Conversation Board - Possession?

Rondele Ex Member	Possession? Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:59pm http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/27/a-real-life-demon-possession-is-being... R
Back to top	IP Logged

Berserk2

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 844
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #1 - Jan 28^th, 2014 at 5:26pm

Rondele,

When I was a theology professor at st. Beonaventure U, my office was next to Catholic exorcist's office. On Monday mornings, I learned to think twice about asking how his weekend went. Alphonse would sometimes report handling cases as spectacular as the one in your article. Strangely, he generally attributed such cases to psychokinetic effects rather than to demonic activity. He personally knew the exorcist involved in the case that inspired the horror movie, the Exorcist and conceded that that case was a genuine possession.

In one of his cases, a teenager often creuated small house fires when he was upset. in another case, a teenager's emotional outbursts created "water bombs" falling from the ceiling. T his even happened in a restaurant. Early on, the family called a plumber who ran from the house yelling, "You don't need a plumber; you need an exorcist!" I disagree with Alphonse; I think spirit activity was involved in both these cases.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged

Rondele Ex Member	Re: Possession? Reply #2 - Jan 28^th, 2014 at 6:52pm Don- In cases with genuine demonic possession, would "sending" PUL to the demon(s) have any effect? r
Back to top	IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #3 - Jan 28^th, 2014 at 9:23pm

Whenever I've sent love to an unfriendly being it stopped trying to bother me.

Regarding sending love to a possessed person, would it have an effect? I believe it would be a matter of how much love a person shared.

If a person was spiritually developed enough so he could connect to a high level of being, his attempt might have an effect.

If a person hasn't developed himself accordingly, well, if he has a limited ability to connect to divine love himself, how is he going to be able to share it with someone else to a significant degree?

I doubt that Jesus waived his fist at possessed people and told the demons, "you better get out or I'll kick your but!"

Rather, he was probably able to share something far beyond such a show of machoism.

Back to top

IP Logged

Berserk2

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 844
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #4 - Jan 28^th, 2014 at 11:58pm

Don-

In cases with genuine demonic possession, would "sending" PUL to the demon(s) have any effect?

r [/quote]

Your question brings us to a dangerous assumption. If we assume that the victim is possessed by a discarnate human, then sending PUL might have an effect. But if the entity is truly demonic, then the distinguishing characteristic is the presence of pure hatred, a searing energy that makes the possession more convincing than any paranormal activity could ever do. At that point, what exorcists call "the clash" is essential to recognize. One invokes the power of God or Christ to expel an entity that has no respect for love and is not subject to reason or empathy. No "negotiation" is possible. In the real case inspiring the movie, "The Exorcist" an well-meaning but inexperienced Lutheran tried his hand at exorcism and was badly hurt by the superhuman strength of the entity working through the boy.

Then there is the problem of what real PUL is and whether the wannabe "sender" is engaging in a mind trip that massages his self-image, but has nothing to do with real PUL.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #5 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 12:35pm

But how would one know it was 'genuine demonic possession' ? If we assume that people don't initially change that much on crossing over then a Josef Mengele or a Lavrentiy Beria i.e. a sadistic psychopath will still be a malevolent individual out of the physical. If we also assume 'that like attracts like' then couldn't that malevolence be amplified when, like sharks scenting blood from an injured fish, other discarnate psychopaths are drawn into the unfortunate's locality ? From that side of the veil they also might have learned a few psychic tricks for good dramatic effect. A good reason not to play with Ouija boards !

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #6 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:02pm

First of all, I read the book about the real Exorcist story (and other articles), and it took a number of tries before the exorcism process worked. I also read an interview with Father Amore (he does exorcisms), and he said it can take a couple of years for the process to work (sorry, I don’t remember the precise time period he stated). I’ve also read of other occasions where more than one session had to take place before the process worked.

One would think that if an Exorcist truly evoked the power of Christ the process wouldn’t take so long. If you go by the gospel stories, Jesus was able to expel demons with one attempt.

It is important to remember that God, the Christ Consciousness level, and “love” aren’t separate from each other. Therefore, there is no need to think of love so lightly.

It is also important to remember that all Souls are innately divine, even the ones that become demons, whatever that means. I say “whatever that means” because people tend to have concepts about demons without really knowing what they are.

No Soul would choose darkness over God’s love if it truly understood the difference. If you could cleanse a demon’s negative energy sufficiently enough, it would be able to see its own light and connection to God sufficiently enough so that it could choose wisely. I’m not saying it’ll become a light being right away, but it’ll move in a positive direction so it can progress. I have reasons for believing this is possible (I became aware of cases where this took place).

If an Exorcist takes the misguided approach of trying to send a demon to hell for all of eternity, he won’t be taking an approach that is in line with Jesus’ prodigal son story. He won’t be taking an approach that is based on wisdom-based compassion that honors all Souls, even those that go astray for a while.

Even if an Exorcist gets a demon to leave with a go to hell approach (perhaps by annoying it with repeated attempts), the demon is likely to return or find someone else to possess.

As long as the possessed person doesn’t change his ways for the better, he might get possessed again.

On the other hand, if a demon is changed for the better it won’t try to possess somebody again. The more you get demons to change for the better, the less even people with negative attributes will get possessed, because there will be fewer demons to do so.

