http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/27/a-real-life-demon-possession-is-being...

R

Don-

In cases with genuine demonic possession, would "sending" PUL to the demon(s) have any effect?

r

Don-

In cases with genuine demonic possession, would "sending" PUL to the demon(s) have any effect?

r [/quote]

Your question brings us to a dangerous assumption.  If we assume that the victim is possessed by a discarnate human, then sending PUL might have an effect.  But if the entity is truly demonic, then the distinguishing characteristic is the presence of pure hatred, a searing energy that makes the possession more convincing than any paranormal activity could ever do.  At that point, what exorcists call "the clash" is essential to recognize.  One invokes the power of God or Christ to expel an entity that has no respect for love and is not subject to reason or empathy.  No "negotiation" is possible.  In the real case inspiring the movie, "The Exorcist" an well-meaning but inexperienced Lutheran tried his hand at exorcism and was badly hurt by the superhuman strength of the entity working through the boy. 

Then there is the problem of what real PUL is and whether the wannabe "sender" is engaging in a mind trip that massages his self-image, but has nothing to do with real PUL. 

Don

First of all, I read the book about the real Exorcist story (and other articles), and it took a number of tries before the exorcism process worked. I also read an interview with Father Amore (he does exorcisms), and he said it can take a couple of years for the process to work (sorry, I don’t remember the precise time period he stated). I’ve also read of other occasions where more than one session had to take place before the process worked.

One would think that if an Exorcist truly evoked the power of Christ the process wouldn’t take so long. If you go by the gospel stories, Jesus was able to expel demons with one attempt.

It is important to remember that God, the Christ Consciousness level, and “love” aren’t separate from each other. Therefore, there is no need to think of love so lightly.

It is also important to remember that all Souls are innately divine, even the ones that become demons, whatever that means. I say “whatever that means” because people tend to have concepts about demons without really knowing what they are.

No Soul would choose darkness over God’s love if it truly understood the difference.  If you could cleanse a demon’s negative energy sufficiently enough, it would be able to see its own light and connection to God sufficiently enough so that it could choose wisely. I’m not saying it’ll become a light being right away, but it’ll move in a positive direction so it can progress. I have reasons for believing this is possible (I became aware of cases where this took place).

If an Exorcist takes the misguided approach of trying to send a demon to hell for all of eternity, he won’t be taking an approach that is in line with Jesus’ prodigal son story.  He won’t be taking an approach that is based on wisdom-based compassion that honors all Souls, even those that go astray for a while.

Even if an Exorcist gets a demon to leave with a go to hell approach (perhaps by annoying it with repeated attempts), the demon is likely to return or find someone else to possess.

As long as the possessed person doesn’t change his ways for the better, he might get possessed again.

On the other hand, if a demon is changed for the better it won’t try to possess somebody again. The more you get demons to change for the better, the less even people with negative attributes will get possessed, because there will be fewer demons to do so.

Not sure how accurate this report is, but interesting ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547224/EXCLUSIVE-A-portal-hell-Police-c...

Don:

I believe what you said relates to the first post I wrote.  If a person is committed to God and his loving way and allows himself to be changed and inspired accordingly, then he will be a vessel for God's love and light, and will be able to accomplish spiritual tasks that other people won't be able to accomplish.

I don't believe such growth tends to happen automatically. I used to meditate and feel a lot of energy but not a lot of divine love and peace. The more I've grown spiritually the more I've been able to experience divine love and peace. I believe that a part of being able to do so is having a selfless service oriented approach to life.

It is also a matter of having an attitude of humulity towards the being that makes our existence possible. I'm not into doing that worship thing, but I believe that God existed by himself before he created all of us, and he is a being worth having good feelings for (I think of God as a dear friend I care dearly about, his happiness matters), and I am grateful for the gift of life. I've noticed that if I feel grattitude the amount of divine love and peace I feel increases.

Yes, we all come from God, from his own being, are pieces of him, yet I believe people make a mistake when they walk around saying I am God without having any thought for the first being that figured things out sufficiently enough so he could make existence possible for the rest of us who came "later."

rondele wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:01pm:


So it is, same events different papers- thanks for pointing it out.

I remember reading that ES said that there used to be non-human based demons, but they were gotten rid of. I don't remember how, if I remember correctly, he wrote that Jesus got rid of them. I'm not certain which book, but probably Heaven and Hell.

Even if what he wrote is true, things could've changed since he lived.

