriminate and generalise.
(Have a look at any standardised IQ test and you will see nearly every question item is a test of one's ability to generalise and discriminate, by requiring the sitter to group 3 or 4 articles and separate one, or to select one from several, to complete a pattern. The more similar the articles, the finer is the degree of discriminating ability required.)

Or put yet another way,
Intelligence is the acuteness of sight and the extent of the field of vision of the mind's eye, coupled with the power of observation.

IQ, being the fineness of ability to discriminate and generalise across all mediums, manifests as relationship recognition, pattern selection, and problem solving and creativity.
It is not education, but is the potential for education. 

Oh, by the way, of course there are always exceptions to any group or pattern, and to cite such exceptions as a proof/evidence/example of no pattern is not evidence of intelligence but of a belief.   

As well as Ashkenazy Jews and north east Asians, many western atheists who believe in a single "grand ultimate" that is inclusive of all existence, such as a unified theory or a theory of everything, also have high IQs. (though not as high as the two first mentioned groups and I speaking averages of course) These three groups have their awareness, understanding and knowledge ordered in a similar way.

Of course there are no true atheists, for everyone has a grand-ultimate, that is, something they value, live for and make their decisions according to. And many people's grand ultimate is partial, that is, does not encompass everything they are aware of or experience, so there are things outside of it which they have to deal with without its guidance upon their choices; or they may have several competing or conflicting grand ultimates, causing inconsistency in their thought and behaviour. Their decision making is inconsistent, their knowledge is not ordered into one structure, and the mental-emotional patterns and flows of their personality do not easily blend.

A high intelligence is a wide awareness and fine discriminating ability (which automatically includes generalising ability) with acute relationship recognition, and across any medium, because it is centred in the awareness/consciousness.

A fine intellect (which is the interplay between intelligence and mind) emerges from fine intelligence, and the intellect is enabled by well ordered knowledge, of which the greatest enabler of is one's outlook on creation/existence, and one's imagined/believed order of greatness down to smallness, for this enables learnt knowledge to fall into its rightful place and for facts to be ordered in the mind as they are in reality.

So we see that belief, outlook and intellect are related.

Also, (despite what the anti-IQ/discrimination/generalisation-proEQ brigade say) IQ expresses itself through all mediums, including the emotional and inter-personal medium. IQ manifests as problem solving and that includes interpersonal and relationship problems.

Spirituality is essentially indicated in our attitude to others, our dealings with others, the way we approach and manage our relationships and deal with inter-personal matters, and IQ expresses through this medium just as much as through every other.   

So we see that belief, outlook, relationships, spirituality, intellect and IQ/intelligence are related.

And by the way, IQ is the variable that most consistently correlates with other individual and group variables relating to achievements, abilities and circumstances. Don't believe me, study it yourself; there are over one hundred years of studies and scientific papers available in libraries and on the internet.
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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2014 at 1:35pm by 1796 »  
 
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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #18 - Mar 18th, 2014 at 2:57pm
 
  Yes, you are completely right Crossbow, focus on IQ is pretty laughable, i would have to agree.  Why even bring it up to begin with?

   See, i mentioned my IQ in one short blurb not because i thought it was important or it has some kind of deeper meaning relating to spirituality, but because i was trying to point out that it doesn't.  I was arguing as one with a high IQ, that it doesn't signify much at all about spirituality, or beliefs based on UNIFICATION. 

   You know, i bet most of those Nazi scientists had pretty unusually high IQ's as well.   Again, what does that signify? 

    I don't go around talking about my IQ or IQ in general, one because i know it's not important, and two what does it matter on a site about spirituality?   This is probably one of the only times i've ever mentioned it here having been here some 9 years now.  If it's not the only time, then its probably only the 2nd time. 

  You're the one who brought IQ into the conversation as if it was something inherently important or significant. 

  Btw, i wasn't making up that figure--it is extremely rare for me to speak a mistruth in general.  When i was in the latter part of elementary grade school, some Universities and gifted programs started to try to recruit me.  My mom made the choice of not sending me to any such programs since i was too young to make the choice for myself.  In some ways, i think that was a good thing, in other ways, well i was bloody bored throughout all of my school years. 
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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #19 - Mar 22nd, 2014 at 5:29am
 

It is important that we exercise and develop both head and heart.

Awareness, discernment, discrimination, intelligence, intellect, are in the head, and require our knowing what they are and exercising them.

