Mogen,

Read my last post carefully.  I believe Karma is a real force, like gravity - as long as we are on the see-saw side of life.  Push-pull, the polarity of opposites.

Quite simply, Karma is a Newtonian law of spirit.  For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, spiritually.  So what you send out in thought to others comes back to you one way or another.  This is why, to some extent, a person's circumstances usually perfectly reflects their inner thought.  This takes a great deal of openness and contemplation - at least it has for me- to understand.

Once we get in touch with love, the foundation of our being, and stop acting out of ego related urges and fear, I believe we remove ourselves from the wheel of karma.  If love directs our thought and actions we send and give love out, and we transcend the polarity of opposites that fuels the karmic wheel.

M

DocM wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 11:45pm:


Don't patronize me Doc.

DocM wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 11:45pm:


I think that is no more dogmatic from what I have read in the books of JR.

So as for the dogma's that you are so concerned about I think you are pretty much as dogmatic as what I have read in those books.



Mogenblue

DocM wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 12:04am:
What is worth more than teachings on love?    Only love itself.

Matthew speaks of true love.  And its good to see love referred to as love.

The most essential things for us to understand are love and self and truth. 

Our relationship to truth and love is the only relationship that matters.
If we look after that relationship then all our other relationships look after themselves.   

Some things are absolute, definite. And those who know them, by way of experience and living proof should not vague them down. The listener has freewill.

Some speak from experience/knowledge/proof - and these three words when used strictly should be interchangeable.
Some use pure reason, the weighing up of known facts.
Some use sensible conjecture, weighing presumed facts in the conscious knowledge that they are presumed, to test their fit with reasonableness, and wisely hold them lightly.
Others use false reason, the concocting and dressing of thought as reason to suit a preference, emotion or belief.
Most surmise, which is good, for it may stretch the mind and exercise imagination, but is only good when we know we are surmising. Otherwise it ventures into fantasy, a slipping from attachment with reality, which may lead to a disengagement from reality, which is insanity.
And of course we have all practiced all of these.
As long as we are conscious of what we do, and conscious of when we cross a border from one function to another, then we are fairly safe. That is honest observation of our self.

For it is a fact that venturing to recover souls by mystic means, leave the body, communicate with non-incarnate beings, and other such practices is occult science and craft, and requires precision handling of one's mental and emotional equipment, of one's consciousness in all its aspects, and of one's heart.
If we don't have precision handling of our equipment, and knowledge of our component parts, their functions and interactions, and we venture into occult craft then we are children playing with fire.      

Some who use this site are merely passing by the subject matter, or have not the force of mind and soul to press into its reaches, but some here have the qualities, can perceive or sense the angles, and have the strength to do. Usually in life the more skill and potency, the greater the mistake when it comes. 
       
This thread is about spiritual falls. Serious occult students should study how falls occur. 
Any one of us can so easily fall, and in any one of millions of ways. And should a fall occur, we will not see it coming, it will surprise us. And we will wonder how on Earth it happened. That's even if we are conscious of it.
There is no burden in all the universe greater than the burden of freewill. All other burdens are subject to it and just an exercise for it.
And freewill is always fallible, no matter what degree of competence it has achieved.
And people on this site are using their freewilled consciousness to delve into some of the most subtle, slippery and hazard prone regions that exist.
And we answer for our self. We cannot blame another for anything we say or do or think or feel. And no phantom spirit guide who we might have listened to will step up and take the blame for us. No employer, husband, wife, or partner, no parent, no one answers for our self except our self.
We of all people, if we are to make progress in this science and as souls in life, we must accept and fully understand this. Not a grain of unaccountability for our self is permitted to exist in us. Every thought, attitude and motive, we must watch and face, share with God, and correct it as we can.
Our conscience will have the final say to us and we to it, and if we are smart then as of now we will heed our conscience and our own best judgement. We accept our own freewill and all that that entails. 
 
We start off safe guarding our self by being honest to our self, facing our self and our surroundings as they are, without preference, fancy, or superimposition; and being conscious of our functions; proceeding carefully; and most of all including love to the maximum extent that we understand it and can move it through our heart, in all parts of our life, our thinking, speaking and acting.   

For the mechanically minded: Love-forgiveness is an energy that absolves the packages of thought-emotion that comprise the personality. These packages are energised each time they pass through our consciousness/soul. They are the mental-emotional-behavioural habits and inclinations of the personality, and their cycles are the driving pistons of the engine of consequence, what some call karma. These packages/constructions of ours and of others are absolved by love-forgiveness; their driving energy transmuted and their structure dispersed back to the elements, they are gone. What we forgive in others, we cure in ourselves, and relieve others of their struggle too. But always there is an imprint left, a susceptibility to slip back and re-create and re-energise the old package and its pattern/habit. Love-forgiveness must be maintained. Warning. What we do not forgive in someone else, the equal of that very thing we will commit our self, but for what we think is a different reason. For what we don't forgive in another, our thinking shapes it and strikes its note upon the vertical spectrum-keyboard of our soul, and due to the absence of forgiveness-light from heart, that note is struck in darkness, it resonates, the layers of mind, emotion, material move little by little to accommodate it, and eventually it will have its expression, regardless of our thinking we would not indulge it, yes we will. The pistons in our soul that drive the engine of consequence (what some call karma) cannot be stilled by anything but love-forgiveness.
The law of consequence is subject to the law of love. 