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 6:01pm:

Consider the esorcism that inspired the movie, "The Exorcist."  The young boy had superhuman strength.  He was strong enough to rip out bed springs with his bare hand and stab a well-meaning, loving Lutheran pastor who came in the namo of love but was inexperienced in such matters.  His physical injuries made him realize he was in way over his head and Jersuits were summoned instead, who realized no loving negotiation or reasoning is possible with a true demon.  So at the right time, "the clash" was effectively employed; and since the boy's mind had been temporarily realized enough to say "dominus", the Latin word for "Lord" and to take Communion, the exorcism wqs finally effective and consumated by a loud explosion with blue light heard across the street! 

Also, my cousin Eldon (now a psychiatrist and expdert on pain medications)  was possessed as an innocent 3-year-old, the moment his minister Dad (my uncle George) had successfully exorcised a woman in a house.  Eldon knew nothing about demons; he was waiting outside in the car with my aunt Ruth.  When the exorcism was completed, Eldon's eyes rolled up in his head, so that only the whites were visible and he screamed uncontrollably for a long time.  Only after continuous prayer for protection for several minutes was he released from this entity.  He now recalls that as his parents fervently prayed, he had a vision of Jesus cradling him in His arms. 

Then I think of well-documented shamanistic curses that kill innocent victims on the other side of the world.  Scott Peck reports that the victims in the exorcisms he witnessed were very spiritual souls. 

Don

I think we're in agreement that negative influence, possession could happen, but it might be more productive to discuss how to avoid or prevent it from happening. 

To me, the bottom line is to grow up by letting go of fear and becoming love, because then you will have the power to be in control of your intent, have the ability to be fearless and not allow any kind of ego attachment or negative connection to take place.  This is true power.  This is the power Jesus demonstrated.

You could also if you choose to, keep a "force field" around you such as using a metaphor such as wrapping a cocoon of white light around you as RAM suggested, but being sufficiently evolved is enough.  Metaphors can help us to focus our intent so they can be very useful.

If one has fear, beliefs, ego attachments, etc., then that person may become an easy target for being influenced by all kinds of things in ELS such as salesmen, hustlers, politicians, advertising, peers, etc., etc.  The same goes for influence, or possession, from the non-physical.  If you have fear and attachments "they" or "it" can find and access you.  However, if you are fearless, have control of your intent, then very little, if anything at all that is negative will be more powerful than you are.

Kathy

Talking about fear reminds me of something Mike Tyson once said about "plans."  He said the best of plans go out the window right after the first punch.

Meaning, of course, that even when we think we are prepared we don't know for sure until we are tested.

Speaking for myself, I would like to think I wouldn't be fearful if confronted with something evil, but I would not bet money on it.  Even Scott Peck, in his book People of the Lie, was confronted with people who frightened him and he was a trained and experienced psychiatrist.  Plus the fact that these were humans, not disembodied demons or demon-like entities.

I seriously doubt that if Peck tried to "send" love to those patients it would have had any affect whatsoever except perhaps enraging them.

R

But the concept of demonic possession seems to throw up more questions than answers. Why for example are cases of apparent demonic possession so highly correllated to specific time and places ? I'm thinking of examples such as Salem in the late 17th C or modern areas of religious fervour such as within the charismatic christian community. I live in a relatively secular part of the world where demonic possession is pretty much unheard of but I don't think that is because people around here are any more spiritually advanced than people with religious sentiment. To me this points, in a large way, to the power of belief systems - particularly the overriding belief in an ongoing cosmic battle of good v evil which is at the heart of traditional Christianity.We have many tales of hauntings and supernaturality locally but they are simply interpreted differently i.e not as examples of demonic possession.

Much of the time fear does stem from our beliefs.  Fear makes us uncomfortable, so we try to avoid it by manipulating our inner and outer worlds.  Fear is an emotion.  One that causes us to feel confused and unable to think clearly.  Fear makes us feel nervous, shaky, weak and panicky, and fear may cause us to act inappropriately to a situation.  Fear is the problem.

Being fearless means that you will be able to use your intellect in productive ways such as having control of your intent and acting with courage and determination to rebuke any negative force, physical or otherwise that tries to access or manipulate you.  If the negative force has a stronger intent than you do, then you may not succeed, however, being fearless greatly optimizes your chances of coming out of a situation unscathed.  So it's not necessarily about trying to send love/PUL... it's about being fearless in the face of adversity.

