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Fallen angels ?? (Read 51528 times)
Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #60 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 3:12pm
 
1796 wrote on Dec 10th, 2013 at 8:16am:
Hello Frits.                     

Do you believe there is such a thing as a spiritual fall?

And if so, do you think that one way such a fall may come about is by misuse of sex?


Hi crossbow,

Yes, I certainly think a spiritual fall is possible. But it is important how to look at it, how to understand it.
In my understanding a spiritual fall means that a spirit has met with lower spirits and somehow that higher spirit still had some character traits in him/her that made it possible that he/she would get seriously involved with those lower spirits.

When you get seriously involved with lower spirits in such a way that you cannot return to your higher sphere anymore, because of being involved too strong, you can speak of a spiritual fall.
So actually you can see it as being faced with some lower character traits of yourself which you had not laid off yet.

Misuse of sex may very well be such a reason, among others. People can certainly be overwhelmed by the emotions that may be freed in sex. But I do wonder if sex with a lower spirit is so fullfilling as sex with a spirit of your own level. Because a spirit of a lower level has less love to give.



Frits
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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #61 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 3:15pm
 
Quote:
Howdy Carl. An author makes a living as with any profession, and a reduced income can indeed happen to anyone. Very basic stuff. But I'm wondering if you know what the imagination technique is about? Have you tried it? Have you tried other techniques?

Crossbow, nice to see you around, cobber. Thought about you the other day with the forum as a backdrop, and here you are. Btw, what does your conscience think?


Carl, never argue with a fool. They will drag you to their own level and then beat you by experience.


Have a good day,
Mogenblue
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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #62 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 3:30pm
 
Crossbow,

I actually think that a spiritual fall is a sort of common practice in the afterlife.
Here on earth it's easy to think that you go from dark to light. When you think about it in such simple terms you are apt to believe that the transition is done in one complete wholesome step.

From what I have come to understand that is never the case. Never at all.

You gradually build up a higher consciousness. A person has a variety of character traits and they all need to be of the same level to fully take a sphere into your possession. But you have to do that all by yourself. You have to work on that.

So because of that it always goes step by step. And because of that you may enter a point where you have access to a higher sphere and think you have made it. But human as you are, there are always some aspects in yourself that you are not aware off and that still need to be worked on. And those aspects are what cause a spirit being to fall back to a lower sphere.

By being confronted time and again with those lower aspects and working on them until you have overcome them all there will come a moment where you will finally take a higher sphere fully into your possesion.

And then the process continues for the next higher level....   Smiley


Frits
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BobMoenroe
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #63 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 3:56pm
 
Quote:
"Carl, never argue with a fool. They will drag you to their own level and then beat you by experience."

Congrats Mogy, your keyboardian expression has attained multi-dimensional proportions, irony wise. Smiley

Quote:
"Here on earth it's easy to think that you go from dark to light. When you think about it in such simple terms you are apt to believe that the transition is done in one complete wholesome step. From what I have come to understand that is never the case. Never at all."

Pretending to be light is wholesome fun, but it's a plateu of complacency. The roads lead onwards towards balance.
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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #64 - Dec 10th, 2013 at 4:11pm
 
Quote:
...


q.e.d.
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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #65 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 1:58am
 
Crossbow,

With respect to conscience I would like to refer what Kathy said before:
Quote:
And as long as we maintain a love-based intent in all of our interactions, we not only produce spiritual growth within us, but we also contribute to the spiritual well-being of the whole of creation.


It is the intent with what you do anything that matters.

If a spirit of light would have sex with a lower spirit to enable that lower spirit to have sex in a more elevated way, to experience more warmth and other higher emotions in sex then I think that higher spirit is actually doing a good job.

I think the higher spirit is then serving and loving a lower spirit. The lower spirit may benefit from this by experiencing that it is possible to have sex in other ways as well. Perhaps even in ways it has never experienced sex before.
Thus it may try to find ways to make that way of loving and having sex it's own. To internalize that wisdom and those capabilities, and to make it fully their own.

It is all about the intent.



Frits
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1796
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #66 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 2:20am
 
Frits,
Thank you for taking the time to provide those detailed answers.
I found your description interesting of how a spiritual fall may occur and how it may involve sex.

I agree. Different parts of our self require attention and correction as different times, and in our correcting of our self is risk. Old errors, unfinished business, missed opportunities, tend to come around again and again, along with new ones too, and with every opportunity to put things right is also an opportunity to put them further wrong, to further mix up what we might have fixed up.

The laws of building our self are no different from the laws of building anything. The laws of physics are the laws of mind.

I had a read of some of your forum too. And about Jozef Rulof. An interesting fellow.

crossbow
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1796
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #67 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:42am
 
Quote:
...Crossbow, nice to see you around, cobber. Thought about you the other day with the forum as a backdrop, and here you are. Btw, what does your conscience think?

Thanks Bob.
Yeah, funny about that, coz I've been "thinking" about this forum for a week or two, and about you Bob, and others too.
Well then the other day I goes an gets the idea in me coconut to blow in and chew some fat with ol' cobbers.
So here we all is, and about three years wiser too. 
I'll answer that query later, after I've thought about what not to write.
In the meantime I would like to read your thoughts on the same questions.

crossbow
 
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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #68 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 10:19am
 
1796 wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 2:20am:
I agree. Different parts of our self require attention and correction as different times, and in our correcting of our self is risk. Old errors, unfinished business, missed opportunities, tend to come around again and again, along with new ones too, and with every opportunity to put things right is also an opportunity to put them further wrong, to further mix up what we might have fixed up.