And love, forgiveness, thankfulness, faith, are in the heart and require our knowing what they are and exercising them. 

As the physical heart nourishes the brain, so the heart centre nourishes the head; but the head directs the heart.

Although the true measure of any person is the condition of their heart, for their heart is what they really are; it is their head that directed them there, for decisions bring us to where we are and where we will be.

The driver's seat is in the head; the engine is the heart.

There is steerage and there is power; there is direction and there is force.

We must learn to operate the head and heart together.

Wisdom is intelligence and love combined.
 
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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #20 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 12:24am
 
Well, i more or less agree with the above.  Yet, it doesn't directly relate to what we were talking about, and especially not the points i was trying to make earlier.  I discriminated that using a balance and integration of my "head" and "heart" btw.

  Btw, it's not that i was completely disagreeing with you earlier, but rather i realize how relative these connections and trends are.  It is far too easy to over generalize, and when one starts relating that to different races and peoples, it becomes a tricky and potentially limiting subject because some people will use that as fodder for superiority beliefs based on race, ethnicity, etc.  Some people might associate greater intellect or IQ as something being inherently "better".   

  It also doesn't take into account various variables, like deeper aspects of culture, diet--overall nutrition, and other factors which can affect the intellect as relates to the human brain.   When a body becomes malnourished, or imbalanced, this can lower the IQ of said person.

   Western intellect has made life more comfortable to the body in a lot of ways, but it has allowed for the creation of some major problems and extreme destructiveness too.  Intellect is naught but a double edged sword and tool, it can be used well and it can be very mis used. 

  It doesn't have a lot of worth in and of itself, it's the spirit, the intention, the quality of consciousness behind and within same that matters far more than the tool, and what determines how well or not said tool will be used. 

    I would rather be a low IQ human, but with a kind, simple, childlike, loving consciousness within same, than a very high IQ human whom's informing consciousness is cruel, unkind, intolerant, etc.

  In any case, one can go deeper with some of the metaphors and analogies you used.  For example, "head", what does this really mean?   Most would say "intellect".  Ok, yes i agree that head and intellect can be related.  However, the actual "head" relates to much more than that.  There are two unusual glandular centers within the head that go far beyond intellect and the head as we normally think of it. The Pineal gland and the Pituitary, these metaphysically can be related to VERY expanded states of consciousness. 

  Then, you also have the right brain hemisphere contained within the head, which is anything but "intellect" oriented. 

It might be more accurate to refer to the "head" concept, as more specifically the "left brain hemisphere".   

  What we call "heart", can also be related to the "right brain hemisphere."   

  It can also be related some to the actual heart, but also even to the gut.  Both the gut and the heart contain brain like neurons.  Not well known, but the gut typically has more serotonin in it than does even the brain!  In a sense, we also think with the gut.  But we also feel with the gut.

  And really, all of these analogies are just metaphors for understanding differences in consciousness and processes, particularly in relation to a human and a body.  In reality, Consciousness in and of itself obviously goes beyond these.

  It's just that the body gets patterned, in a symbolic way, after consciousness.

  You wouldn't believe the kinds of connections that can be made between the body and states of consciousness and personality characteristics.  A deeper and holistic study of astrology can reveal much about these "as above, so below" patterns. 

   The Essenes, the group that sought, and had a hand in bringing about, the conception of the Messiah of the last Age, Yeshua, understood some of these deeper correlations as they studied both astrology and phrenology in relation to consciousness and it's relation to the body physical and patterns encoded in same.  The body and patterns can indicate much about the inner character of a person, provided there was not a sudden major transformation/change of livingness recently.

  Perhaps in lieu of this, when speaking about Yeshua and his physical looks, Cayce's guidance commented on the almost perfect shape of his head.  "Perfect" relating to both  ideal symmetry and balance.

   I was fairly often able to figure out a person's rough birth time, from their looks and birthdate--this was provided that the physical birth time and the energetic completion of the entity occurred around the same time (doesn't always happen, unfortunately for astrology and astrologers, it's not uncommon to have an accurate birth time record, but be dealing with an off chart because of this potential difference).

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Re: The Sun working with Chiron
Reply #21 - Mar 23rd, 2014 at 8:37am
 

Many people can't tell whether they disagree with something or dislike it.

Because they can't tell the difference between their emotions and their intellect.
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