However, if your intent to send love/PUL makes you fearless, that could be one useful strategy.  If you use your intent to create an impenetrable shield around yourself and that makes you fearless, that could be another useful strategy.  If you are someone who has evolved a high quality of being/consciousness, then you are naturally, innately fearless.  You are the embodiment of PUL.  Not many, if any of us can truly 100% claim that status, but it is the most useful objective to grow towards.  And we can only accomplish improvement when our intent stems from fearlessness... courage, determination, patience, kindness, caring and of course, love.  If we are all those things at the being level, fear has no power over us, nor does any kind of negative force.  The power of God flows freely from deep within.  It is not blocked or distorted by fear, ego, or attachments we cling to in an attempt to keep ourselves safe.  We know we are safe by the absence of fear, which allows the power from within to up well and radiate forth.  That power is protection in and of itself.

Kathy

Kathy:

It seems as if we wrote our last posts at about the same time. I agree with much of what you wrote. One shouldn't underestimate the value of letting go of fear and living  according to love instead. Some say faith can move mountains. If you have faith in love (PUL), you have faith in God.

I think a working model of consciousness is required to understand what may happen in possession.  Otherwise, this topic tends to only stoke fear, and often those who post will make assumptions such as the following:  that 1. demons are beings beyond are powerful non-human beings ken or defense and that 2.  only a priest and divine grace can save the person afflicted.

A working model of consciousness lets us view this in a more rational light.  That is to say, that if our true nature is not in the physical plane and we are all pure thought or consciousness that gets inserted into bodies in the physical world, then is it possible to leave your body or be displaced by another's consciousness? 

It certainly does not appear to be common.  Whatever bonds we have  with our physical body appear to be strong.  We also appear to have free will and are usually able to choose where we go.  So how could we be displaced in our earthly "clothes" (the body)? 

One way certainly could be if we are convinced of a lie.  Often, there has been an association of the possessed with the use of ouija boards - devices where the user is to invite a spirit to use his or her hands and enter their body to spell out a word.  This invitation may start a game for control of the physical body.  The person displaced may be extremely open to suggestion.  I would venture to say that the person's goodness or evil actions have little impact on their ability to be displaced. 

The background of the person to be displaced and their belief systems may also be crucial in knowing their ability to be displaced.  Thought or will coupled to belief or conviction appears to affect every aspect of our lives, manifesting things into the physical world, and guiding our spiritual development. 

The person to be displaced may enter into an agreement with the possessor, or may believe most deeply in the lie that they are subdued and powerless.  Of course this type of domination happens in the physical world by some domineering people over the gentler souls - we've all seen it before.  But in possession, if and when it does occur, there likely must be a dynamic relationship between the two personalities involved in control for the physical body. 

Rather than marvel at the paranormal feats of strength, I think it more appropriate to keep in mind the nature of consciousness; that our true nature is not the physical body;that our thought coupled with belief manifests our will, and that love is the true foundation of our being and the only morality that means anything.   Given this working understanding of consciousness, one can conceive of ways to interact both with the displaced consciousness and the destructive or "demonic" consciousness. 

I agree that aiming PUL at the demon seems both artificial and self deluded, though truly cultivating the feeling of love, and certitude in whatever ceremony takes place, would appear to be crucial.  However, making contact with the person who is subdued and feels powerless may be helpful as well in asserting their powerful connection to the physical plane and no longer seeing themselves as helpless. 

The fear that comes up in these discussions coupled with the rarity of true possession, makes it a tough area to tackle on a forum.

Doc said: "I agree that aiming PUL at the demon seems both artificial and self deluded, though truly cultivating the feeling of love, and certitude in whatever ceremony takes place, would appear to be crucial. "

Recoverer responds: "How do you know it's deluded? Have you ever tried it? As I said on earlier post, people including myself have found that sharing love with an unfriendly being can be effective.

Such an unfriendly being has two choices, 1) decide that it is interested in experiencing love and hang around, or 2) decide that it isn't interested and split the scene.

It's really something how people put down things such as Disk experiences and dealing with unfriendly beings by sharing love with them, simply because they haven't had such experiences. Would it be fair for a person to say that NDErs are deluded, simply because such a person hasn't had an NDE?

The emotional energy that a person or being radiates can be felt. Perhaps some negative beings are afraid of the light/love.

Regarding "aiming" I've found that as soon as I have the intent to send/share love with a unfriendly being, the amount of love I experience increases.

Does anyone know enough about the energetics of PUL to know whether it is something that can be sent?

Perhaps it would be best to focus on experience based answers rather than intellectual/belief system-based conclusions."