I cannot prove to others what I say. And saying how I know these things, counts for nothing and doesn't matter. I suggest the reader does not believe or disbelieve, but weigh it up yourself. Follow your conscience and best judgement. If something you read or hear correlates with your already acquired knowledge, or rings a note that resonates with your conscience, then tentatively hold it, lightly, test its compatibility with your conscience and best judgement, test it against reason, against love, then live it and prove it for yourself.

We are students of truth. There is no way forward but alone in responsibility and accountability, with help from others and by helping others yes, and with God yes, but in our responsibility and accountability we are alone. That comes with our freewill. 

crossbow
          

Hi Roger,

I don't think Matthew and I disagree.  He perhaps went into more detail than I did.  What I meant is that a biological mental illness, and I include a sociopath in this category, just as a physical brain injury could, likely would, place a constraint on someone's consciousness.  Thus a person with such a handicap could, likely would, have a more difficult time making choices that are loving in nature. 

Certainly this can and does affect the state of their being for better or worse.  Once they let go of the body, the biological handicap is no longer present, however, the outcome of their choices and how those affected their personal consciousness would continue to be a part of their overall makeup at the being level.  Or in other words, the person would still have within their consciousness all that had transpired as a result of the mental illness, but the person would no longer be subject to the constraints that had been held within the brain because they no longer have a brain/body.  Does that make more sense?

Kathy

Those who do not accept and understand freewill, and who try to be altruistic towards others, can do none other than make excuses for them.

Examples above.


crossbow

Roger,

My basic underlying theme is that we are pure thought, pure consciousness as our essence.  Although brain structure and chemistry play a role in disease, it is (to me) like a mechanical radio or TV - a receiver of consciousness.

Therefore, the postulation that a loving well meaning child will start killing animals and then become a serial killer due to a genetic predisposition, does not ring true  (to my way of thinking).  There is consciousness, intent and then manifestation in the physical world.  If we take the radio or television analogy, we may damage the device which plays and get static, or a distorted picture, but the actual broadcast (radio or television plot) would not be altered. 

Now I do think that a loving soul could be born into a circumstance such as a crime ridden part of the third world, where life is cheap, and be encouraged to take a life, kill, etc.   But the person is still fundamentally a person. If they did give into their surroundings and circumstance and kill,  they would know/feel that it was wrong.  They wouldn't keep on killing if their primary nature is loving.  They would feel a need to atone for what they did (one way or another) and to rehabilitate themselves or change their situation.  This is much akin to someone in an astral purgatory. 

Although I am a trained in medicine in the US, I do not believe that physical brain injury and/or neurochemical imbalance is the underlying cause of many psychiatric disorders.  I think that psychiatry denies the existence of spirit and spirituality, and that many neuroses and psychoses are directly related to a person's repetetive thought patterns that center around their earthly ego.  While neurochemistry may play a role here, it is much less importat than in understanding the thought patterns themselves, and the use of the person's intent, and free will to manifest their current life situation. 

M

Sure it's possible to communicate with unfriendly beings, but that doesn't mean it isn't also possible to communicate with friendly beings.

Certainly Swedenborg wasn't so special that he is the only person who has ever had the ability to communicate with friendly beings.

Regarding love, if you're in contact with a being and it radiates love and peace, well, chances are it is friendly. 

What if there was a person who never took the time to talk to people, and a person who spent a lot of time talking to people, both friendly and unfriendly? Which of these two people would be more likely to understand what talking to people is about?  Obviously the former.  Perhaps the same is true when it comes to people who communicate with spirits.  It can't be known what it is like if one hasn't spent time doing so.

It's important to remember that there are many beings that at the core aren't different and separate from us.  To remain separate from them is to some degree the same as remaining separate from the divine Oneness they are a part of.

I for one don't want to empower the unfriendlies by allowing them to determine whether or not I communicate with friendly spirit beings. If I were to do so the unfriendlies would win due to my lack of courage, faith in the friendly beings that exist, and myself.

Of course disrimination is always needed. How does one gain discrimination about things of this World? By using it. Perhaps the same is true when it comes to communicating with the spirit World.

What are people going to do after they die? They'll have no choice but to interact with spirit beings then.


rondele wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 12:13pm:

Don- So glad to see you here, and hope this is just the beginning of many posts to come.

I am intrigued about your thesis on afterlife evolution and look forward to hearing more about it.

Welcome back!