Yes, people are free to go either way. They can try to do things right when a new opportunity comes around, but they can also mess things further up.
I think that is why it is important that people understand that it certainly does matter which way you choose.

There has been one person in history who was excellent equipped to explain that to us. Unfortunately he was put to the cross because people were not ready for His Message.
Yet today His Life inspires millions and millions of people around the world.



Frits
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DocM
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #69 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 2:06pm
 
It doesn't matter so much the choices you've made in the past, so much as where your consciousness has evolved to in the ever present.  If your actions were hateful, but you have seen the light, and changed to act out of love (spontaneously, without prompting) that is all that matters.  The notion of karma is funny to me.  Because it is a real force as long as we are on the see-saw of it.  Once we realize our divine nature and act in and out of love, we are off the karmic wheel - through love. 

One should never act out of fear of being punished in a hell or not getting to a heaven.  Because fear is the opposite of love, and "acting" good, is not the same as understanding deep down in your core/being that love underpins all of us.  So letting love shine, and acting right because it is the only sane way to act is my ultimate goal. 

I tend to somewhat ignore retrieving aspects of oneself.  Why?  Well for me, this unnecessarily complicates the situation.  We are really one with God and the universe.  We incarnate into a body to experience a "separate" existence.  Now you would ask me to split myself again into 1000 shards, and look for any lost pieces through a retrieval?  I don't think so.  I would rather work toward a global/general level of expressing love, and let those little shards or pieces of me melt away when they finally realize that they were not separate at all.


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Mogenblue
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #70 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 2:40pm
 
DocM wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 2:06pm:
The notion of karma is funny to me.  Because it is a real force as long as we are on the see-saw of it.  Once we realize our divine nature and act in and out of love, we are off the karmic wheel - through love. 


Doc,
if you don't believe in Karma (Cause and Effect) then you probably don't pay taxes either. Is that right?
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #71 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 3:54pm
 
I would like to ask a general question. How does mental illness go along with these ideas? Perhaps you know someone who has or has had a type of mental illness...a depression, a bipolar illness, some other kind of disorder which affects that person's thoughts, emotions and behaviors. For some people it might be temporary and for others it might be a lifelong struggle. That person might do something to harm others after a mighty struggle with themselves that would seem herculean to you. Where does the line start? A small illness, a larger illness...how can a person possibly even begin to judge themselves or others without a much more profound understanding of our motivations than we currently have?

Sometimes it seems to me that we speak of all kinds of "karma" and "levels" when we can barely understand why we do what we do. I find it puzzling, after a long time on this planet.

It seems to me, yes, the self-searching can be a good thing, but in the end, I hope to find an afterlife which includes those sorts of beings who have a fuller understanding of all of "this" than I have found here on earth.
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Rondele
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #72 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:03pm
 
A related question regards people are who sociopaths, including serial killers who feel no remorse for their victims.  In fact they derive extreme pleasure from inflicting suffering on others.

So they die and go through the life review.  Supposedly this review requires the person to not only see the things he/she did while alive but to feel the emotional pain they caused in others. 

A great learning tool.....except for a sociopath who would no doubt get pleasure from knowing how much suffering he caused.  Seems to me the rationale for the life review is a great concept for quote/unquote "normal" people but for those who are mentally damaged I'm not so sure.

r
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #73 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:20pm
 
Hi Seagull,

If we are consciousness, and I think that we are, then this means that our consciousness is not "stored" in our brain.  The brain then becomes the means by which consciousness is constrained.  Someone with depression, bipolar, etc. simply has more constraints to work through than someone without these illnesses.  Bottom line is your intent when interacting with others and the environment.  This is what changes our inner being for better or worse.  Just because someone has a mental illness, including severe mental illness doesn't mean that they cannot choose loving intent over a fearful intent.  It may be more difficult to do so, but in my opinion these souls in most cases have chosen to make things more difficult for their own reasons based on what they feel will benefit them the most in their own personal evolution.  Though I imagine that may not always be the case.

Upon death, our consciousness is no longer constrained by our brains.  That doesn't mean that we know everything there is to know, but the limitation of the mental illness would no longer be present.

Not sure if this helps or not, but this is currently my understanding.

Kathy
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Re: Fallen angels ??
Reply #74 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 9:25pm
 
I believe that a sociopath would have to learn about the value of respecting and caring for others before a life review would have value.

I also believe that all Souls have the ability to respect and care for others. 

That said, something would need to be done in order to remove a sociopath's resistance to viewing others with love and respect. It might be easier to do this when one is a spirit because it is possible to comprehend more when one isn't limited by a biological brain.  There is also the factor of how the energy of love includes not only a very positive feeling, but also wisdom.

rondele wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 5:03pm:
A related question regards people are who sociopaths, including serial killers who feel no remorse for their victims.  In fact they derive extreme pleasure from inflicting suffering on others.

So they die and go through the life review.  Supposedly this review requires the person to not only see the things he/she did while alive but to feel the emotional pain they caused in others. 

A great learning tool.....except for a sociopath who would no doubt get pleasure from knowing how much suffering he caused.  Seems to me the rationale for the life review is a great concept for quote/unquote "normal" people but for those who are mentally damaged I'm not so sure.

r

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