"Recoverer responds: "How do you know it's deluded? Have you ever tried it? As I said on earlier post, people including myself have found that sharing love with an unfriendly being can be effective. "

Doc responds:

Albert, what I meant to say was the idea that one can imagine PUL and channel it like a flash light from one's chest to make the bad guys go away is a bit of a delusion.  I am a believer in love, but I am one of those who believe that the term is bandied about to loosely.  There are truly loving people out there and those who can project love - but the average person probably isn't that able to spontaneously project love in a willing manner and in a frightening situation - eventhough many would like to believe it can be done. 

M

Doc:

Right, I believe some of the things I said ealier on this thread relate to what you say below. Nevertheless, going by the info I received and what makes sense to me, we do have freedom of choice, and if we choose a positive way of being an unfriendly being won't be able to stop us from doing so.

DocM wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 11:13pm:

A very interesting quote from another site with an excerpt from the Dead Sea Scrolls. 

"The text, called the "Testament of Amram", describes the experience of a person named Amram in which "an angel and a demon" were wrestling over his soul:
'I saw Watchers] in my vision, the dream-vision. Two [men] were fighting over me. I asked them, ’who are you, that you are thus empowered over me?’ They answered me, ’We [have been em]powered and rule over all Mankind.’ They said to me, ’Which of us do yo[u] choose to rule [you]?’ I raised my eyes and looked.

[One] of them was terrifying in his appearance, [like a s]erpent, [his] cl[oak] many colored yet very dark. ... [And I looked again], and ... in his appearance, his visage like a viper. ... [I replied to him,] ’This [watcher,] who is he?’ He answered me, ’This Wa[tcher,] ... [and his three names are Belial and Prince of Darkness] and King of Evil.’

What makes this testament even more intriguing is the fact that this little-known character named Amram is quite an important personage.

Amram, it turns out, was the father of one of the most famous contactees in history, the man who delivered the Jews from slavery in Egypt. This person is, of course, none other than Moses!"

    The above person doesn't mention it, but i think it's mentioned in the Testament of Amram that the other "watcher" whom was fighting the reptilian-humanoid being was none other than the ArchAngel Michael.  Essentially, they were both were trying to influence the man, Amram, but towards very different ends. 

To me, this is more like what happens in real possession rather than the usual hollywood type, super dramatic type stuff.  More like subtle influencing, trying to get us off track, to make poor choices which hurt or limit ourselves or others.  To skew us, especially in a spiritual and belief system way.

  We live in an interesting reality, and these Reptilian E.T.'s have long been with us, trying to influence us, and have done quite a good job if you look around.  Why think you there are so many references to snakes/serpents in both the OT and the NT?   

   So many of us are all too easy to manipulate, fool and deceive.  Even those of us more spiritually centered and more closer or consistent in attunement to PUL occasionally get influenced, if only temporarily. 

   Heck, these beings show up in so many different cultures and tales in some form or another across long periods of time, and many of us refuse to even believe they exist, let alone seriously contemplate them having a strong influence here.  Let alone contemplate if self is ever influenced or manipulated. 

  Even in modern research these beings have shown up, during laboratory DMT testing.  Not too mention the many people who have experienced E.T. contact or abductions.

  Read an interesting account of a American who went to South America and took some ayahuasca under tutelage of a blind shaman.  During his experience these Reptilians tried to convince him that they were the creator beings of humans, etc, etc.  After, he told the shaman about the experience and the shaman said, "oh, they're always saying stuff like that."  When asked what they were and where they come from, the shaman looked up and pointed at the sky and at the stars.

  First step in not being influenced anymore, is to become conscious of the factors and variables influencing you.  2nd is to ask for help from beings/groups/levels more powerful and positive than self.  3rd is live your life in a positive, spiritual manner with PUL ever as the leading light and ideal. 

  However, unlike discarnate humans with a chip on their non physical shoulder and who are and can be indiscriminate in who they try to connect to, influence, etc, and are rarely more than just meddlesome, the E.T. ones don't tend to focus on the average Joe or Jane.  They focus on people that can either materially or spiritually have an influence in the world.  They focus on very slow vibrational people in positions of influence and power materially, and they focus on spiritually intune people who can make a difference in the world for the better.  And they focus more in a group way, which amplifies, and they already have a better understanding and manipulation of psychism and mind than most humans.  Which is why most humans who get focused on by them, it's usually a necessity to appeal to higher powers than just their own Disk/Higher self.