Back to top

IP Logged

Berserk2

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 844
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #7 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:21pm

recoverer,

The effectiveness of an exorcism is analgous to the effectiveness af faith healing. Both often depend on the faith of the saint trying to intervene. Thus, Agnes Sanford writes that when her baby grandson was terminally ill, she and her prayer group prayed for a long time in vain for healing. Tben one day, a young seminarian paid her a visit, saying he had heard about the baby's condition and wanted to pray for the baby's healing. Agnes admitted initially feeling a bit resentful at his insinuation that his prayer would be effective when hers and her group's were not. After all, she was a published expert on prayer. But she felt obligated to let him try. He lifted the baby in his arms, the light of confident faith shone in his face, and the baby was instantly healed! Evidently, the inexperienced seminarian had achieved the "beginner's mind" essential for preventing "trying" to believe, the death knell of effective healing. Jesus insisted on the need for childlike faith.

When my friends' son Austin, was oppressed apparently by a demon, two Pentecostal exorcists tried unsuccessfully to exorcise the demon. Then a Nigerian Catholic priest was summoned who dealt with the demon quietly and decisively.
No more light in the closet of the darkened bedroom! No more unseen hands ripping off Austin's blankets in the middle of the night! The faith and quality of the exorcist's relationship with God is important to the effectiveness of prayer and exorcism, as is the will of the possesssed person.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: Possession? Reply #8 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm Not sure how accurate this report is, but interesting ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547224/EXCLUSIVE-A-portal-hell-Police-c...
Back to top	IP Logged

Rondele Ex Member	Re: Possession? Reply #9 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:57pm Don- I'm uncertain as to exactly who these demons are. Are they entities that once lived as humans, or are they a different breed of cat? I'm trying to recall what ES discovered about evil entities. I know he wrote about it. R
Back to top	IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #10 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:58pm

Don:

I believe what you said relates to the first post I wrote. If a person is committed to God and his loving way and allows himself to be changed and inspired accordingly, then he will be a vessel for God's love and light, and will be able to accomplish spiritual tasks that other people won't be able to accomplish.

I don't believe such growth tends to happen automatically. I used to meditate and feel a lot of energy but not a lot of divine love and peace. The more I've grown spiritually the more I've been able to experience divine love and peace. I believe that a part of being able to do so is having a selfless service oriented approach to life.

It is also a matter of having an attitude of humulity towards the being that makes our existence possible. I'm not into doing that worship thing, but I believe that God existed by himself before he created all of us, and he is a being worth having good feelings for (I think of God as a dear friend I care dearly about, his happiness matters), and I am grateful for the gift of life. I've noticed that if I feel grattitude the amount of divine love and peace I feel increases.

Yes, we all come from God, from his own being, are pieces of him, yet I believe people make a mistake when they walk around saying I am God without having any thought for the first being that figured things out sufficiently enough so he could make existence possible for the rest of us who came "later."

Back to top

IP Logged

Rondele Ex Member	Re: Possession? Reply #11 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:01pm heisenberg69 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm: Not sure how accurate this report is, but interesting ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547224/EXCLUSIVE-A-portal-hell-Police-c... Heisenberg- same story I posted at beginning of thread. R
Back to top	IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #12 - Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:30pm

rondele wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:01pm:

heisenberg69 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 2:56pm:

Not sure how accurate this report is, but interesting ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547224/EXCLUSIVE-A-portal-hell-Police-c...

Heisenberg- same story I posted at beginning of thread.

R

So it is, same events different papers- thanks for pointing it out.

Back to top

IP Logged

Berserk2

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 844
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #13 - Jan 30^th, 2014 at 6:01pm

Rondele,

ES identifies "demons" as discarnate humans. I think he oversimplies. But the dual categories of angels and demons are also oversimplied. For example, the Bible actually acknowledges the existence of a third category, "elemental spirits." This category is lined to astrological forces and seem controlling and mischievous, but not necessarily malevolent. In my view, UFO beings are not beings from distant galaxies, but beings from parallel universes. Perhaps they should be categorized as a type of elemental spirit. Nowhere, does the Bible explcitly identify "Satan" as a fallen angel. So I prefer to think in terms of negative energies of varying degrees of power and malevolence. Such distinctions only become practically important when some imagine that sending PUL is an panacea solution. In my view, that ploy only works, if it works at all, when the entity in a discarnate human.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Possession?
Reply #14 - Jan 30^th, 2014 at 7:06pm

I remember reading that ES said that there used to be non-human based demons, but they were gotten rid of. I don't remember how, if I remember correctly, he wrote that Jesus got rid of them. I'm not certain which book, but probably Heaven and Hell.

Even if what he wrote is true, things could've changed since he lived.

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 6:01pm:

Rondele,

ES identifies "demons" as discarnate humans. I think he oversimplies. But the dual categories of angels and demons are also oversimplied. For example, the Bible actually acknowledges the existence of a third category, "elemental spirits." This category is lined to astrological forces and seem controlling and mischievous, but not necessarily malevolent. In my view, UFO beings are not beings from distant galaxies, but beings from parallel universes. Perhaps they should be categorized as a type of elemental spirit. Nowhere, does the Bible explcitly identify "Satan" as a fallen angel. So I prefer to think in terms of negative energies of varying degrees of power and malevolence. Such distinctions only become practically important when some imagine that sending PUL is an panacea solution. In my view, that ploy only works, if it works at all, when the entity in a discarnate human.

Don

Back to top

IP Logged